Paladin vs Armsman

[Moryen]

Hi,

I was just wondering, in a duel, would a sword/shield paladin, or 2 handed armsman win, cause i've not had a chance to duel an armsman my level and i'm just interested to know the results, if those paladin chants/blocking pays off

Thanks

 

[Tualatin]

Generally pala has the better chances, but that's by no means sure you'll win.

There are ofcourse exepsions;

S&S vs S&S
-pala has active RA's (has bb), armsman passives, and specd 50/50/28 - Outcome 60:40 for pala i'd say
-if pala has defensive RA's.. he wins (or should)

S&S vs 2h
-High RR armsman (50/50/28) could win from you, but unlikely when ur RR4 or higher

S&S vs pole
-again, full pole makes it hard.. just dont use styles for a while




But in RvR, pala is a real gimp... their end chand makes them viable.. but due to expensive Purge & IP palies lack these most of the times, while armsman does have cheap access to em, thus they take em sooner. Also dmg / hp's / weaponskill is better on armsman, not to forget Determination.. which a pala CAN'T have.

So;
solo (RvR or PvE) chose a palie.
group (RvR) chose an armsman imo.
group (PvE) take a palie.

 

[Sibanac]

Basicly a paladin stands a good chance against any tanks.

Scouts a doable, infis are verry hard unless you use purge
Mincers are right out of the question

 

[josh_dk]

Hmm, my pally (Redlock) is S/S specced and I have never lost a duel with a melee char.

As a matter of fact I won some duels over a lvl 50 armsman when my pally was only lvl 46.

But then again - he has been using crafted gear since lvl 20

 

[ReaLX]

Armsmen with passive RA's are capable of beating a paladin I think... at least I used to beat some pallies when i was specced passive...

 

[necrofill]

Originally posted by josh_dk
Hmm, my pally (Redlock) is S/S specced and I have never lost a duel with a melee char.

Have u ever dueled a friar?

 

[Sibanac]

Originally posted by necrofill
Have u ever dueled a friar?

frairs are doable, its mincers that are hard as nails to beat

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

If the pally is S&S spec, I would put my money on the pally as long as he does not try to use styles on the pole armsman (others does not matter).

If the pally is a 2-handed gimp, he is going to die.
But duels are utterly different, in rvr you want a pally for end, and the rest mercs/armsman.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Moryen]

Thanks, why is it not a good idea to use styles on the paladin vs the polearm, i always thought using a style when you could is always beneficial, or do you mean use engage till they run of end or something? lol

 

[Pin]

Duel me, duel me!!

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by Moryen
Thanks, why is it not a good idea to use styles on the paladin vs the polearm, i always thought using a style when you could is always beneficial, or do you mean use engage till they run of end or something? lol

Mostly due to Defenders rage, a lvl 34 polearm style that the armsman can use after their target uses a styled move.
Low fatigue, high damage, and high attack bonus (guess to hit bonus). Makes you bleed (not that that matters so much, 3-4 damage while the hit does about 300+ I think)

 

[Jiggs]

in duel terms reavers are prolly the toughest, did some tests with tildai once and they seem to block more than paladins (!) in duels.

i think i've only ever lost to one paladin, gwalmar, but that was before i completed my SC, since then i've beaten every paladin i duelled with friar gwalmar and regtur being the hardest fights

i even beat aligro despite his lame use of alchemy dex potion, damn he is lame

 

[Kagato.]

It depends, if the paladin has mastery of blocking and is careful with his styles then the pally has a good chance to gradually wear down the Armsman if its a poler.

But in return most polers who duel alot will be looking out for this and wont be wasting there endurance on anytime styles either, personally when fighting someone who refuses to use styles i'll respond with Executioner parry-follow up styles instead.

However lower RR s/s paladins will probably have alot of trouble due to the high weaponspec of the armsman giving them much higher weaponskill, making it alot easier to get through the blocking.

I tend to find I either kill the paladin terribly easy and come away without a scratch, or I simply never get through the blocking with both styles in the stun-chain and the tables are turned.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Jiggs
in duel terms reavers are prolly the toughest, did some tests with tildai once and they seem to block more than paladins (!) in duels.

Reavers tend to have 30-40+ more dex than Paladins, with the same shield spec, so yes, we block more.

 

[asillan-zipi-2]

duel s/s pally VS 2 hand arms :


pally puts heal chant on does stick , and goes afk for coffe or some thing. comes back and wins

 

[pinball]

A full offensive polearm using Defenders rage (my case) dosent ever get blocked really and after Defenders rage lets u use defenders revenge (stun style) then run to back use phalanz defendes aegis. Problem is when ur fighting palas they tend to have a faster atack rate so its hard to use complicated stlyes properly so what i do stand still out of combat till they style then whack em with Defenders rage

 

[Tualatin]

Originally posted by asillan-zipi-2
duel s/s pally VS 2 hand arms :


pally puts heal chant on does stick , and goes afk for coffe or some thing. comes back and wins

you think, 28 parry (spec) gives you rather high chance when you got all the bonusses... their 50/50 offensive spec really can make you bite the dust.. atleast on low RR and epic armour..


It's all about the moment of duel, because duels are never equal. Some peeps have much probs with infils (i dont) etc etc.. You cannot really compare these classes as they are totally different. You will find that out when you're 50 and go RvR...

 

[kenshee-himura]

Originally posted by Tualatin
Generally pala has the better chances, but that's by no means sure you'll win.

There are ofcourse exepsions;

S&S vs S&S
-pala has active RA's (has bb), armsman passives, and specd 50/50/28 - Outcome 60:40 for pala i'd say
-if pala has defensive RA's.. he wins (or should)

S&S vs 2h
-High RR armsman (50/50/28) could win from you, but unlikely when ur RR4 or higher

S&S vs pole
-again, full pole makes it hard.. just dont use styles for a while




But in RvR, pala is a real gimp... their end chand makes them viable.. but due to expensive Purge & IP palies lack these most of the times, while armsman does have cheap access to em, thus they take em sooner. Also dmg / hp's / weaponskill is better on armsman, not to forget Determination.. which a pala CAN'T have.

So;
solo (RvR or PvE) chose a palie.
group (RvR) chose an armsman imo.
group (PvE) take a palie.

Depends what your role is in RvR. Armsman is primary dmg dealer while a paladin is a living PBT for casters/clerics.
Purge is indeed somewhat expensive but @ R3L4 already avaible if you keep your points.
IP is useless to a paladin imho. Since he's defending he's not exposed to direct dmg threads (PBAE, possible nukes).
So he has no use for a 100% self heal.
Now comes the advantage of a paladin Faith Healing.
Somewhat a joker and can save your grp from a fast death.
Not having determination is bad ofc but the more experienced tanks try and avoid AE mezz (not always possible ofc).
I for instance break formation from grp the second i see an nmy make a big sway to right or left and then engage incomming targets. Works most of the time I have to say.
Tbh paladins are a must in a good grp can't say the same for a armsman

 

[Javai]

Person who thinks Paladin is a gimp in rvr hasn't played one properly.

Ok you won't see your name in lights much cos your damage output is relatively low but without the paladin rest of tanks are ooe ofter one target and also hit like wet fish. Add to that that the Paladin is one of best at defending whichever character you want them to and you got alot of utility on one char (bit of a novelty for Albs).

With the block/parry fixes in rvr I like my Paladin either as a cleric guard or if we running a decent tank group set up I like to be up front guarding MA giving him constant endurance and slamming whatever he picks out to die

Tbh a scout can do same job as a 2-hand or pole slashed Arms in a group

Edit: Actually Scout can do it better cos they can inflict damage while stood next to the cleric and slam anything that decides it wants to attack it

 

[wolfofslaughter]

any melee class who has ever faced a pally in a duel knows they are tough bar stuards.

s&s pally normally beat armsmen and mercs hands down ant going to go into why its just how it is.

If you wanna win duels dont pick a arms i know i am one.

 

[Tualatin]

A palie is pretty useless because WHEN you are mezzed, even insta mezz.. you still have to w8 the whole time (no purge @ lower RR's) and never determination.. in that time your healer can be down.. same goes for stun and root. Palie is needed for his guard abilities, but try defending cleric/caster when mezzed/stunned.. Also, when mezzed you aint passing thru your END chant, so useless palie then.. neither can u fire Faith Healing.

You need one palie in a good RvR grp, but when using two you're decreasing your survivabilty dramasticly.

 

[Kagato.]

Originally posted by pinball
A full offensive polearm using Defenders rage (my case) dosent ever get blocked really and after Defenders rage lets u use defenders revenge (stun style) then run to back use phalanz defendes aegis. Problem is when ur fighting palas they tend to have a faster atack rate so its hard to use complicated stlyes properly so what i do stand still out of combat till they style then whack em with Defenders rage

When everything is going perfect, yes thats how it is, specially against low RR paladins, but when your dealing with higher RR paladins with mastery of blocking 2, you'll be pulling your hair out with frustration at how many times you land your Rage style just to have you stun follow-up Revenge blocked every time.

Theres still an awful amount of of luck in involved.

And just because Rage/Revenge has high bonus to hit, it makes 0 differance to there chance to block you. Only your weaponskill effects that, the bonus to hit wont factor into it till its already made the evade/block/parry checks.

 

[ReaLX]

Originally posted by Tualatin
you think, 28 parry (spec) gives you rather high chance when you got all the bonusses... their 50/50 offensive spec really can make you bite the dust.. atleast on low RR and epic armour..


It's all about the moment of duel, because duels are never equal. Some peeps have much probs with infils (i dont) etc etc.. You cannot really compare these classes as they are totally different. You will find that out when you're 50 and go RvR...

http://semperfidelis.madeo.nl/screenshots/duels/tualatin.jpg



aug dex and mastery of blocking + reactive proc on shield helps a LOT versus paladins

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by Javai
Person who thinks Paladin is a gimp in rvr hasn't played one properly.
[cut]
Edit: Actually Scout can do it better cos they can inflict damage while stood next to the cleric and slam anything that decides it wants to attack it

Think all agree everybody wants a pally in their group, thing is, one pally is enough, fill up the other spots with arsman and mercs.
Scouts are nice, guard very well, slam is pretty cheap endurance wise due to small shield, but they also lack the determination like Paladins do.
Regards, Glottis

 

[kenshee-himura]

Originally posted by Tualatin
You need one palie in a good RvR grp, but when using two you're decreasing your survivabilty dramasticly.

Depends what the rest of grp is.
Had a nice GG once :
2 wizz (1 fire , 1 ice)
1 theurg
2 paladins (me and greg)
1 mincer
2 clerics

It took 3fg hibs to take us out and still we kicked some of em
2 paladins really can extend casters life specially with FH and good active guard/intercept

 

[Powahhh]

pala got the endu chant which is very handy in a duel......
they do not hit for much (unstyled i do a bit less dmg than a styled pala)
BUT when i go unstyled i have no to hit bonuses and that way arms fall into the defences of pala....
pala has 99% chances to win against an arms...unless he do nto know to twist or he haven't learn that palas got endu chant now

in general rvr pala are only for endu and protect the cleric/sorc with slam
notin else
imo ofc

 

[Javai]

Originally posted by powahhh


in general rvr pala are only for endu and protect the cleric/sorc with slam
notin else
imo ofc

Try a tank group with Pally stuck to merc guarding and slamming

 

[Moryen]

Armsman and Paladins have the same hp scale, right? Or not...

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Moryen
Armsman and Paladins have the same hp scale, right? Or not...

no. paladins have the same hp scale as other hybrids (reavers, champions, thanes, skalds), but get Con as primary stat (raises every level) so end up with more than those classes (still nowhere near Armsmen or Mercs).

 

[old.Tijl]

just hit engage anytime you hit the oponent (style - engage - style after you block oponent - engage ...), you'll block everything and end up full health most of the time, beaten a full buffed minstrel like this. with crush the 'after block style' is a nice thing to have