Pain, an Emotion or Sense?

[psyco]

after watching the latest episode of Ghost Whisper, from America... i discovered one of old favourite bands(3 Days Grace) has released a new Album/Single, titled Pain... this got me wondering(i have weird thoughts like this)

Pain,
an Emotional response to a physical action, ofc Emotional pain is an Emotion
or
your body letting you know its in distress(not 'dis dress>.<), a Sense... baring in mind we don't have 5 senses, we have 30+ to name 2, Equilibrium and knowing where the light switch is when you cant see

i believe its Emotional, let me take a moment to explain...

when someone touches you, you sense its presents... its heat, pulse, velocity and shape
but when your in pain, you also sense its presents... heat, pulse, velocity and shape

the only difference in this case would be velocity(taking a punch, and a gentle fist tap)... and i cant think of any reason why the velocity would matter in your physical response...

putting a poll in thisflame: inc) but its something that is genuinely caught my interest, dont worry though, will expire in a week... to prevent endless bumping

 

[Thorwyn]

the only difference in this case would be velocity(taking a punch, and a gentle fist tap)... and i cant think of any reason why the velocity would matter in your physical response...

Because you can hit a churchbell with a chopstick and with a two handed hammer and the reaction will be different in both cases. Of course, the velocity has a direct influence on the reaction, because the nerves are signaling damage.
If pain was emotional, then why would it be possible to anaesthesize (which is 100% a physical effect) complete body parts and merrily cut around on them without you feeling any pain? Or why would you stop receiving emtional signals once you broke your spine and are paralyzed?

 

[Chosen]

Because you can hit a churchbell with a chopstick and with a two handed hammer and the reaction will be different in both cases. Of course, the velocity has a direct influence on the reaction, because the nerves are signaling damage.
If pain was emotional, then why would it be possible to anaesthesize (which is 100% a physical effect) complete body parts and merrily cut around on them without you feeling any pain? Or why would you stop receiving emtional signals once you broke your spine and are paralyzed?

It's true what you say here, but then again there is also the emotional pain, like getting dumped So imo, you should add one more option too the poll that states both!

 

[Thorwyn]

It's true what you say here, but then again there is also the emotional pain, like getting dumped So imo, you should add one more option too the poll that states both!

Yes, of course!
But that´s a completely different thing and I think that´s not what psyco wanted to discuss here. Of course, we can make assumptions about how physical damage (i.e. sensual pain) will also damage the mind. What does this one quite say? "It´s all connected. Pull out a hair from your butt and you´ll get a tear in your eyes."

 

[psyco]

Because you can hit a churchbell with a chopstick and with a two handed hammer and the reaction will be different in both cases. Of course, the velocity has a direct influence on the reaction, because the nerves are signaling damage.
If pain was emotional, then why would it be possible to anaesthesize (which is 100% a physical effect) complete body parts and merrily cut around on them without you feeling any pain? Or why would you stop receiving emtional signals once you broke your spine and are paralyzed?

cause,
when anaesthetizing... there's 3 seperate drugs/chemicals used, witch a specialist administers, one to numb, one to knock you out, and one that stops your brain from functioning properly, there's many case's where patience's suffer during major surgery's... they are injected separately... and are continued throughout the operation(this is a surgical hotspot), unless you mean local, that just numbs the area... this would also block the emotional response, one would assume... once the effects have worn off, the pain aspect catches up... even though its hours past the event
when you are paralysed, from a car accident or something... the spine carries all the nerve endings to your brain, without that connection the 'physical response' cant reach the brain.

i don't think i explained the 'physical response' part properly... when you get hurt(the physical part) the area of effects send the brain that it need help, and displayed as an emotion(pain)... although, admittedly, this is my greyspot in the matter... or a better way to explain it when you get injured there are 2 different actions occurring, pain and hurt... hmm that didn't work, im not very good at explaining stuff like that

also people have different pain thresholds, like anger

furthermore, the old adage 'there is nothing to fear but fear its self' may come in useful here

It's true what you say here, but then again there is also the emotional pain, like getting dumped So imo, you should add one more option too the poll that states both!

indeed, i stated that in the post

ofc Emotional pain is an Emotion

----

this got me thinking... the opersite of pain, is pleasure, is that an emotion:-/

 

[Thorwyn]

unless you mean local, that just numbs the area... this would also block the emotional response, one would assume

Yes, I was talking about local anesthaetics. And no, that doesn´t effect your emotional responses. You can still solve mathematical equations, get a boner or talk about your deepest fears while lying on the denists chair.
That´s exactly where I think my point is valid. You can cut off all pain by injecting a substance that´s just affecting a VERY limited area of your body and NOT your brain (where we can assume the origins of emotions).

when you are paralysed, from a car accident or something... the spine carries all the nerve endings to your brain, without that connection the 'physical response' cant reach the brain.

Yip. Exactly. And without this connection, we can´t feel pain. So it has to be a sense, because a broken spine doesn´t affect your ability to have emotions.

or a better way to explain it when you get injured there are 2 different actions occurring, pain and hurt

Ah.. now I think I start to understand what you´re aiming at. You mean that an injury causes a. a feeling (pain) and b. a reaction (stop that, get away, mute the crazy frog)? That´s certainly correct, but that´s the idea behind all this I think. As I see it, pain is always an attempt to let your CPU know that your body is in an uncomfortable or dangerous condition and that you should do something to stop that. The reaction of the brain respectively the emotion is what you´re classifying as "pain" but I disagree. The pain already occured in step 1 and, IMO, is a purely physical thing. Now.. fear is a completely different thing yet again. That´s even more complex.

Interesting topic nontheless...

 

[Elftor]

blah blah blah

Reminds me of this town "idiot" when I was a kid... Guy was wearing shorts all year long, riding his bike everywhere.. Couldnt walk very well and had a slight speach problem... He was numb in most of his body, couldnt feel any pain

 

[tris-]

so your saying leaprosy is an emotional issue and NOT to do with lack of feeling in the body?
i think the sufferers would be a bit pissed at that.

 

[psyco]

pain is always an attempt to let your CPU know that your body is in an uncomfortable or dangerous condition and that you should do something to stop that.

that makes it an emotion... its a fear baced emotion. you fear the pain and try to stop it... if there was no emotional link, you wouldn't bother... atleast i wouldn't:-/

before we continue, a personal theory... on a scale of 1-10, 1 being poor, 10 being great, how would you rate your your pain threshold?
i would rate mind 8-9

this would also block the emotional response, to that area

you didn't let me finish!

]Yip. Exactly. And without this connection, we can´t feel pain. So it has to be a sense, because a broken spine doesn´t affect your ability to have emotions.

or... without the connection the response isn't triggered

so your saying leaprosy is an emotional issue and NOT to do with lack of feeling in the body?
i think the sufferers would be a bit pissed at that.

i always thought leprosy, was the uncontrollable manifestation of sores:-/

 

[Outlander]

I just did a paper on this a few months ago for my course. When using the word 'pain' then you include all forms and derivatives, so in answer to the poll then 'pain' in this case would be both physical and emotional. If thats what your asking?

 

[tris-]

" Leprosy can eventually cause a variety of skin problems, loss of feeling, and paralysis of the hands and feet.[2]"

 

[psyco]

" Leprosy can eventually cause a variety of skin problems, loss of feeling, and paralysis of the hands and feet.[2]"

thats the one i found, but w/o knowing what the skin problems are it seem more numbing/disabling than painfull

I just did a paper on this a few months ago for my course. When using the word 'pain' then you include all forms and derivatives, so in answer to the poll then 'pain' in this case would be both physical and emotional. If thats what your asking?

i was mainly leaning towards jumping off a large wall, with a poor landing... but not so bad you have to goto hospital

--

imo, pain and being hurt are differant things you can be hurt but not be in pain... if you get what i meen

 

[Thorwyn]

that makes it an emotion... its a fear baced emotion. you fear the pain and try to stop it... if there was no emotional link, you wouldn't bother... atleast i wouldn't

No! It´s not fear because fear - at least in my definition - describes a feeling that´s being provoked by anticipating something (and that something can also be pain of course), or to put it differently: fear is always focusing about the future, while pain is all about presence. You may fear the pain of a needle, but as soon as the needle is in your skin, there´s nothing to fear anymore and the fear is replaced by the urge to stop the pain.
In my opinion, pain just causes an "unpleasant" feeling and your brain has the chance to respond to that.

Another example why I think that pain is not an emotional thing are reflexes. Touch a hot plate and you will pull back your hand before the signal even reaches your brain. You don´t even get a chance to build up an emotion. The pain arrives sooner or later, but at that point, the "action" is already over. In my opinion, that´s an indication for my theory that pain is - in the first place - nothing more than a physical thing.

before we continue, a personal theory... on a scale of 1-10, 1 being poor, 10 being great, how would you rate your your pain threshold?
i would rate mind 8-9

It depends. Generally, it´s quite good, but there are certain kinds of comparatively "small" pains I simply can´t stand. Dentist drilling a hole into my teeth is one of them.

 

[noblok]

Pain is a physical experience. Emotional pain is just a poor choice of words, since it refers to a feeling similar to the feeling we (usually) get when we experience pain, not to pain as such.

My line of thought is very similar to that of Thorwyn[B&Q], but I've thought of another argument as well. Pain as such is not linked to any emotion. Usually people dislike pain, but sometimes people enjoy pain. Sometimes they deliberatively search for it. I'll give the example of the long distance runner. After running for god knows how long, he will be in pain, but he will expereince it as something positive, as an indication of his prestation, perhaps. This doesn't mean that what he experiences isn't pain, it just means that pain as such isn't linked to any emotion.

(another example would be the sado-masochist)

 

[psyco]

No! It´s not fear because fear - at least in my definition - describes a feeling that´s being provoked by anticipating something (and that something can also be pain of course), or to put it differently: fear is always focusing about the future, while pain is all about presence. You may fear the pain of a needle, but as soon as the needle is in your skin, there´s nothing to fear anymore and the fear is replaced by the urge to stop the pain.
In my opinion, pain just causes an "unpleasant" feeling and your brain has the chance to respond to that.

Another example why I think that pain is not an emotional thing are reflexes. Touch a hot plate and you will pull back your hand before the signal even reaches your brain. You don´t even get a chance to build up an emotion. The pain arrives sooner or later, but at that point, the "action" is already over. In my opinion, that´s an indication for my theory that pain is - in the first place - nothing more than a physical thing.

correct, but fear has a much wider definition... example, your about to get hit by a madman wielding a metal pole, you fear the advancer, he hits... now you have 2 types of fear, 1 he might hit you again, 3 the fear of the pain that was dealt on the first blow(as pain, though experience, can only manifest if you allow it) you fear you might be concuss, disorientation or even worse, some bones may have broke, and even worse your brain is bleeding out, and finally the fear of the pain dealt on the first blow

anyone whose has a needle stuck in there arm knows there is no pain, maybe some discomfort... no more, a perfect example of an injury with no pain...

the human body cannot tell the difference between extreme temperatures, initially... by the time you could compute you would have developed a pain based fear(its not full pain, like breaking a bone or something)
also, human reaction speeds are far slower than it would take your brain to understand there is a risk...
but back to your scenario, why would you put it back before it hurt? fear next time wait it out... hold for 5secs, then try to beet your record the next time, you will grow increasingly a custom to the sensation, and the mental aspect will slow down
i also believe we have emotions programmed into us, and have a kind of bank... could be wrong, remember someone telling me it

this bit may or may not be bullshit, but just remembered something i saw on Greys Anatomy... there was this girl, who claimed to have supernatural powers, and didn't feel pain... she had a very emotionally unpleasant childhood... she was admitted to the Psych-ward... i'm sure this is a real illness just i cant remember the name of it... if she couldn't feel pain cause of her upbringing, wouldn't that support my case... i acknowledge its not real case's, but pretty sure its a RL illness, nether the less, will try to look it up

My line of thought is very similar to that of Thorwyn[B&Q], but I've thought of another argument as well. Pain as such is not linked to any emotion. Usually people dislike pain, but sometimes people enjoy pain. Sometimes they deliberatively search for it. I'll give the example of the long distance runner. After running for god knows how long, he will be in pain, but he will expereince it as something positive, as an indication of his prestation, perhaps. This doesn't mean that what he experiences isn't pain, it just means that pain as such isn't linked to any emotion.

adrenaline(the adrenaline that actually egoists in the human body) lasts 30secs, this doesn't help in this case... but they do lots of training and have probably taught themselves to ignore it, this would suggest a mental/psychological link to me

 

[noblok]

adrenaline(the adrenaline that actually egoists in the human body) lasts 30secs, this doesn't help in this case... but they do lots of training and have probably taught themselves to ignore it, this would suggest a mental/psychological link to me

They don't ignore the pain. It isn't enjoyment despite the pain, it's enjoyment because of the pain.

 

[psyco]

Pain is a physical experience. Emotional pain is just a poor choice of words, since it refers to a feeling similar to the feeling we (usually) get when we experience pain, not to pain as such.

They don't ignore the pain. It isn't enjoyment despite the pain, it's enjoyment because of the pain.

getting hurt is the physical experience. pain cant be shown... unless you can show me a comprehensive CAT scan, but then, everyone brains aren't identical... but your brain is always evolving

i don't think anyone was using Emotional pain, in there points... including me

your telling me, years of endurance training, doesn't lessen the pain?

 

[noblok]

i don't think anyone was using Emotional pain, in there points... including me

I put that sentence there to indicate the difference between 'pain', which is a sensation and the emotions which are the result of that pain (the feeling that the pain is (un)enjoyable, wanting it to stop, mental suffering, etc).

your telling me, years of endurance training, doesn't lessen the pain?

It probably does lessen the pain, as they grow more used to it. This doesn't mean they feel no pain at all though. It also doesn't mean that pain is an emotion. Someone who lives somewhere hot will be used to the temperature and not feel as hot as someone who lives somewhere cold who's there on a holiday. Unless you claim that 'hot' and 'cold' are emotions as well, rather than sensations.


Another approach, the dictionary:

Originally Posted by: dictionary.com
1. physical suffering or distress, as due to injury, illness, etc.
2. a distressing sensation in a particular part of the body: a back pain.
3. mental or emotional suffering or torment: I am sorry my news causes you such pain.

1 tells me that pain is something physical. As far as I'm concerned emotions aren't physical.
2 tells me that pain is a sensation, which causes an emotion (distress). Although, admittedly, one of the terms used to describe 'distress' is 'great pain', but I believe this refers to emotional pain, which - in my opinion - isn't really pain.
3 refers to emotional pain, which I class as a metonymical use of the word pain, as described above.

 

[psyco]

It probably does lessen the pain, as they grow more used to it. This doesn't mean they feel no pain at all though. It also doesn't mean that pain is an emotion. Someone who lives somewhere hot will be used to the temperature and not feel as hot as someone who lives somewhere cold who's there on a holiday. Unless you claim that 'hot' and 'cold' are emotions as well, rather than sensations.

1 tells me that pain is something physical. As far as I'm concerned emotions aren't physical.
2 tells me that pain is a sensation, which causes an emotion (distress). Although, admittedly, one of the terms used to describe 'distress' is 'great pain', but I believe this refers to emotional pain, which - in my opinion - isn't really pain.
3 refers to emotional pain, which I class as a metonymical use of the word pain, as described above.

the longest length i ever had done was 1500m(not sure if it falls into long distance) but i didn't feel pain, my legs just wouldn't move, is that what you mean?

and no, that would be silly

but, at no point during this discussion did i say pain was totally a mental thing
i said that it was a physical response to a action upon a person to cause distress... that however imo doesn't mean its a sense...
im saying that you become/are hurt, and feel pain - like you would any other emotion, and effectively, in some case's has an on/off switch - a friend of mine told me some years ago, that there was a form of meditation(in the matial arts realm) that did this, if it was a sense, there would be no on/off switch
take the 5sence's you cant stop hearing, you cant stop feeling, you cant stop tasting, you cant stop smelling and you cant stop seeing - unless you develop a illness or were born without it

but like i said earlier, im not very competent at getting my points across, and have to say them several times before people understand what i mean

I just did a paper on this a few months ago for my course. When using the word 'pain' then you include all forms and derivatives, so in answer to the poll then 'pain' in this case would be both physical and emotional. If thats what your asking?

how many page's is it? would like to read it at some point, if you let me ofc

 

[noblok]

the longest length i ever had done was 1500m(not sure if it falls into long distance) but i didn't feel pain, my legs just wouldn't move, is that what you mean?

Think 15km and you'll get a better idea of what I mean .

im saying that you become/are hurt, and feel pain - like you would any other emotion, and effectively, in some case's has an on/off switch - a friend of mine told me some years ago, that there was a form of meditation(in the matial arts realm) that did this, if it was a sense, there would be no on/off switch
take the 5sence's you cant stop hearing, you cant stop feeling, you cant stop tasting, you cant stop smelling and you cant stop seeing - unless you develop a illness or were born without it

You can get used to something and thus not notice it as much. When you go into a recently manured acre you will be overwhelmed by the smell. After walking over it for a while you won't notice it any longer. If you experience it more often, the time to 'get used to it' will reduce, untill you arrive at a point that you still smell the smell, but not as intense/don't mind it.

Pain is very similar to that. Pain is a very intense degree of 'feeling'. If you experience it enough, you will get used to it and not feel it as intense, up to the point that you experience being 'touched', but no 'pain'. I won't comment on the topic of meditation as I know next to nothing about it and I think it's not such a good idea to take one element of meditation without fully understanding the whole concept/context.


Another approach: combinations of pain and emotions. As far as I know it's impossible to feel two opposite emotions at the same time and not feel any conflict. You can't feel happy and sad at once without some experience of conflicting emotions. You can however experience pain and enjoy it as well as experience pain and not enjoy it, while feeling a perfect harmony between the pain and (dis)pleasure. The logical conclusion to me would be that pain isn't an emotion.

 

[Yeke]

Didnt read all the posts so sorry if this has been mentioned before,
Amputees feeling pain in limb's that are no longer there cant really be sense can it since theres no limb or nerves there for it to be a sense.

 

[Thorwyn]

There are "dead-end" nerves leading to the amputee´ed limb and they are sending the signals. You´re right that it´s not strictly a sense (meaning the signal is coming from the actual area), but it´s still a nevre signal and - thus - a sense. You can also say it´s some kind of sensual illusion, just like an optical illusion where you can see the black spot on the white paper although it´s not there. Same thing: nerves are mislead/confused -> wrong signal.

 

[Sharma]

i always thought leprosy, was the uncontrollable manifestation of sores:-/

I could have swore it was the uncontrollable manifestation of leprechauns.

 

[MaCaBr3]

I don't think pain is neither an emotion or a sense, but a reaction to something.

Emotional "pain" doesn't exist imo, we describe it as pain, but it's just something else.

 

[psyco]

I don't think pain is neither an emotion or a sense, but a reaction to something.

Emotional "pain" doesn't exist imo, we describe it as pain, but it's just something else.

>.<

well it egsists... so its gotta be something, either mental or physical

and what is that something else? i know its Schmerz in German though.
unfortunately, there is a amazing thing called language we use to communicate our feelings and ideas... and this just happens to be one of those things language has a use for

though a very specific post on your part i see you got your PHD in something and something else

we want answers damnnit!

 

[MaCaBr3]

>.<

well it egsists... so its gotta be something, either mental or physical

and what is that something else? i know its Schmerz in German though.
unfortunately, there is a amazing thing called language we use to communicate our feelings and ideas... and this just happens to be one of those things language has a use for

though a very specific post on your part i see you got your PHD in something and something else

we want answers damnnit!

Not making excuses, but I was at work and was bored and I just wanted to say something

I'm not a shrink, my post isn't relevant and I can't back it up with some kind of elaborated theory. Sorry for that.

 

[Sharaft]

Emotion, caus sex is a game!

 

[Overdriven]

Sense which turns to an emotion.

 

[psyco]

off topic, but!

Song and Artist of the Week:
Prodigy - Spitfire

Breathe!

 

[Nate]

when i stub my toe on some random door/stickyoutything it is most definately a sense ;o which then turns in to anger + hopping