Once again:Population bonuses?

[Wholdar]

They have started doing commercials in brittain, so things are changing... that is good.

Can anyone confirm this?
Would be nice to see one of them, if possible. =)

/j

 

[Danamyr]

Why not just remove the option to start a character on Excalibur for new players?

Or is that a silly idea?

 

[Shike]

Why not just remove the option to start a character on Excalibur for new players?

Or is that a silly idea?

Joe has played Excal for 3 years, his cousin comes visit and think DAoC look kinda cool so Joe says:

-Comon now Vilbur, come play with us, I give you gear and cash and some PL to make things easier on you, all you need to do is buy a DAoCacc and ill help out.

Next day, Vilbur buys a copy of DAoC, installs, patches, logs on for the 1st time and wanna choose Excal...

Guess if he'll be happy or furios, there is your answer to your Question.

 

[Dakkath]

To be perfectly honest guys, give up on Prydwen...

That was the place in the DAoC universe I considered home (and still do)

But no-one in their right mind will ever roll alts on there over another server. Why go to Pryd when Excal has superior numbers and therefore a better shot at grps, guilds and larger RvR.

It seems pretty obvious that no matter what our GMs do now, Pryd will never grow. More likely it will suffer a slow death as the remaining people get drawn away to a higher population server. To be honest, I can't blame them for that...

Pryd has become very stale and very deflated of late... I doubt it can be saved (which is a shame because I found the community there a better fit than Excal)

If I were involved in running the game I'd make damn sure we had a way to migrate Pryd people to another server before you loose them all to boredom...

 

[Eroda]

To be perfectly honest guys, give up on Prydwen...

That was the place in the DAoC universe I considered home (and still do)

But no-one in their right mind will ever roll alts on there over another server. Why go to Pryd when Excal has superior numbers and therefore a better shot at grps, guilds and larger RvR.

It seems pretty obvious that no matter what our GMs do now, Pryd will never grow. More likely it will suffer a slow death as the remaining people get drawn away to a higher population server. To be honest, I can't blame them for that...

Pryd has become very stale and very deflated of late... I doubt it can be saved (which is a shame because I found the community there a better fit than Excal)

If I were involved in running the game I'd make damn sure we had a way to migrate Pryd people to another server before you loose them all to boredom...

Far too negative imo The server isn't in good shape but it can be kept going, just needs some good promotion in the run up to the release of catacombs and some incentives to roll on pyrd (some higher bonuses for all realms in general would be one way). Either way, i expect the server to be just clustered with excal if the population gets to a point where it cant support an active rvr population.

Things will become clearer in a month or so after the release of catacombs and i also think a good few will return from WoW. After leveling to 60, i dont see much to do in the game in its current state, i think alot of the appeal atm is cos its new and fresh and people needed a break from daoc in general.

 

[Azathrim]

That's just not a very good solution Dakath. Same reason clustering won't happen on the english servers. It would effectively leave only one realm to pick for english people. That's no good really.

I can only see two solutions:
1) Get more people in to save the server(s).
2) Move Pry/Exc to US and merge them with one of those.

First option is the good option. Second option seems pretty unrealistic, unfortunately.

 

[[GOA]Erivoss]

Nothing prevents GoA from listing the server bonuses in the Account management system they have. Nothing prevents GoA from making damn well sure new players, or players re-activating accounts know what the bonuses are and what server GoA suggest you start out on. Nothing!

I love how all you people seem to know what we can and can't do better than us.

Despite that you're actually right, we are working on a way for players to see what the popullation bonuses are for a particular server BEFORE they chose what server they play on.

After, if people want to join a more popullated server or a less popullated one - well that's their business and we can't in any way force a player to chose one server over another. Under popullated bonuses were designed to help balance popullations WITHIN a server, not BETWEEN servers. What you're effectively saying is change the rules on one server because there are less players and you want it easier.

What happens then on a server like Broceliande which is one of the biggest servers we have? Midgard there is HIGHLY underpopullated but going by your system they should have less bonuses than say Midgard on Excalibur and that ONLY because Broc is more popullated than Excal?

 

[Wholdar]

I love how all you people seem to know what we can and can't do better than us.

I´m sorry we stir up your day with ideas how we can try to save the server we invested so many days and hours on. I´m pretty sure no one writes here to discredit you or your work, or your ability to do that work.

Problem is, that if you DO publish the bonuses as they are used now, that will only draw new players AWAY from prydwen, and to excal. But honestly, by your answers, it seems you really dont give a rats ass about that. Maybe GOA actually just wants one english server, lowers costs, so the fact that prydwen is loosing more and more players, is actually quite convienient for you?

It´s good to know where you guys stand in this, makes the decisions the rest of us have to take much easier.

/j

 

[[GOA]Erivoss]

I´m sorry we stir up your day with ideas how we can try to save the server we invested so many days and hours on. I´m pretty sure no one writes here to discredit you or your work, or your ability to do that work.

Problem is, that if you DO publish the bonuses as they are used now, that will only draw new players AWAY from prydwen, and to excal. But honestly, by your answers, it seems you really dont give a rats ass about that.

It´s good to know where you guys stand in this, makes the decisions the rest of us have to take much easier.

/j

I was actually refering to the 'nothing stops GOA doing this that and the other." Sure we like reading your ideas, and we pass them on along to Mythic when we can... but there is a certain amount of what we can and can't do ourselves. Changing the purpose of Under popullated bonuses falls under the category of 'things we cannot do'.

Still, even if we did it doesn't help the situation on all the other servers so why is Prydwen more important than the rest?

 

[Eroda]

After, if people want to join a more popullated server or a less popullated one - well that's their business and we can't in any way force a player to chose one server over another. Under popullated bonuses were designed to help balance popullations WITHIN a server, not BETWEEN servers. What you're effectively saying is change the rules on one server because there are less players and you want it easier.

What happens then on a server like Broceliande which is one of the biggest servers we have? Midgard there is HIGHLY underpopullated but going by your system they should have less bonuses than say Midgard on Excalibur and that ONLY because Broc is more popullated than Excal?

People dont want it easier i dont think, more they would like to give people a reason to roll prydwen instead of excal. So say bonuses on prydwen were increased for all realms so that they were considerably higher than excals whilst still making hibernia the highest (and so most attractive realm to choose) i think it would have a very positive effect. I realise its not intended for this but i genuinely feel it would make a big impact and stop prydwen from continueing its rapid downward spiral. The bonuses wouldn't have to be in place indefinitely, just for a short while so that pryd gets a bit of a boost.

The english servers are in a bit of a different situation to the German\French ones due to their only being 2 of them. It thus makes issues like clustering alot more difficult to implement and so i think other things need to be considered even if they aren't intended to be used like that.

Having said all this, prydwen could well recover in the next few weeks so it could be premature getting worked up about it right now. Just alot of prydwen's players are depressed and disheartened to see a server they've played on for years to be in such a bad situation.

 

[Dakkath]

My appologies folks but I've not seen anything recently in DAoC to make me feel optimistic...

However, should anything happen to change that I would be delighted!!!

Ok Azathrim...
Option 1 - Get more people onto server... I truthfully don't see how... I don't see anything to convince people to roll on Mid or Alb on this server. Even with new and improved realm bonuses there aren't enough people on the server you can grp with as you level up anymore (one of the problems on low pop servers). Anyone looking to reroll will try to pick a higher pop server to increase their chances of getting groups etc. Vicious circle...

Option 2 - Move to US. There is absolutely no reason for GoA to do this... Move the servers, and surely they'd loose control of them and the revenue supplied by them. From a purely financial standpoint, it's better to bleed the server dry and get some revenue than migrate and loose all of it instantly. Plus the logistical headache of making sure that custom GoA changes etc are all compatible with US servers would probably prove too much work...

Ero...
Catacombs release. Ok heres a major plus with the new graphics and look and feel to the game... Undoubtedly, people will come back to go 'Ooooooh, pretty' and some will stay. Unfortunatley, with the RvR balance as it currently is, I can't see a way back for Alb or Mid on Prydwen.

Catacombs theroetically makes leveling easier. Great, we may get more level 50s from this, and god knows, we need them in all realms. Problem is once they're 50 they have to get Artis and level them to have a fair chance of being on equal terms with the existing players. This is doable with a few weeks work so not a big deal... Now they're in the same position as a lot of us... They're a lot lower RR than our friendly hibbies who worked their asses off and outdid the rest of us (hats off to them).

With pickup RvR grps falling apart with the first whipe these days, you either have to get extremely lucky being picked up by a competant grp (unlikely) or you have to prove yourself in RvR which is kinda hard due to the grp fold issue... Alb RvR grps... FG - 0 in 0.0000006s as I frequently say in game.

The frustration of not being able to compete due to bridge campers, dock campers, high RR grps and lack of pickup grps sometimes is frustrating enough to make people stop going out in RvR and puts us right back at square one...

Clustering: Theoretically an idea but this has been dismissed several times by our GMs as not under consideration and the whole restriction on logging in to chars on different realms for a set period of time will upset too many people to make it viable imo...

I hope I'm wrong, I really do, coz I truely enjoy the game when it's at it's best. But at it's worst it's not a nice place to be... I suspect the depression and apathy that has set in is too deep seated to be fixed.

 

[[GOA]Erivoss]

So say bonuses on prydwen were increased for all realms so that they were considerably higher than excals whilst still making hibernia the highest (and so most attractive realm to choose) i think it would have a very positive effect.

I agree it would be positive but we'd reach a state where bonuses are so huge they kind of defeat the point of the whole game. (This is an mmorpg and isn't supposed to be "easy", it's supposed to be "fun").

Now we're looking at ways to show what bonuses what realms/servers have before you chose your server. We've got a new PR agency which seems to be doing its job well. The game is probably more advertised now in the UK than it ever has been. These are all things we are doing to make people play this game more.... much more effective than just fiddling with bonuses that people may or may not notice.

 

[Azathrim]

I love how all you people seem to know what we can and can't do better than us.

C'mon, are you saying it's hard to display that information in your home-brewed Flash system? Every single player that is trying to create or reactivate an account have to pass through that system. You have 100% control of it, so I can't imagine that is beyond your Flash designers grasp.

What happens then on a server like Broceliande which is one of the biggest servers we have? Midgard there is HIGHLY underpopullated but going by your system they should have less bonuses than say Midgard on Excalibur and that ONLY because Broc is more popullated than Excal?

Going by my suggestion they would have about the same, Mid/Bro possible slightly higher if their active population is as low as you put it out.

Look, one way to make this, would be by making a standard for population by which to judge a server/realm.

Say the goal is to have an average population of 500 (No description of what '500' that is. If a realm have 750, they get 75% bonus. If another realm on another server have 400, they get 110%... and so on.

That way, you would factor in the population across all servers.

What you currently seems to be doing is create that standard arbitrarily on each server. Then judge each realm towards it. That creates this absurd situation where a low-pop server gets lower bonuses than a high-pop server.

 

[Andrilyn]

Clustering: Theoretically an idea but this has been dismissed several times by our GMs as not under consideration and the whole restriction on logging in to chars on different realms for a set period of time will upset too many people to make it viable imo...

I believe the GMs never said they wont clusted Prydwen with Excal or Prydwen with another server, last time I saw a GM post (forgot who it was) it was clearly stated that they weren't thinking about clustering at this time they will when the patch arrives which makes clusterring possible that is atleast if I have understand it correctly.

Then again I must agree with you that most of the things you said basically "killed" Prydwen of course everyone has their own oppinion about it but for me it were the 3-5am constant raids that killed it some time ago because after that people just quit with defending and retaking since it was/is pointless.

 

[Azathrim]

Now we're looking at ways to show what bonuses what realms/servers have before you chose your server. We've got a new PR agency which seems to be doing its job well. The game is probably more advertised now in the UK than it ever has been. These are all things we are doing to make people play this game more.... much more effective than just fiddling with bonuses that people may or may not notice.

Yes, it's really good with the commercials, that's an important thing and by far the most important thing to attract new players. However, once those are attracted, you need to guide them to the correct server/realms... that's what the bonuses are about, that is why they are important.

Remember, we don't want to inflate just one big realm, that have a better appeal due to the name of the game and shiny knights.

One thing though, when are you going to start the commercials in the scandinavian countries? (that supposedly makes up quite a huge bit of the english servers population).

 

[[GOA]Erivoss]

C'mon, are you saying it's hard to display that information in your home-brewed Flash system? Every single player that is trying to create or reactivate an account have to pass through that system. You have 100% control of it, so I can't imagine that is beyond your Flash designers grasp.

ah my bad, thought you meant in the game interface. Well, we're actually looking at ways to include it in the game interface itself... we could do it in billing but then it wouldn't really be a billing page. Putting it in game (or on the server selection screen) makes more sense.

What you currently seems to be doing is create that standard arbitrarily on each server. Then judge each realm towards it. That creates this absurd situation where a low-pop server gets lower bonuses than a high-pop server.

We calculate it via a ratio between realm popullations within that server using a specific set of parameters that I can't tell you about (as it could get exploited if people knew how we calculated bonuses). Other servers are absolutely not taken into account because that is NOT the point of these bonuses.

Of course if you compare the bonuses between servers it will seem strange but these bonuses were never meant to be compared like that.

 

[[GOA]Erivoss]

One thing though, when are you going to start the commercials in the scandinavian countries? (that supposedly makes up quite a huge bit of the english servers population).

I don't know... it's not my field of work (at all) but I'll try and find out.

 

[Eroda]

I agree it would be positive but we'd reach a state where bonuses are so huge they kind of defeat the point of the whole game. (This is an mmorpg and isn't supposed to be "easy", it's supposed to be "fun").

Now we're looking at ways to show what bonuses what realms/servers have before you chose your server. We've got a new PR agency which seems to be doing its job well. The game is probably more advertised now in the UK than it ever has been. These are all things we are doing to make people play this game more.... much more effective than just fiddling with bonuses that people may or may not notice.

Thats very true, im really hoping we will be in a much better situation by the end of the month. I guess in a way, only having 2 English servers is a good thing as all newer players wont be spread out so thin.
Catacombs seems to be getting marketed alot better so with any luck there will be a good influx of new players and alot of returning people also

 

[Krakatau]

...Still, even if we did it doesn't help the situation on all the other servers so why is Prydwen more important than the rest?

More important ?? If it goes on like this, 1 (Prydwen) of 2 (not counting Camlann) ENGLISH servers is soon gonna be dead

Almost giving up on Prydwen now...Started some levelling on Alb/Excal yesterday..
And not having the option to play a third realm on a third English server (Camlann is PvP and I don't count it) just sucks... As of now people leaving pryd for Avalon etc - guess this was not what you expected with 2 UK servers.....

 

[Azathrim]

Well, we're actually looking at ways to include it in the game interface itself... we could do it in billing but then it wouldn't really be a billing page. Putting it in game (or on the server selection screen) makes more sense.

True, but one thing is keeping things clean for their original purpose. Another thing is putting added benefits into it. I agree though, having it in the client seems like a good idea (too). But, everyone gets to read what's on the Billing system. Not everyone reads the notes in the logon screen.

There is nothing wrong with using what extra tools you might have available.

Of course if you compare the bonuses between servers it will seem strange but these bonuses were never meant to be compared like that.

Perhaps that was not the intention Mythic had. But, the effect seems very clear to me. As mentioned earlier, GoA's english servers are special in this way. This due to only having two english servers. That is one thing you have to account for, and my issue is, that it appears you don't - even though it -has- an effect here in Europe.

 

[Otho]

Of course if you compare the bonuses between servers it will seem strange but these bonuses were never meant to be compared like that.

How on earth do you think a new person looks up on the bonuses when deciding where to go (if you finally manage to marketing Catacombs and acctuallyt attract some new players). I can not for my life see that people would pick Prydwen before Excalibur based on the bonuses to leveling. Thanks for making a low populated realm even more unattractive!

/Otho

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

I agree it would be positive but we'd reach a state where bonuses are so huge they kind of defeat the point of the whole game. (This is an mmorpg and isn't supposed to be "easy", it's supposed to be "fun").

Now we're looking at ways to show what bonuses what realms/servers have before you chose your server. We've got a new PR agency which seems to be doing its job well. The game is probably more advertised now in the UK than it ever has been. These are all things we are doing to make people play this game more.... much more effective than just fiddling with bonuses that people may or may not notice.

Ok im not jumping on your back here but i would appreciate an answer...

Ive not seen ONE advert on TV for it since TOA was released.Nor has anyone i know from any of my social circles or workplace...

Secondly, its nearly impossible to get a copy of the game in ANY major games retailer in the UK, even online you have to order from the US!Out of my 11 major local electronic games outlets i found only one with a single copy of TOA/SI and no basic game.Realise this isnt your fault but i know why a retail outlet doesnt stock something - because it doesnt sell...

Thirdly - ive been asking friends who attend gaming conventions to keep an eye out for advertising for me for the game at the events/lans/etc they reguarly attend (fortnightly/monthly ish).Again, nil.Over forty events (43 at last count) major and minor this year alone and theyve not seen a single advertisement/poster/etc.

So with all due respect what advertising IS being pushed in the UK?

 

[Ctuchik]

Of course if you compare the bonuses between servers it will seem strange but these bonuses were never meant to be compared like that.

perhaps u didnt mean to have the bonuses compared, but they are. and even if the "new" players dont know about the bonuses when they first start, they will find out, sooner rather then later id guess. and if they aint that high lvl they WILL reroll. not all of them will, but many enough to make a diffrence in my humble oppinion..

as had been said quite a few times above this post, the english servers are quite unique as theres only 2 to choose from. so its WAY to easy to compare the bonuses and see wich one gives the "better buck for the cash"

this -needs- adressing!

 

[Flimgoblin]

perhaps u didnt mean to have the bonuses compared, but they are. and even if the "new" players dont know about the bonuses when they first start, they will find out, sooner rather then later id guess. and if they aint that high lvl they WILL reroll. not all of them will, but many enough to make a diffrence in my humble oppinion..

as had been said quite a few times above this post, the english servers are quite unique as theres only 2 to choose from. so its WAY to easy to compare the bonuses and see wich one gives the "better buck for the cash"

this -needs- adressing!

when you first played the game and struggled your way to say level 25, if you then found out that you got a 5% higher camp bonus on excalibur or a 14% faster free level would you really reroll?

 

[Dakkath]

when you first played the game and struggled your way to say level 25, if you then found out that you got a 5% higher camp bonus on excalibur or a 14% faster free level would you really reroll?

To be honest... No...

Which is why I suspect this avenue to promote server growth will not work

 

[Flimgoblin]

Apparently there's something on the US servers that says "Go to this server! it's great!" when you start a brand new fresh account...

is there the same thing on the european servers?

(though there's the whole difficulty with languages then...)

 

[Gamah]

I have not seen any advertisments for catas although I havn't really been looking? anyone got some media?

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Ok im not jumping on your back here but i would appreciate an answer...

Ive not seen ONE advert on TV for it since TOA was released.Nor has anyone i know from any of my social circles or workplace...

Secondly, its nearly impossible to get a copy of the game in ANY major games retailer in the UK, even online you have to order from the US!Out of my 11 major local electronic games outlets i found only one with a single copy of TOA/SI and no basic game.Realise this isnt your fault but i know why a retail outlet doesnt stock something - because it doesnt sell...

Thirdly - ive been asking friends who attend gaming conventions to keep an eye out for advertising for me for the game at the events/lans/etc they reguarly attend (fortnightly/monthly ish).Again, nil.Over forty events (43 at last count) major and minor this year alone and theyve not seen a single advertisement/poster/etc.

So with all due respect what advertising IS being pushed in the UK?

Bumping my own bit of the thread again for your attention as i really would like to know what advertising is being pushed in the UK.

 

[Dimse Dut]

Adding some oil to the fire *giggle*

Why is prydwyn important:

1. Well you would have had to play Both servers to understand that. But I think if you ask around you will find that Prydwyn ( can only speak for albion) is considered alot more friendly than Alb/excal. ( hope I dont offend to many Alb/excal people LOL)

2. its Important to the people who play on it and that should at the very least count for something. From what you ( goa People) can se here is that we feel passionatly about this Server and we want it to stay alive. Dont belittle us for enjoying where we are and not wanting to move. I have played for 3 years and if I wanted to move I would have done it AGES ago.

In regards to whether Pryd is dead or not I dont know.
I have lead some Rvr Bgs ( on my cleric Rhuvetha) and to be honest Albs can still kick butt. But one thing is for sure if we dont stop complaining and start sticking together it wont matter if pryd is dead or not because we will still be hugging our BB's in CS wondering what the hell happend when the hibs/mids have all our keeps and towers.

Stop sulking and start Fighting, Albion!

 

[[GOA]Erivoss]

Adding some oil to the fire *giggle*

and time to put it out...

I've tried to explain why we're doing the things we're doing and why we can't change things with a simple swish of a magic wand but I'm being met by a wall of incomprehension and it seems that no one is even attempting to see things from a general view of DAoC EU and not DAoC UK.

Maybe I'm not explaining things clearly enough or maybe you just don't want to listen I don't know. All I know is that coming to FH stresses me out and gets me worked up, and I don't like getting worked up.

So, I've decided to stop reading this forum. The GMs can more than adequately handle any feedback from the community themselves. I love this game and I love working on it and will continue to do so but only within the scope of my job, nothing more. I'm sorry if this disappoints some people.