On clerics and the future of Albion

[hangianix]

Mercurial

Tanks need to act like a grp and not running away 2-3-4 directions (depends on their number) and at last somebody mentioned how annoying when somebody ruin your quality rezz (thx Merc ) and you just wasted your power.


__________________
Killerbee lvl 50 Cleric
7XX Armorcrafter
Carnificis Ministerium

"[Party] Hitokiri "but if u come here ill ave to pass down my medal of crazyness to u"

I'm still waiting Hito...

 

[robillard]

Ok then to adress another point I cant really see why you feel clerics are reviled, its just not true. All the clerics that are still active certainly in my guild are well loved and still play an active part in both RvR and PvE and they are always welcome in groups.

Sorcerers are also going to get a big nerf, but do they also feel they are reviled, I think not.

So if clerics in general are not reviled, maybe its just you, again I think this highly unlikely. You quote instances where people have been ungrateful to you, or perhaps as in the case paladins usurped your position as a first class rezzer, but i think in reality this percieved revulsion is merely people to busy concentrating on what they have to to to fulfill their role to thank you.
This last point does I agree show something of a lack of curtesy, but you should by no means feel hated

 

[mercurial]

Thanks Killerbee

I think you meant "ress" not "mezz" though .

Because lets face it in rvr situation (ie. zerg) the mez is worth sweet nothing (point blank resisted LOADS), PVE is a different story though, which was the crux of my point.

Robillard, I admit I have always been treated (in the main) courteously by my other realm mates.

The point of my post was not about me, but the my perception of clerics as a whole, when I hear things like "justified nerf" etc.

My original comments weren't meant to be personal about either you or I, but as comments on the whole class and realm.

 

[robillard]

sorry killerbee, I dont quite understand your point about tanks

would you mind reiterating it for me

 

[mercurial]

She meant thats its hard to heal (because of line of sight, range etc.) when you are at MMG and the lone 2-3 tanks have chased a enemy to MPK and then scream "heal!" (not having informed you before hand they were running off)

Mercurial Lvl50 Cleric
Lionhearts
www.mumer.com

 

[hangianix]

Not that is the problem they running off, the real problem that they don't run to the same direction. Most of the time when i used my grp insta i could heal only 1 tank + all of the supporters who were besides me.

(Hopefully Merc will translate it again if something wasn't clear Sry but my english is quite poor.)

__________________
Killerbee lvl 50 Cleric
7XX Armorcrafter
Carnificis Ministerium

"[Party] Hitokiri "but if u come here ill ave to pass down my medal of crazyness to u"

I'm still waiting Hito...

 

[robillard]

my responce is simple, dont group with gimped tanks, he's my list of the best tanks around in no particular order, hope I dont upset people ut this is simply my observation.

Hrodelbert DeMonteCristo
Toa Henrix
Torean
Korebwyn Frost
Steveh
Chavez
Ozwaldo Lifegiver
Scar Thorgrimm
Boney Gravedigger
Tibor Tightpants
Colby
Araudry Machine
Shane
Soulfly Amarok
Bofgrey Quinten
Jamza

I grouped with all these people though they may not know me, and I rate them all as highly intelligent players who wont give you any sh*t about your healing, If you dont want to be bitched at, group with nice people

 

[robillard]

and I'm sorry killerbee I meant no offence to you, I truely admire anyone who can speak a foreign language half as well as you.
being myself an ignorant Englishman with only a vague command of French, even less of Spanish and less still of German

not to mention the Scandinavian languages

 

[hangianix]

Unfortunatly it doesn't depends on that they are gimped or not. I know well Steveh (he is also Hungarian like me) we discussed this problem quite a lot of time and i admit that it is impossible to stay in a heal range. Only solution is the longer healing range or if the tanks at least staying in pairs (for easier healing) but i know that in a big battle they try to break spells and kill who they can that's why they run away and away but then i don't like to get comments about: "why don't you heal me".

Im not a touchy person so ...

__________________
Killerbee lvl 50 Cleric
7XX Armorcrafter
Carnificis Ministerium

"[Party] Hitokiri "but if u come here ill ave to pass down my medal of crazyness to u"

I'm still waiting Hito...

 

[robillard]

a bit off the topic, but I have to say I went to Hungary on my tour of europe in the summer, Budapest is a beautiful place

 

[robillard]

anyway back to the point, in reality there is no real reason, most of the time, for tanks to stray so far away from the other members of their groups. This especially applies if you have healers and wizards, the tanks should be protecting them. I think the problem of clerics not being able to heal comes for the most part from bad ingroup communiction, which I'm afraid can only be resolved with experience

 

[corranhorn1]

hmmmm

Rob give me a week and you have another sub 50 on 100k+... 10k to go and moving up through the merc top 10 rp holders. if i find the time to play this week that a walk in the park, if not, well it possible.

anyhow.....

i have limited time a day, work, girlfriend etc... now that means i cant get a mini a day, or every other day, hell i be lucky to get a mini a week.. yes partly my fault, but time is the essance, standard groups are "you got space for 43 merc", reply "we can put you at 4th on list".. hmm when got say a day with only 2hrs available this wont help as by time get a group together and in the correct place i have to go....

i am effective in RvR, i do insane things at time sure, i charge the mids when many albs would run, i will stand and take on an army to save a fellow alb, i cant remember how many times when my group decided the best option is to flee, yet unable to i charge through the pack of the enemy to get to their weak healers, or speed class just to allow the group to survive. it works, you here the healer in trouble and the group normally will defend it, you attack their source of speed and they cant keep up with the rest. I am an honourable fighter in my opinion, i do not expect to be taken at the cost of the group, but i know a lot of season 50 people that would have me in their group and 65% of the time i will speak to those that know me before approaching a group i dont know, for i dont expect the place, if i get it it is a bonus if not i go somewhere i can survive...

The realm fights on many levels, all seasons have a place in the frontier, would you rather no healer or a lvl40 healer, would you like no scout at the cost of having no information just as it a lvl40 scout, no... everyone has their uses but of course a lvl50 more effective... but as said, a lower level with knowledge of their class and how to play them is better then a lvl50 who doesnt do anything... i mean, why have a lvl 50 sorcerer mezz just for some fool to break them all free!? no point, i know many 50's that do that, thou i rarely will hit a mezz'd target without checking what else is about......

i would however like to say Rob, thou you right 50's are more useful in general there are exceptions. The lower lvl characters get overlooked by enemy at times and so they can rake damage up over time that seems nothing at first but is infact quite a lot over time, and you can never have too much in way of cannon fodder <smiles>

It is wrong to tell non 50's dont RvR, it is why i play, give me a group in dartmoor and i wont RvR but what the likely hood of that? very low... i say about 1 training group a week will be their for limited time if your lucky, df is fine but does get boring after a while... and lyonesse, well there no autos like you lot who been 50 for some time got so that is infact slower now.

The order of knights templar know where my characters heart lays, it is fighting the true enemies... the PvE and The internal albion arguing is of little consequence to me, I will be on the frontier, ours, hibs, mids, for at least 1-2hrs a day, close to all my time, i would rather fight a red eyed epic clad player and see how close i can get to defeating them (65%ish of skald best so far i believe when had no purge or dirty trick).... i would rather walk along the space between the apk and the amg in emain baiting out the stealthers so the stealther or 2 in my group can just step in and PA their arses to death, if it kills me so be it, least there nothing picking of our reinforcements that come through in dribs and drab. I am out there, i learning my limitations and pushing further each day, and one day i shall be season 50, thou it may be in distant future it is something i will get finally.
I am one the first people that asked if out on frontier, if anything happens and if can be joined by many templars, and i normally the contact point between the pheonix legion/Unity and the templars in concerns of RvR and albion keep retakes <salutes Larsa>

Ok so i talking a lot, i think it manily pointless waste of your time reading that as no one cares really, but hey least it a break from the flames, thou knowing this place one will be found if not made from it. To sum up, dont give non 50's problems for not being 50, sometimes they have not got the time to dedicate to get that bit more... i got 1 level in 6weeks as i cant find the time to train with the real life interventions, my times of 8hr daoc days 3/4days of a week ended in the lvl30's, and i find it hard to train not seeing the xp bar moving much, least with RvR i will have at least 2000 rp's for an hour or twos gaming... We all need something to keep us in the game, else many lvl 40s will leave due to giving up on tring to get 50... and as the saying goes "variety is the spice of life"

See you on the battlefield. And may my enemies die swift and my friends fight hard (whilst they running of to the distance<smiles> i didnt say all my friends were willing to stand and fight did i now!?)

anyways sorry to babble, sorry to waste your time, but least it something to read when bored at work.


oh and as for smiters, they have their uses, i like a good healer/buffer, but a smiter/healer has its uses, and if played right are a life saver, they do the extra damage and keep you alive,... they will attept to the "nerf" and continue on to be a force to be reckoned with, if the players willing to adapt, and alot will be as they know what they capable of... may we stop arguing about how people want to play and just play as a team.. we albs can be the best and own all 3 realms if we work together, "Organisation is the key to success", it true in battle as well as in business, so good luck, and may one day we be on a united front.

.............

corranhorn , season 43 Mercenary , Realm Myrmidon, 8th in mercenary rankings, and soon to be 6th (tomorrow if i wake for long enough)

 

[geniusdaoc]

Who's your main character ingame Robillard ?
Btw: You forgot Colby on your list of the best tanks Mr. Know-it-all (though I'm sure you forgot loads).
Let people play like they want, ofcourse they would be better at lvl 50 with uberstuff or whatever, but if they wanna play like that it's not my problem really, they'll die faster and if they happy in that situation, fine for me.
U cheering at clerics being nerfed if I got it right ? LOL. U'll be cheering when they improve mid or hib classes then ? U played albion or ?
Anyway, the smite dmg reduction isnt my problem, the mez timer will be a big problem, that's why i lvl up my minstrel atm
And please, don't tell ppl how to play without giving us your ingame name please.

Gen.

 

[old.Kladen]

" dont play for the ****ing realm play for yourself"

if you dont play for the realm and just for yourself, your playing the wrong game.

thats why infil/scouts have it so hard when leveling coz they play for themselves (as a class)

 

[hrodelbert]

Why should he have to post who he is in game genius if the posts he provides are refreshing non flames bringing up some valid points. As long as someone is not being a twat and saying bad things about people who cares who they play in game. I have to agree that Colby is definately deserving to be on that list as are many others i guess the ones he listed were from his personnal experience

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by old.Kladen
" dont play for the ****ing realm play for yourself"

if you dont play for the realm and just for yourself, your playing the wrong game.

thats why infil/scouts have it so hard when leveling coz they play for themselves (as a class)

Its that kind of attitude that keeps infils/scouts out of exp groups in the first place. All the time people percieve stealthers to be in some way 'selfish' or not rolling chararcters 'for the realm' they will always have a hard time grouping.....

You should play this game for your own enjoyment, and not compromise and play a class you don't really enjoy just because its 'good for the realm'. If you enjoy playing Albions one billionth Earth Theurgist just because you get grouped easy and are 'good for the realm', be my guest. But some people don't enjoy classes like that, and play stealthers. Sure they find grouping hard, but not because they are selfish players, but because the class they enjoy playing the most has least to offer groups.

 

[Taggart]

Id, have to agree with chesnor, has the same idea as what i been telling people! I have a lvl 50 paladin. He is a more pve - rvr grp friendly char, but he is soooooooooo boring and i don't enjoy using him, so i traded him in for a minstrel a char that i do enjoy. Like i said ages i play the game for my enjoyment, whats the point playing a char that "YOU" hate but other people like? Sounds fucked up if we are to play for everyone elses enjoyment but our own!

Some people have to use their commonsense, i know this is a team game, but should our "team" not all be happy? and be effective?! If someone wants to be a scout or a inf then so be it, but asmuch as they guys are loners at times in rvr, they are damn handy in a team environment, u can have infs taking out caster or healers and scouts doing same too, either in a skirmish or in a keep take.

Everyone has their place in the game, main thing is that we can all enjoy the game, no point in people playing chars they don't enjoy! So lets all just play the chars we want and get on with the killing!!

 

[AbPoon]

Whats better for your realm? 30 level 50's at a relic raid or 30 lvl 50's and 30 lvl 45's ?

Use what you have avalible, a lvl 50 and a 49 both ganging a enemy is better then a 50 on his own, by saying no under lvl 50's your just telling half your army not 2 bother really.

By the time you hit 50 you SHOULD be able to know your way round Hib Mid and Alb frontires, Having a fg of rr1 level 50's running round mid not knowing where they need 2 go is just pretty stupid.

So if you havent got RR3 by the time your 50 your not playing this game right, RVR is fun, you pay to play so dont let any idiot tell you your no good, the people that do are just fools and i'll bet they didnt think like that when they were sub 50.

So yes if i see someone in epic armour with rr1 dead i will laugh at you and tbh i'd laugh at you if you were alive and in my realm, try seeing how far a lvl 50 gets against a lvl 48 tank with IP m8.

 

[robyne_hud]

OK - there seems to be 2 threads stemming from this one, both of which I have a comment about.

Thread 1 - not going RVR till lvl 50...

OK - so when the call goes out for defence of the Albion Frontier cos the mids or hibs have got all our keeps (which has happened a few times recently!), all those under level 50 are to stay away.

I think not! That is one sure way of losing the relics we do still have. As I have mentioned on previous threads, the trend seems to be with Alb players is that you reach level 50, get disappointed as its not that great after all, and leave. How many posts have we seen recently of people giving up after reaching level 50 because they are bored/fed up. There are not enough level 50 Albs to defend the realm by themselves. You need us lower levels!

One thing I have found though is that hte higher I get the more effective I get RVR. Prior to level 40, I was not much use. I am starting to be able to kick ass at level 45. However, I have enjoyed the rvr side of the game much more since I was level 40. So my advice to non-50 players would be to wait till you are level 40 before you start to take RVR serious (no I am not saying don't go below 40 before everyone starts to wade in on that comment!)


Thread 2 - the smite spec of Clerics being nerfed.

Good!

I do not agree with smite clerics. Firstly, people want clerics in their group for the buffs/heals, not for damage. If you want damage, you get a tank/infi/scout/caster.

Secondly, Smite clerics want to be damagers at heart but do not want to rely on others to heal them. That is playing for yourself, not for your realm! (to quote previous posts). The idea behind DAOC is a team game. You have the healers, the damagers, and those who can take damage. A good team consists of a representative from each. The damagers/damage takers rely on the healers to heal, not to damage. And the healer depends on the damager/takers to defend them and kill the mob. Clerics come under the healer category, not the damager category! So what are we doing with smiters in the first place?????

End rant!

 

[cruhar]

Originally posted by robyne_hud
OK - there seems to be 2 threads stemming from this one, both of which I have a comment about.

Thread 1 - not going RVR till lvl 50...

OK - so when the call goes out for defence of the Albion Frontier cos the mids or hibs have got all our keeps (which has happened a few times recently!), all those under level 50 are to stay away.

I think not! That is one sure way of losing the relics we do still have. As I have mentioned on previous threads, the trend seems to be with Alb players is that you reach level 50, get disappointed as its not that great after all, and leave. How many posts have we seen recently of people giving up after reaching level 50 because they are bored/fed up. There are not enough level 50 Albs to defend the realm by themselves. You need us lower levels!

One thing I have found though is that hte higher I get the more effective I get RVR. Prior to level 40, I was not much use. I am starting to be able to kick ass at level 45. However, I have enjoyed the rvr side of the game much more since I was level 40. So my advice to non-50 players would be to wait till you are level 40 before you start to take RVR serious (no I am not saying don't go below 40 before everyone starts to wade in on that comment!)


Thread 2 - the smite spec of Clerics being nerfed.

Good!

I do not agree with smite clerics. Firstly, people want clerics in their group for the buffs/heals, not for damage. If you want damage, you get a tank/infi/scout/caster.

Secondly, Smite clerics want to be damagers at heart but do not want to rely on others to heal them. That is playing for yourself, not for your realm! (to quote previous posts). The idea behind DAOC is a team game. You have the healers, the damagers, and those who can take damage. A good team consists of a representative from each. The damagers/damage takers rely on the healers to heal, not to damage. And the healer depends on the damager/takers to defend them and kill the mob. Clerics come under the healer category, not the damager category! So what are we doing with smiters in the first place?????

End rant!

That

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by robyne_hud
I do not agree with smite clerics. Firstly, people want clerics in their group for the buffs/heals, not for damage. If you want damage, you get a tank/infi/scout/caster.

Secondly, Smite clerics want to be damagers at heart but do not want to rely on others to heal them. That is playing for yourself, not for your realm! (to quote previous posts). The idea behind DAOC is a team game. You have the healers, the damagers, and those who can take damage. A good team consists of a representative from each. The damagers/damage takers rely on the healers to heal, not to damage. And the healer depends on the damager/takers to defend them and kill the mob. Clerics come under the healer category, not the damager category! So what are we doing with smiters in the first place?????

End rant! [/B]

I was soloing oranges in DF recently with my smite cleric. A small group (1 arms, 1 pally and a wizzy) kept bugging me to join ,as they were wiping out and I was ressing. I eventually joined then and we proceeded to kill the very same mobs I was soloing while they did their awesome damage on the mobs....not.

Point is, in some instances, the clerics ARE the best dmg dealers (undead) and the dmg output of a pre-nerf smite cleric (i.e. mostly specced smite) is as good as almost any class on some mobs.

Smite Clerics aren't healers. Rejuv Clerics are Healers. Like I said earlier, I am a smiter who can heal, not a healer who can smite. Mythic gave clerics smite, as most clerics in RPGs have some form of offense. I spec smite, I smite. Don't presume to tell me how to play my char. Thanks.

 

[Danya]

Smite clerics aren't against the concept of balanced teams, just put them in as a damager not a healer. Just because you think all clerics should be healers doesn't mean it is so. Albion is not the only realm with healers with large damage potential, Hibernia has the mentalist.

 

[hangianix]

After nerf we will be bad in heal and bad in dmg. But again that i'm a smiter doesn't mean i CAN'T and WON'T heal. I'm fed up with the whinning - smite clerics didn't heal. That's a lie. Then i can mention theurgists or wizzis who didn't cast earth buff, minstrels who forgot power song while waiting etc-etc. Maybe some of them didn't heal, then as Robillard suggested me in question of tanks - don't group with them. If i enjoy my being a smiter then pls let me play how i like and specc i like and not howling in victory when somebody mention our nerfing.

Chesnor said it well: we are damage dealers. We can wear chain also. But we have crappy range, long casting time, no critical dmg and no quickcast ability.

If we are healers (independent on our specc) then nerf the staff of the friar because they are also a healer class.

ps.
I don't care with nerf, i won't respecc my cleric (44/27/14).

__________________
Killerbee lvl 50 Cleric
7XX Armorcrafter
Carnificis Ministerium

"[Party] Hitokiri "but if u come here ill ave to pass down my medal of crazyness to u"

I'm still waiting Hito...

 

[Krillin.]

Originally posted by robillard
I have to agree with krillin on the point about infiltrators, the trend in there creation is really damaging the integrity of the realm as whole, both in terms of its offensive and defensive capabilities.

i'm suprised someone actually noticed what i said i'm usually told i talk crap all the time or am a liar or something :/

interesting post and in my case i was posting around the theme that everyone wants to be known or feared in the game as is it not the ultimate accolade to be known and respected by the others we play? Well when ever we do a list of who is repsected it has always been stealthers. From the early days of Vestax and Sinister to recent stealthers of Niar, Trad and Azal stealthers always top the most respected list which in turn attracts and encourages people to make one of these characters for the possibility of realm fame and recognition. The fact that they are also near the top of realm point charts adds as well. In my opinion this is a design fault of the mythic team by putting too much emphasis on the stealth community. With this current trend of creating scouts and infiltrators spreading like a virus the realm of albion is hurting itself. I believe we probably have more active level 50 cabalists than level 50 sorcerers. The BG's themselves are just a stealthers playground and because of this lack of CC i do honestly feel that albion is lacking. Other realms may be having similar problems but i honestly feel that if this current trend continues then fighting the albions will soon become a case of finding the stealthers rather than RvR for we seem to be heading that way.

I await some more comments about me being full of crap after this...

 

[robillard]

Originally posted by geniusdaoc
U cheering at clerics being nerfed if I got it right ? LOL. U'll be cheering when they improve mid or hib classes then ? U played albion or ?
Anyway, the smite dmg reduction isnt my problem, the mez timer will be a big problem, that's why i lvl up my minstrel atm
And please, don't tell ppl how to play without giving us your ingame name please.

Gen.

three points here

I've played long enough to know you're a twat, who seldom plays in albion any more, who's been in more guilds than most, and has been kicked out as many for causing general upset ( I was in LoE with you for a while)

secondly this conception you have of me hating alb and loving the other realms, is probably more aplicable to you, I've never left albion to play in Hibernia unlike you, believing the nerf is justified neither means I hate albion nor does it mean I want to improve hib/mid class.

Finally this character is now my main so let my knowledge of the realm in the last 6 months be sufficient

 

[geniusdaoc]

Originally posted by robillard


three points here

I've played long enough to know you're a twat, who seldom plays in albion any more, who's been in more guilds than most, and has been kicked out as many for causing general upset ( I was in LoE with you for a while)

secondly this conception you have of me hating alb and loving the other realms, is probably more aplicable to you, I've never left albion to play in Hibernia unlike you, believing the nerf is justified neither means I hate albion nor does it mean I want to improve hib/mid class.

Finally this character is now my main so let my knowledge of the realm in the last 6 months be sufficient

I play Albion all the time, I've never been kicked from any guild. I don't mind playing another realm on another server and you won't tell me what to do or not to do either.
I think I know who you are as well.

Gen.

PS : You completely answer next to the point as well

 

[old.linnet]

Re: Re: On clerics and the future of Albion

Originally posted by Krillin.


The BG's themselves are just a stealthers playground and because of this lack of CC i do honestly feel that albion is lacking.

Sad thing (which I am finding in groups when I break out my alt) is that with CCers being quite limited in number at lower levels, groups don't really know how to use them well in PvE, even when they do have one (sure, this always used to be true sub-25 or so when I was levelling, but after that, people pretty much wised up and it meant our mezzers/tanks/et al were fairly sharp from having 50 odd levels of practice).

Trend seems to be to use more AE/PBAE damage type groups, and have wizards use single target root for CC if needed, or else stick to purple mobs that aren't social.

The reason I say it is sad is that by not using CCers well, they're effectively less welcome in groups and hence harder to level. (Probably we got lucky in that minstrels are liked for psong anyway)




Lin

 

[robyne_hud]

Originally posted by Danyan
Smite clerics aren't against the concept of balanced teams, just put them in as a damager not a healer. Just because you think all clerics should be healers doesn't mean it is so. Albion is not the only realm with healers with large damage potential, Hibernia has the mentalist.

The problem is that most smite clerics do not say they are smite at the outset. They just say Cleric LFG and you take them in cos you need a healer!

OK - so if they said they were smiters very few groups would have them in. But it is disappointing to take on a cleric intending their role to be a healer and then finding out they are smiters.

How can you plan a balanced group when you do not know the specs?
(and yes this should also apply to other classes e.g. theurgy for CC when they've specced in earth or air, Wizzy for damage when they've specced in Ice)

 

[old.Kladen]

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Its that kind of attitude that keeps infils/scouts out of exp groups in the first place. All the time people percieve stealthers to be in some way 'selfish' or not rolling chararcters 'for the realm' they will always have a hard time grouping.....

You should play this game for your own enjoyment, and not compromise and play a class you don't really enjoy just because its 'good for the realm'. If you enjoy playing Albions one billionth Earth Theurgist just because you get grouped easy and are 'good for the realm', be my guest. But some people don't enjoy classes like that, and play stealthers. Sure they find grouping hard, but not because they are selfish players, but because the class they enjoy playing the most has least to offer groups.

it all balances out PvE/PvP they own so much in RvR but they lack in PvE. its just the way it is. opposite would be a paladin.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Yet again the mindless mass that is Albion's dumber tanks jump the bandwagon - checking facts is obviously not something they need concern themselves with, as they are right by default

Obviously we should force all armsmen to spec S/S; pole is shit in PvE after all, and we wouldn't want anything taht isn't PvE optimal on the loose, now would we?

The effect will be a reduced amount of clerics to rez you in emain, as we'll be happily parked in the PK buffing our rogues - but that's what you wanted all along, isn't it?