Olympic Opening Ceremony

[Scouse]

As for the British Empire, once again you can't compare 19th century value systems to 21st century ones and let them off the hook because "they're a bit behind".

Apart from the fact that I don't believe that they have a "19th century value system" I think, to a large extent, you can. You have to remember - the state still represents the people.

.....prisoners are harvested for their organs; this is a new twist that even the nastiest totalitarian states haven't cottoned on to before; and we turn a blind eye because its politically and economically expedient to do so.

The largest market for these organs is the western world. The US and UK being big destinations (despite protestations to the contrary). We are indirectly responsible for this market - and it's only because it's difficult to harvest our own populations. We import (under false pretences) because it's increasingly difficult to get hold of organs. Gordo wants to grab organs without consent, partly to help the UK free itself of this market, partly because he believes it's the right thing to do and partly because he's a Nazi fuck. But don't think for a second that we don't do this ourselves.

It's just another in a long line of "atrocities that China perpetrates" that the West uses as an excuse to have a pop at them, despite us being neck-deep in foul-smelling shit of our own making.

The problem with China is that they're a special case; if the largest country in the world becomes the largest economy (likely) and largest military power (possibly) when they're still a repressive one-party state with nasty social policies, then they'll set the tone for the next 100-200 years, not just for China, but for all of us.

I agree with this. However, I'm just not that bothered if they set the agenda - because as far as I'm concerned the United States is demonstrably worse in many cases. May the least-worst regime win!

The British, as a rule are not "blind to our own massive fuck-ups"

You're only saying that because you're blind to them

 

[DaGaffer]

Apart from the fact that I don't believe that they have a "19th century value system" I think, to a large extent, you can. You have to remember - the state still represents the people.

I didn't say the Chinese have a 19th century value system, I said you shouldn't let China get away with shit because we had an empire once. "The state represents the people"? Really, when was the last time the Chinese people had a say in how the state represents them? You could argue that as dictatorships go, the Chinese one is relatively benign (I wouldn't agree, but its open to debate), but its still a dictatorship, and it still represents a value system inimicable to ours. And I notice you don't defend their environmental record.

The largest market for these organs is the western world. The US and UK being big destinations (despite protestations to the contrary). We are indirectly responsible for this market - and it's only because it's difficult to harvest our own populations. We import (under false pretences) because it's increasingly difficult to get hold of organs. Gordo wants to grab organs without consent, partly to help the UK free itself of this market, partly because he believes it's the right thing to do and partly because he's a Nazi fuck. But don't think for a second that we don't do this ourselves.

It's just another in a long line of "atrocities that China perpetrates" that the West uses as an excuse to have a pop at them, despite us being neck-deep in foul-smelling shit of our own making.

Sorry, you're going to have to back that one up. I've heard of cases of foreigners going to China to have transplants, but they do it very much against the advice of the RCS (who have condemned Chinese prisoner harvesting) and prisoner organs certainly aren't used in the UK.

I agree with this. However, I'm just not that bothered if they set the agenda - because as far as I'm concerned the United States is demonstrably worse in many cases. May the least-worst regime win!

That's because you're not paying attention. Look at the Chinese in Africa; they're playing the neo-colonial game very effectively, not least in Zimbabwe, but all over the continent.

You're only saying that because you're blind to them

And you're saying that because you're allowed to, which is always going to be the trump card in any debate about the rights and wrongs of China. My biggest worry is that we become more like them every day, rather than them becoming more like us. Is that a racist mindset? Yep, 'fraid so (actually "culturalist", but whatever), but I make no apologies for it. Our system is bad, but theirs is worse.

 

[Chilly]

Whats wrong with harvesting organs from criminals who have been sentenced to death?

Ignoring the moral implications of the death sentence itself, the harvesting is clearly of benefit to society and means they crim has a hope of paying back some social debt they incurred by raping/pillaging/murdering/whatever.

 

[tris-]

they dont do it in britain so no one is allowed to do it.

you didnt know?

 

[DaGaffer]

Whats wrong with harvesting organs from criminals who have been sentenced to death?

Ignoring the moral implications of the death sentence itself, the harvesting is clearly of benefit to society and means they crim has a hope of paying back some social debt they incurred by raping/pillaging/murdering/whatever.

Read some Larry Niven and then you'll understand the end result of this idea.

 

[Moriath]

It appears some of it was faked also

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | China Olympic ceremony star mimed

 

[tris-]

OH NOES

my life is over

faked or not, everything theyve done is probably better than what we will pull out the hat.

 

[Sar]

The problem with China is that they're a special case; if the largest country in the world becomes the largest economy (likely) and largest military power (possibly) when they're still a repressive one-party state with nasty social policies, then they'll set the tone for the next 100-200 years, not just for China, but for all of us.

It's already happening.

Look at what has happened in the western world since 9/11 and how many civil liberties have been eroded or arbitrarily destroyed - all in the name of "National Security".

It's happened (Patriot Act, Guantanamo Bay) and happening still in the US, and it's happening here as well.

Only today it's been announced that local Councils will be allowed to snoop through your internet logs by requesting a historical record of all the sites you've visited at home from your ISP. WTF? Is it just me that thinks "Hey, hang on here a fucking minute..."?

Long gone are the days when Police were the only ones allowed to get a record of your phone calls from BT. And even then that was only with a court order signed by a judge.

 

[Sar]

OH NOES

my life is over

faked or not, everything theyve done is probably better than what we will pull out the hat.

Don't doubt that for a second.

Because after the opening ceremony organised by and starring a bunch of burberry wearing chavs swilling cider while restraining their pitbulls on a lead made out of a rope the rest of the "celebrations" would probably be outdone by our local car boot sale in terms of spectacle.




Apathy UK. Yay!