Off-topic Mafia #7 Game Thread

[fl3a]

i would think that such constructive criticism is useful in increasing the overall level of play, making further games involving experienced players more fun

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well hope ECA is happy about himself now

Ruined my perfect record. Bah.

And i was curious of the ending, it just seems like a bad move. With any logic. I can see why you ended it Iceforge, but can't say there's any good reason when the town could've won because of it.

I was dead certain ECA and possibly Levin were mafia though. Playstyle was so towards it, until i got killed and things went a bit silly.

Have to wonder why they killed me though, as ECA and i had this heated debate going on which would've ended in one killing the other, but i guess i was a liabilty

 

[Levin]

.
The would be a 50% chance that you and Fl3a would choose to the same target tonight, so 50% chance for no nightkill and then town victory, or 50% chance for nightkill and then mafia victory, making the game essentially as meaningfull as a coin toss.

Actually, Fl3a would know that either I or Vasconcelos was the doc, since the doc can't protect himself. With Vasc dead, he should be able to figure out that murdering me would ensure the win. The coin toss you speak of only works if the doc can protect himself.

And really, the cointoss feel would be just like the townies have it every day when trying to vote someone. It wouldn't be any more a coin toss for the mafia to figure out who the doc was, in my opinion.

I think the townies may need that very small edge because, as we see, mafia wins almost every game as it is now. I chose to keep my docness a secret this time just so it would be possible to survive the last night, but I'm sure Fl3awould have just murdered me anyway, so it might be a moot point. It was just that last straw I was hoping for (since it seems Fl3a thought the doc could protect himself in one of the posts he made) and it got pulled away, hehe.

 

[fl3a]

yeah i did think that the doc could protect himself.
and tohtori was killed due to suspicions of him being the cop, along with the idea of framing ECA of trying to fake innocence by it being too obvious

 

[old.Tohtori]

Actually, Fl3a would know that either I or Vasconcelos was the doc, since the doc can't protect himself. With Vasc dead, he should be able to figure out that murdering me would ensure the win. The coin toss you speak of only works if the doc can protect himself.

The doc can protect himself. Atleast according to previous games?

 

[kirennia]

heh, well I was completely off the money on my guess. Looking at the final day, I would have done the same thing and voted for vasc; you really can't be that inactive then flash up a cop claim on the final day... your inactivity got you killed.

Lets see if I get killed on the first day for 'acting strangely' again next game I'm in ehh... Good game all round, nice to see it didn't drag on for weeks too, hehe.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And why didn't you protect me Levin, you knew i'd get whacked!

 

[kirennia]

The doc can protect himself. Atleast according to previous games?

Aye, I thought that too.

 

[Levin]

Hmm, I was sure I read somewhere that the doc can't protect himself? It might have been in the role PM. I can't go back and look now since I deleted it.

 

[Levin]

I was dead certain ECA and possibly Levin were mafia though. Playstyle was so towards it

For me, I was trying to be moderately aggressive, doing my best to hide that I was the doc. And I WAS going to protect you the first night Tohtori, if nothing else just to test.. I really wanted to know if you were innocent and a successful protect would have shown that.

BUT.. in the last moment I changed my mind, because in other games it's been very common to kill off the inactive ones - so I protected Vasconcelos the first night. This is also one of the things that later made me turn against him. I figured since he was inactive and alive, it was just another reason he must be mafia. More the fool I was.

The second night I was at least pretty sure about ECA, but not sure enough that I didn't want to test his innocence. He seemed like the most likely mafia target if he was innocent. If someone else would have gotten murdered that night I would have voted for ECA as mafia on the last day.

 

[Levin]

By the way... I WANT TO BE BLOODY MAFIA ALREADY!!! Getting tired of being with the good guys who always get screwed in the end!

 

[Levin]

yes i was thinking the same, that the game would be decided on a coin toss. maybe a tie should be called in this case or something.
but good game mates, i really enjoyed this one

Yes, a good game indeed and very well played by you! Nice play with the not killing me in the beginning.. believing it made you innocent was a calculated risk we had to take, and together with other factors made it a solid win for you. :worthy:

 

[Vasconcelos]

GOOD JOB!

Its the last time i claim my role again. Its pretty obvious that the only thing coming from it is a certain lynch.

/pissed

 

[Vasconcelos]

Vasc - if you'd played a more active role it would have been easier to believe you

wp fl3a.

No it wouldnt

Playing active role is 75% of getting hanged by 1 thing or another, just like when you dont comment at all. I tried to keep a low profile all the game while i make my nightchoices trying not to draw attention on me.

Its plain obvious that no matter what you do, 90% of the time you claim a role you get lynched (see Cornokz last game).

 

[old.Tohtori]

Actually i think not believing vasc was a bit hasty. Be it that people wanted a quick lynch or not, it wasn't thought out fully.

Especially Levin hanging Vasc was a bit of a suprise, as all the signs of Vasc being a cop were there. Just look through the thread, like one should, and it would make sense. Not just in the heat of the moment, i think it was simply a rush to the end and a bit of adrenalin from a victorious night.

Lucky for the mafia though, that i wasn't around anymore.

 

[Levin]

Actually i think not believing vasc was a bit hasty. Be it that people wanted a quick lynch or not, it wasn't thought out fully.

Especially Levin hanging Vasc was a bit of a suprise, as all the signs of Vasc being a cop were there. Just look through the thread, like one should, and it would make sense. Not just in the heat of the moment, i think it was simply a rush to the end and a bit of adrenalin from a victorious night.

Lucky for the mafia though, that i wasn't around anymore.

It's always easy to "know best" in hindsight. How were we supposed to go back and read about Vasc when he never posted other than to say "nolynch"? you say "all the signs" were there. Ok, WHERE? He never posted! Fl3a made a very good effort in getting us to trust him, and Vasc didn't do anything. I stated repeatedly throughout the game that I always look upon nolynch votes as suspicious so how did he expect to get me to believe him in the end?

Are you saying the mafia is lucky because if you were alive you would have magically convinced everyone that Vasconcelos wasn't mafia? That must mean you don't think much of ECA and me as players.

And sorry Vasconcelos for sort of attacking your playstyle here. It's not my intention. Your plan might have worked, had ECA and I been seeing things differently from our perspective. I'm just trying to explain to those who think ECA and I played badly, why we played as we did.

 

[Levin]

No it wouldnt

Playing active role is 75% of getting hanged by 1 thing or another, just like when you dont comment at all. I tried to keep a low profile all the game while i make my nightchoices trying not to draw attention on me.

Its plain obvious that no matter what you do, 90% of the time you claim a role you get lynched (see Cornokz last game).

I think all this just shows that these games are stacked incredibly much in the mafia's favour. Townies are damned no matter what they do, no matter what they say and no matter what they don't do.

 

[ECA]

How can we give any credibility to someone who's silent the entire thread, then when it comes to the last day is oh btw hi guys dont lynch me I'm a cop, especially given he didnt try and reply to any of the theories earlire in the thread. :/

The only real counter-clue was fl3a voting for kirennia, but I think we were all sick of waiting for the turn to end at that point.

 

[Vasconcelos]

How can we give any credibility to someone who's silent the entire thread, then when it comes to the last day is oh btw hi guys dont lynch me I'm a cop, especially given he didnt try and reply to any of the theories earlire in the thread. :/

The only real counter-clue was fl3a voting for kirennia, but I think we were all sick of waiting for the turn to end at that point.

Ofc i didnt, look at Cornokz last game. It did not do him any good getting involved in a theory argument.
Well, this game has proved that the opposite doesnt work either, so the lesson i learned is: never ever claim your role

 

[Levin]

Also as said, I thought the game would continue even if we smoked an innocent on the last day. Otherwise I'd just have come out and said I was a doc, after making sure whoever was mafia wasn't going to come out and claim it first.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's always easy to "know best" in hindsight. How were we supposed to go back and read about Vasc when he never posted other than to say "nolynch"? you say "all the signs" were there. Ok, WHERE? He never posted! Fl3a made a very good effort in getting us to trust him, and Vasc didn't do anything. I stated repeatedly throughout the game that I always look upon nolynch votes as suspicious so how did he expect to get me to believe him in the end?

Are you saying the mafia is lucky because if you were alive you would have magically convinced everyone that Vasconcelos wasn't mafia? That must mean you don't think much of ECA and me as players.

You know my playstyle and i don't do quickhangings, ever, not even as a mafia. The proof of Vasc being a cop isn't hindsight, i was simply saying it was a rushed decicion. You can't argue that it wasn't.

About the proof, it's not in how much he said, but in what he said.

If we look at Vasc previous games, he just had fun, giggle and jokes, and now he's dead serious. Also, he couldn't have known you were innocent by guessing, and if it was a trick, it would've been more efficient calling fl3a innocent. You know?

I just think it was rushed, because i know you're a great player, about ECA, can't say that much even if he is good, and as such, i'm suprised you went so easily with it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Also as said, I thought the game would continue even if we smoked an innocent on the last day. Otherwise I'd just have come out and said I was a doc, after making sure whoever was mafia wasn't going to come out and claim it first.

Yeah, it's the loss is partly because it was ended prematurely(iceforges call ofcourse). And even i didn't have a clue about the mafia when i went out.

Just that, everything backed Vascs claim to be cop(what he said) and fl3as comments on it, would've been countered many times if it wasn't a rush.

 

[Levin]

Ofc i didnt, look at Cornokz last game. It did not do him any good getting involved in a theory argument.
Well, this game has proved that the opposite doesnt work either, so the lesson i learned is: never ever claim your role

Cornokz got hung because of all the inconsistencies in his arguments. He got a lot of facts wrong and Tohtori picked his arguments apart. Still while logic said hang Cornokz, guts said hang Tohtori, and it was about 50/50 that I would have voted Tohtori anyway. In your case it felt more like an 80% chance that you were mafia simply because all the info you had given us was that you had something to hide and that you preferred days to pass without lynching anyone. Of course, maybe others see things differently but.. unfortunately I was one of the townies left alive to vote.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Cornokz got hung because of all the inconsistencies in his arguments. He got a lot of facts wrong and Tohtori picked his arguments apart. Still while logic said hang Cornokz, guts said hang Tohtori, and it was about 50/50 that I would have voted Tohtori anyway. In your case it felt more like an 80% chance that you were mafia simply because all the info you had given us was that you had something to hide and that you preferred days to pass without lynching anyone. Of course, maybe others see things differently but.. unfortunately I was one of the townies left alive to vote.

Yeah, CrNokZ did get hanged because he didn't think too much before posting and keeping it clear and cut clean. It's easy for someone like me to use misquotes and such to my advantage.

Heck, if i was mafia this round, i would've been absolutely brilliant in the way i evaded ECA.

 

[ECA]

Yeah, CrNokZ did get hanged because he didn't think too much before posting and keeping it clear and cut clean. It's easy for someone like me to use misquotes and such to my advantage.

Heck, if i was mafia this round, i would've been absolutely brilliant in the way i evaded ECA.

Thing is, you were making yourself look guilty, to give yourself cover for when you are mafia again. Its a pretty shitty tactic that townies lose out because you want to win as mafia

I also think, mafia are just gonna kill you asap in any game, or should given that you're actually bothering to metagame us.

 

[Levin]

Also, he couldn't have known you were innocent by guessing, and if it was a trick, it would've been more efficient calling fl3a innocent. You know?

He would have known I was innocent if he had been mafia, no? It's easy to come out as mafia and say "look i'm a cop and so and so is innocent" simply because you KNOW who is innocent. No guessing involved.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Thing is, you were making yourself look guilty, to give yourself cover for when you are mafia again. Its a pretty shitty tactic that townies lose out because you want to win as mafia

I also think, mafia are just gonna kill you asap in any game, or should given that you're actually bothering to metagame us.

No i wasn't.

I said if i was mafia this round.

The reason why i battled with you was A: Because i was innocent and B: because i thought you were mafia.

I was wrong, sure, but till if i hadn't, you would've gotten me hanged.

Claiming i play for the next game, is rather rude. Scratch that, if you claim i metagame i'm really offended.

 

[old.Tohtori]

He would have known I was innocent if he had been mafia, no? It's easy to come out as mafia and say "look i'm a cop and so and so is innocent" simply because you KNOW who is innocent. No guessing involved.

Yes ofcourse, but the whole simple point is, you never stopped to question it. You of all people usually do, yes, sometimes it bites you in the behind but sometimes it's your greatest strength.

It was simply rushed in my opinion.

 

[ECA]

No i wasn't.

I said if i was mafia this round.

The reason why i battled with you was A: Because i was innocent and B: because i thought you were mafia.

I was wrong, sure, but till if i hadn't, you would've gotten me hanged.

Claiming i play for the next game, is rather rude. Scratch that, if you claim i metagame i'm really offended.

No, you deliberately argued illogically for metagame. Its valid, but as a game adjustment for that and your long voting stuff, the correct play is just to off you at the start of every game regardless of team.

You can be offended all you like

 

[Levin]

Yes ofcourse, but the whole simple point is, you never stopped to question it. You of all people usually do, yes, sometimes it bites you in the behind but sometimes it's your greatest strength.

It was simply rushed in my opinion.

I did stop and question it, but I came up very short with clues to tell me that Vasc was a townie and Fl3a mafia. It didn't take long, because there wasn't much or anything to look at in Vasc's case, and Fl3a hid his mafia-ness expertly. I know I usually take longer, but in this case I didn't want to torture myself with it, since I knew it would just be one guys' words against the other's. Plus the "we can still win on the next day" factor ruled in as well. I didn't realize we'd be toast for killing the wrong guy. Basicly that means that my save on ECA the night before was completely pointless.