Nub question about savage h2h

[Infanity]

Chim sounded right :E

 

[Ogen]

so you want all the classes in the game to have the same abilitys to not be unbalanced?

I dont see useing a sword as a special ability. But if one realm allways hits with bouth hands, and the rest only sometimes, you think thats right? 0o
Isnt it suppose to be like merc=bm=zerk ?

 

[Osri]

Here some numbers with same 4.1spd speed weapons and even toa bonuses were equal (10/10):

My zerker caps 203 both hands base damage

Played equal rr merc which base dmg capped at 232

For comparison my 2h svg with 5.6spd caps base dmg at 474 and 620 with dps buffo.

 

[Heta]

I dont see useing a sword as a special ability. But if one realm allways hits with bouth hands, and the rest only sometimes, you think thats right? 0o
Isnt it suppose to be like merc=bm=zerk ?

yes, but if you read some more zerkers only do half dmg on the left hand but swing each time, DW and CD have 50% swing chanse but do 100% dmg on the left hand. So.. which is better?

 

[Ogen]

yes, but if you read some more zerkers only do half dmg on the left hand but swing each time, DW and CD have 50% swing chanse but do 100% dmg on the left hand. So.. which is better?

Do you mean 50% of what? Mainhand? Becouse on bm/merc offhand about 50% aswell id say.

 

[noblok]

yes, but if you read some more zerkers only do half dmg on the left hand but swing each time, DW and CD have 50% swing chanse but do 100% dmg on the left hand. So.. which is better?

Berserker damage is reduced on mainhand as well as off-hand hits. The damage reduction becomes less the more LA skill the berserker has. DW/CD off-hand will hit more if DW/CD skill is higher.

Do you mean 50% of what? Mainhand? Becouse on bm/merc offhand about 50% aswell id say.

This is because style damage is only added to the mainhand.

 

[Ogen]

still think zerks get the best end then, altho i would like to know how much that reduction gets reduced. like 51LA = 1% reduced or smth? ;D

 

[noblok]

Here some numbers with same 4.1spd speed weapons and even toa bonuses were equal (10/10):

My zerker caps 203 both hands base damage

Played equal rr merc which base dmg capped at 232

For comparison my 2h svg with 5.6spd caps base dmg at 474 and 620 with dps buffo.

71 LA and 14.28% reduction ([232-203]/203), apparently. (assuming Osri has got 50 LA spec and 11 in spellcraft)

71 DW give 73.28% chance to swing off-hand.

Average damage per combat round:
Zerker: 85.72*2 = 171.44
Merc/bm: 100+73.25 = 173.28

 

[Ogen]

71 LA and 14.28% reduction ([232-203]/203), apparently. (assuming Osri has got 50 LA spec and 11 in spellcraft)

71 DW give 73.28% chance to swing off-hand.

Average damage per combat round:
Zerker: 85.72*2 = 171.44
Merc/bm: 100+73.25 = 173.28

That calc isnt correct if you use styles. Since style dmg dosent apply to offhand on bm/merc. And does the reduction on zerks apply to offhand aswell? Since you just *2 bouth hands.
argh its confusing :=

 

[noblok]

Yes, it does affect the berserker's offhand damage as well as mainhand damage.

With styles:
Berserker:85.72*SM (style multiplier) + 85.72 = something
Merc/bm: 100*SM + 73.25 = more

Proof with a random style multiplier:
Berserker: 85.72*1.5 + 85.72 = 214.3
Merc/bm : 100*1.5 + 73.25 = 223.25

Edit: The higher the style multiplier, the higher the damage difference.

 

[Hekate]

There is an excellent post on catacombs that explains the LA mechanics:

First important thing to say about leftaxe is that your leftaxe spec determines your offhand damage variance and weaponskill! This means that you want a composite spec of 50 to minimize our basedamage variance (see above) and to maximize our defence penetration.

When a shadowblade equip an axe in his lefthand all the damage he do, mainhand AND offhand will be reduced to 62.5%. This is however NOT a damage penalty in any way, we will after all do 62.5*2 = 125% damage compared to just wielding a onehanded weapon, this is a bonus, even when specced 1 into leftaxe (this do not entirely hold true though, just because of our offhand weaponskill is determined by our leftaxe spec).
Every extra level the shadowblade raise his leftaxe spec he will raise his damage by 0.34% for both the mainhand AND offhand.

The LA base damage adjustment formula is:

B+[(s * A)]=y
where B=62.5%
s = LA spec + items + RR
A = adjustment /train which is 0.34%


What this all adds up to is:
At 1 LA you do 62.5% of EACH hands weapons BASE damage when they hit this means you can do potentially 125% base damage

At 50 + 11 + 9 it will go up to 85.1% for potentially 170.2%

Another thing that cant be pushed to often.
Your leftaxe spec will also determine your lefthand weaponskill (unlike dualwield and celticdual there the mainhand weaponskill determine the lefthand weaponskill).

 

[Ogen]

Yes, it does affect the berserker's offhand damage as well as mainhand damage.

With styles:
Berserker:85.72*SM (style multiplier) + 85.72 = something
Merc/bm: 100*SM + 73.25 = more

Proof with a random style multiplier:
Berserker: 85.72*1.5 + 85.72 = 214.3
Merc/bm : 100*1.5 + 73.25 = 223.25

Edit: The higher the style multiplier, the higher the damage difference.

I think style dmg applys to offhand dmg on zerkers right? So thats
Berserker: 85.72*1.5 + 85.72*1.5= 257,16

Or am i totally screwing up now?

 

[noblok]

I think style dmg applys to offhand dmg on zerkers right?

It doesn't . Style damage only affects mainhand on all dual wield classes (i.e. DW/CD/H2H/LA), that's why the off-hand always does less damage than the mainhand (not taking enormous crits and unstyled hits into account ).

 

[Efour]

oh noes, what have i started.

Heya supah troll! Good to see you still playing lol

 

[Celestino]

just take a look at this

should give some more insight about dw/cd/la

 

[noblok]

just take a look at this

should give some more insight about dw/cd/la

Interesting read.

Here was my mistake, cap damage with styles:

Spec    LABase  LACap   DWCap
------- ------- ------- ------
70      77.67   235.17  247.5

I assumed that LACap would be 86.3% of DWcap, seeing as LABase% is 86.3% at that level. According to this it's more like 95.02% though. I thought I should've calculated the style multiplier first, since I saw that unstyled cap played a role in the formula, but I was too lazy. Goes to show: never cut the corners .

I must also admit that I forgot to take the haste effect into account .

 

[Biggilus]

well done efour sparked such a fun exciting argument here

 

[Chimaira]

Only thing is that +DW doesnt raise your base damage (unstyled)

Both my mercs has a unstyled cap both hands 236 damage. tahts with 10/10/10 bonuses.
and they are rr5 and rr7.

where as the higher LA you get the less penalty you get. thats probably why shadowblades have been whining during the years cause they got same nerf zerks did. and they usually not spec 50 LA

 

[Celestino]

coz dw and base damage are 2 different things, chimaira

base damage depends on your main weapon spec, like for example crush, not dualwield, dw will only determine your chance to swing with both weapons when swinging unstyled

However DW does affect your damage cap but only when it comes to DW styles, that btw is the same as with Leftaxe or 2h/pole specs

now the LA effect on base damage has nothing to do with your melee cap but with 2 weapon fighting mechanics

 

[Osri]

Interesting read.

Here was my mistake, cap damage with styles:

Spec    LABase  LACap   DWCap
------- ------- ------- ------
70      77.67   235.17  247.5

I assumed that LACap would be 86.3% of DWcap, seeing as LABase% is 86.3% at that level. According to this it's more like 95.02% though. I thought I should've calculated the style multiplier first, since I saw that unstyled cap played a role in the formula, but I was too lazy. Goes to show: never cut the corners .

I must also admit that I forgot to take the haste effect into account .

Same what I started look at...LA seems too high compared DW.

 

[Garok]

Only thing is that +DW doesnt raise your base damage (unstyled)

Both my mercs has a unstyled cap both hands 236 damage. tahts with 10/10/10 bonuses.
and they are rr5 and rr7.

where as the higher LA you get the less penalty you get. thats probably why shadowblades have been whining during the years cause they got same nerf zerks did. and they usually not spec 50 LA

DW has base 25% chance of an off hand swing ..

Every point in DW increases the chance of an off hand swing by 0.5%

and some such fasnizle...

 

[Osri]

Both my mercs has a unstyled cap both hands 236 damage. tahts with 10/10/10 bonuses.
and they are rr5 and rr7.

ye, base was with zerker too 236 when single wield...had to test

 

[Chimaira]

ye, base was with zerker too 236 when single wield...had to test

So its lower when you plant a offhander?

 

[Celestino]

yes it is

thats how the LA mechanics work, instead of having a chance to swing both hands like with DW/CD, LA always swings both hands but for reduced damage
both resulting in more or less the same (link about it above)

but again, this is something different from damage caps