Nottmoor the abused keep

[Flimgoblin]

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1471.shtml

- The Crystal Titan and Battlewarder will no longer attack realm guards. These two abilities should now work only against enemy realm players and their pets.

not sure if using it to take a keep counts as an exploit or not (I think it probably should but hey maybe that's just me)

 

[[NO]Magmatic]

Just because Mythic changed the way something works (e.g. Titans dont attack guards anymore next patch) does not mean its an exploit now... If this was true, then Zerkers exploited their damage for a year...

Fact is, no texture errors are used, no buggy los, no buggy agro code, heck I cant think of any bug currently that we 'use'... Any realm can do this, all you need is a titan + a stealther...

Did mythic intend this? Probably not, as they do change the way titans work next patch, however, does this mean its an exploit? Hardly, mythic changes the way stuff works a lot of times... From zerker growth rates, to chanter debuffs, to focus-dmg shield, etc...

If it was a design flaw, the 1.69 patch would read: fixed a bug where the titans could kill keep lords... It doesnt, it says that they now wont attack realm guards... And thats more because of a change in 1.69, which allows you to place the battle warder (and I think titan too) at a GTAoE-spot without needing LoS...

So with that in mind, I dont see how it currently is an exploit to take a keep using a ML that in this patch (perfectly legal) attacks realm guards...

For us it has 1 reason, and 1 reason alone, to get some mids into Odin, because the zergs in emain, night after night after night, get boring rather fast... And I think mids (at least a few) had fun yesterday when we defended both Nottmoor and Bledmeer...

 

[nol]

There are lots of things Mythic did not foresee, and this is not the worst of them. Try having Dun Crauchon as one of your frontier keeps sometime, it's ridiculous.

 

[PJS]

Tbh, casters should have a way to take a keep, its not like we can carry 3-6 rams needed to take a keep fast, and we cant smack the doors... (well we can smack doors, but it would take a ... while ... )

put up a fop and chain nuke the doors

 

[Kalid]

put up a fop and chain nuke the doors

And that will prolly go away in 1.70...

 

[Hestethun]

:kissit:

 

[Erinnizz]

And that will prolly go away in 1.70...

Well that is if doors and guards count as pve

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

How come there's only at nottmoor the "Titan" thingie works?

Just want to hear ppl's opinion if it is accepted that Nottmoor is the only keep where u can kill the lord without touching the doors.

Imo it's an exploit.

Discuss!

so a ninja keep take would be an abuse as well ?

 

[Fedaykin]

if you think titans are bad lets not even start with animist pets being spammed in windows

 

[Darksbane]

New Order , Joy Division and Co abuse this bug alot, every time mids bother to go there we wipe em. But every so often as of late albs have managed to grab Nottmoor without taking the doors down using the crystal titan tactics. It'll be nerfed next patch I'm told, still abuse IMO

Ardamel we have never taken notts using titan, at least to my knowledge why would we take a keep to defend we are a tank group. When we hit mid keeps with a fg its not to take the keep its simply to get mids into odins and farm them coming in to defend.

Oh and JD dont have any ML10 Convokers

 

[Ardamel]

Ardamel we have never taken notts using titan, at least to my knowledge why would we take a keep to defend we are a tank group. When we hit mid keeps with a fg its not to take the keep its simply to get mids into odins and farm them coming in to defend.

Oh and JD dont have any ML10 Convokers

My mistake

 

[Darksbane]

Ill be honest and say id like to try it though but payne is too lazy to attend a ml9 and 10 raid the damm slut

 

[Trubble]

[QUOTE='[NO]Did mythic intend this? Probably not, as they do change the way titans work next patch, however, does this mean its an exploit? Hardly, mythic changes the way stuff works a lot of times... From zerker growth rates, to chanter debuffs, to focus-dmg shield, etc...
[/QUOTE]

It could of course end up in a definition of what an exploit is. But clearly its a cheesy way to take a keep. It is also clear that Mythic is indeed patching crystal titan to not hit realm guards for exactly this reason as well as a few other titan-"exploits".

The argument of the game is changing all the time is not valid in this case. Mythic has hotfixed crystal titans to be yellow con and worthless untill they got this fix going, so obviously Mythic views this as an exploit.

However its like chanter pets attacking inside keeps and necros nuking through walls, its allowed to do untill it gets fixed.

 

[Tay]

That's something a child would say... simplify an argument and justify something even they know isn't exactly fair...

we all know Mythic makes mistakes. The question is: did Mythic intend to make ML's a way to take a keep without touching the doors. Think we all know the answer to that.

Let's take an exsample of bug's in game and how Goa deals with them:

Regarding the textures bug exploit

There are in different zones of the realms, some places inaccessible for the monsters, as they don't have, for example, the ability to jump. Even with thorough testing it is very hard to identify all these places, as they are usually very small and hidden by textures. Thus there are still some of these buggy places left, that mischievous players exploit to pull and easily defeat the monsters. Using this kind of bug to kill monsters is contrary to the spirit of the game, and we ask you to please report these bugs should you encounter one. Bug exploiting by chain killing monsters or other players is thus forbidden, and can be punished with a suspension of your account for several days, according to the gravity of the exploit. Would be exploiters, you have been warned.

In here, for instance, Mythic has made a mistake, these things are POSSIBLE, you can do them. The message is that you SHOULD NOT.

Taking a keep with ML ability a bug? I say yes.

Stealthers can still take these keeps without a scratch on the doors, what exactly are you saying?

Which exploit is being use here exactly? using an ML to take a keep? shame.

FoP's in PVE? surely they are not working as intended, OOP I think not.
But Mythic are fixing this for PVE, so presumably anybody using it now for PVE is abusing it?? get with the program mate, remind your friends next time you see people using FoP in PVE and report thier response back here.

 

[Fedaykin]

It could of course end up in a definition of what an exploit is. But clearly its a cheesy way to take a keep. It is also clear that Mythic is indeed patching crystal titan to not hit realm guards for exactly this reason as well as a few other titan-"exploits".

The argument of the game is changing all the time is not valid in this case. Mythic has hotfixed crystal titans to be yellow con and worthless untill they got this fix going, so obviously Mythic views this as an exploit.

However its like chanter pets attacking inside keeps and necros nuking through walls, its allowed to do untill it gets fixed.

you say its cheesy i say its using our initiative...

cant think of another way a caster group can take a keep on its own

 

[Trubble]

you say its cheesy i say its using our initiative...

cant think of another way a caster group can take a keep on its own

It has nothing to do with wether you are a caster group or not, and tbh you dont need to make up an excuse to use this exploit. Its allowed to use untill it gets fixed.

 

[[NO]Magmatic]

It could of course end up in a definition of what an exploit is. But clearly its a cheesy way to take a keep. It is also clear that Mythic is indeed patching crystal titan to not hit realm guards for exactly this reason as well as a few other titan-"exploits".

The argument of the game is changing all the time is not valid in this case. Mythic has hotfixed crystal titans to be yellow con and worthless untill they got this fix going, so obviously Mythic views this as an exploit.

However its like chanter pets attacking inside keeps and necros nuking through walls, its allowed to do untill it gets fixed.

Hotfixed to be yellow con? When? Where? It was yellow con in 1.67, it got purple in this patch and got a way longer recast timer and lower duration... I've yet to see it return back to yellow con... If it was bugged, GOA would have 'hotfixed' it here too, I'm sure... (and just checked camelot-europe.com, and its not hotfixed here)

They *might* have 'hotfixed' it in 1.69, but then it would only have been because of the no-los gtaoe placement 'feature' of at least battle warder in 1.69...

But, if you truely believe its an exploit, report me:
Character: Magmatic
Realm: Albion
Server: Excalibur
What: Crystal Titan keep-raid 'exploit'
When: 24-5-2004 at around 10:45 CET
Where: Jamtlands, Nottmoor Faste

Because there's only one 'person' (company) here that can truely say if its an exploit or not... I, however, dont think its an exploit, or bug abuse... But simply using tools that work as intended (in this patch)... Animists dont do it on Excal a lot, but they can do it the same way (heck a solo animist can take a keep, well, combined with FoP)...

If you ask me, however, if its lame or not to take a keep this way? Sure its lame, I agree, but it gets the result we aim for, and thats mids to Odin... It also allows us, as caster team, to take a keep... Which we otherwise would not be able to do... And, it gets us out of Zergmain...

 

[Trubble]

Hotfixed to be yellow con? When? Where? It was yellow con in 1.67, it got purple in this patch and got a way longer recast timer and lower duration... I've yet to see it return back to yellow con... If it was bugged, GOA would have 'hotfixed' it here too, I'm sure... (and just checked camelot-europe.com, and its not hotfixed here)

They *might* have 'hotfixed' it in 1.69, but then it would only have been because of the no-los gtaoe placement 'feature' of at least battle warder in 1.69...

Search for crystal titan or battlewarder on camelotherald and you can see how its full of hotfixing, caused by people using crystal titans and battlewarders on realm guards.

 

[Calo]

you say its cheesy i say its using our initiative...

cant think of another way a caster group can take a keep on its own

seems u still dont get the game. its a team game that means u need other ppl then only clones... got it ?

its like saying !!! my tank grp can't shoot the bowman's down ... same crap

 

[Killrake]

And I used to respect u Mag /respect off

 

[Fedaykin]

seems u still dont get the game. its a team game that means u need other ppl then only clones... got it ?

its like saying !!! my tank grp can't shoot the bowman's down ... same crap

stop trying to tell me how to play please

i pay my subs and i play to have fun, my group works together to take a keep and so can yours - well maybe not yours - but theres no reason why other groups cant do it?

i dont think theres anythign wrong with not wantign to rely on others to take a keep

 

[Buffer]

it comes down to the spirit of game and law of the game, like so many other games.
u can stand on a stone and pull mobs and kill them without getting hit(law), the server/game allows you. Or you can fight mobs fairly , relying on your group to heal/stun whatever(spirit).

Those that play by the former (law) criteria are cs players, those that play by the latter(spirit) are the real players in daoc. They are the people i respect in game

 

[Ickleevul]

you say its cheesy i say its using our initiative...

cant think of another way a caster group can take a keep on its own

Perhaps because, your not supposed to?
Must be a reason why you have clerics/melee classes.....

Methinks You doth protest too much

 

[Aussie]

why do it the hard way when it can be done easy. I'm sure you mids know everything about that

 

[Killrake]

why do it the hard way when it can be done easy. I'm sure you mids know everything about that

Look who is talking rofl

 

[Calo]

stop trying to tell me how to play please

i pay my subs and i play to have fun, my group works together to take a keep and so can yours - well maybe not yours - but theres no reason why other groups cant do it?

i dont think theres anythign wrong with not wantign to rely on others to take a keep

my grp can take keeps yes .. its just that ur statement was as silly as mine...

 

[Belomar]

u can stand on a stone and pull mobs and kill them without getting hit(law)

This is called geometry exploiting, and is a suspendable offense. The Crystal Titan trick has not been pronounced to be a bug exploit by neither Mythic nor GOA, and thus remains legal.

 

[Runolas]

The Titan issue is clearly not bugg abusing accoring to Mythic, as they have never mentioned it. Seems they found the "bug" and will remove it in future pacthes - and that is good.

As for you Mag drawing lines between Titans and zerkers is imho a wide shot. It's not like they had a choice, you have. Imho it's not good sports to use the Titan in this way, and personly I will never exploit this ability if I had one. It was never Mythics idea to make such a thing possible, but hey, I'm sure they didn't even think about it, let alone test it.