Notice to Keep takers...

[Brannor McThife]

Glauthrong hereby gives notice that he will not be charging any Keep Lords where Hibernians with MoC and PBAoE are waiting. He is large around the midriff, but is by no means an RP cow. He says he will kill all the enemies outside the tower and keep, but refuses to go up there.

<puts hand over mikes and whispers briefly with Glauthrong>
Oh, he would like to share one thing...

Glauthrong: "I R da pink luva!".

Ahem...ok....



-G

 

[Hufner]

As long as Glauthrong keeps to Pink and avoids Purple, this is fine by me...

 

[Brannor McThife]

Well...it's royal purple...all over...thank gawd Twilight weapons are crap...otherwise he'd have purple weapons too.

-G

 

[Ottar]

> Glauthrong hereby gives notice that he will not be charging any
> Keep Lords where Hibernians with MoC and PBAoE are waiting.

Second that.

Until someone actually has a demonstrably working tactic to take pbaoe defended keep, the ONLY point in even going near such a keep is to test the proposed and pre-agreed tactic against pbaoe casters. Several times have I heard such tactics proposed, never seen them successfully executed. People who still insist that “charging all together” works, have simply not yet died enough on such keeps. I too refuse to further participate in their education.

At present, the only working tactic is to wait until hibs move away from the keep and then take it while it is lightly or not defended.

Alternatively, we can get hibs before they get inside our frontier by camping milegates.

Alternatively we can get them while they are moving on open terrain.

Once they have casters up at the lord, best you can do is let them sit and turn green of boredom. In a couple of weeks it will all end. We will get ground targeted AoE and let the bastards try camping lord then.

Ottar

 

[Cadire]

How about sending a skald up, with speed, to insta the Lord, then the healer in the group do his biggest heal... would that bring the Lord out, or does he not respond to aggro like 'normal' mobs?

 

[Fafnir]

Have never seen the lord move from his spot and inch.

 

[Brannor McThife]

The Keep Lord is fixed in position. Requires NO LoS, can shoot through 3 floors of solid granite and do so while being hit in melee.

Like an armour piercing SABOT from a fixed emplacement...

Another option is to simply kill all the the defenders with SBs before the gates go down...

-G

 

[old.Emma]

only successful tactic i can think of really is having a group of sb, take the lord out while all the hibs are in the courtyard :/ but moment we are spotted it time to /release

 

[Ottar]

> Have never seen the lord move from his spot and inch.

Well, back in the days of 1.36 there were them occasional bugged lords. At one time, the jarl we had in Hurbury took off and joined a patrol, running around the bloody keep until albs showed up next day and ganked him, re-taking Hurbury without as much as entering it. Another time in beta, an alb lord was standing in front of the keep’s gates. Still failed to take the keep as most of us were still in high 20ies - low 30ies and then bloody hibs showed up and attacked from behind.

Ottar

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Another option is to simply kill all the the defenders with SBs before the gates go down...

... And Spirit Pets.

Junior can always be found at play in keeps taking the agro from SBs and generally being a hindrance. His favourite playmates are casters.

I've found that during keep raids I can have Junior inside causing havoc while I nuke the doors.

Its lovely when someone is dumb enough to actually hit him, he goes off like a rocket and I can stand outside the keep and heal him constantly.

He can force casters to use their MoC prematurely too

Marvelous

 

[ViscountC]

Ottar is right - the best tactic to clear out the PBAoErs is to use our own GTAoErs on them.

Pity we haven't got any.

So for now, leave 'em sitting in the keeps until patch time.

 

[Freia]

Originally posted by Ottar
> Glauthrong hereby gives notice that he will not be charging any
> Keep Lords where Hibernians with MoC and PBAoE are waiting.

Second that.

Third that... or something

At present, the only working tactic is to wait until hibs move away from the keep

Sometimes I get the feeling we might aswell wait for gtaoe since it will happen sooner.

Am I understanding correctly that mids dont have pbao damage spells at all? Bah

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Til we get next patch, SMs have no area effect damage at all, just pbae mez. Not sure about runies.

 

[Ottar]

> Am I understanding correctly that mids dont have
> pbao damage spells at all?

Thanes have a stormcalling baseline pbaoe DD series named "Thunder Shout" on 30 sec timer. The last one of these, at lvl 44, does 69 points of base damage at the cost of 37 power.

This is the only pbaoe DD spell Midgard has in this version.

Just for a comparison in efficiency with the REAL pbaoe spells we are facing up ther in the lord room:

Albion, Ice spec Wizard, the Steam series pbaoe:
specline, lvl 48, base damage 325, no timer, 3 sec cast (modified by dex), costs 31p.

Hibernia, Mana spec Eldrich, Mana series pbaoe:
specline, lvl 48, base damage 325, no timer, 3 sec cast (modified by dex), costs 31p.

source: http://www.classesofcamelot.com

NB! I am NOT comparing classes here, just individual spells!

The real pbaoe is a terrible weapon. Thane ”pbaoe” has only one use: ability to uncover nearby stealthers every 30 seconds.

No, we don’t have pbaoe in Midgard atm. Next patch spiritmasters will get one in their Suppression spec.

Ottar

 

[Fex]

Just a thought, send a couple of SM's up as close as they can get to the lord room and QC there PBAOE Mez, this should stop atleast 50% of the spammers and it will make it alittle easier to get in and whack em down.

Just got to make sure they dont have purge

 

[Danya]

2 flaws: Hibs have group purge, SMs are dead before they get near from the spam.

"Well, back in the days of 1.36 there were them occasional bugged lords..."
Back in beta we ran up to bledmeer and the lord came thundering out to fight us on the slopes below... was an easy keep take.

 

[Brannor McThife]

That's what the druids are there for Fex. Group purge. And since it is bugged in a few people, you could find a druid spamming his group purge till kingdom come... And MoC will resist the mezz. Charging in and mezzing has been tried. And doesn't really work effectively.

-G

 

[Fafnir]

when retaking mid keeps, just look up and you always see someone look down. A nice ae there and we are good to go.

 

[Ottar]

> Just a thought, send a couple of SM's up as close as they can

Gods.. send skalds in, send sm’s in, send blades in.. We can generate multitudes of brilliant new ideas here till hell freezes over.. but before you continue, consider one simple truth:

In this game, any plan that requires good timing, good coordination and good communication WILL FAIL.

A working plan must be robust. Something that does not absolutely depend on something not going wrong. Because most of the times, most of the things will.

So, lets examine what we have here. The “Send Mezzers In” tactics. What can go wrong?

1. Mezzers die on the way up there.

2. Mezzers get up there and get their mez off before they die, then fail to communicate the fact that they got the mez off and its time to charge. Mez wears off, only effect being we are one healer/mezzer short now.

3. Mezzers get up there and get their mez off before they die, they spam in broadcast that its time to charge, but somehow, only a few of the remaining force charge and die to those who have purged. We are now short of all the people who actually followed orders.

4. The main force is prepared for the charge order and manages to get up there as one man. However, the lord room will be crowded and each one of the attackers will target a random defender, breaking mez. PBAoE casters become unmezzed and use quickast. As most of the attackers are futilely trying to gank tanks and all this is taking place in a really tight area, 3-4 casts will kill outright or take to nearzero HP anything in that 300 unit radius. Unmezzed defenders will have no trouble finishing their job and as healing classes are typically hard to kill, they are very likely to have a rezzer. Everybody is dead, we release. Some log. Some go play alts. Next attempt we will have less people.

I have seen ALL of the above scenarios in practice. Repeatedly.

Nothing of the kind works when there is more than 2 pbaoe casters up there. Nothing of the kind works well enough when they have more than 1. Take my word for it. In a hib force like we had in our keeps yesterday, 20+ strong, they are quite certain to have more than 2 casters.

Ottar

 

[klavrynd]

and perhaps the most important things is that most mids are absolute wusses (played to much eq and don't want to die perhaps?).

When someone calls charge (someone with some experience, not my-first-keeptaking-and-i-feel-important newbie) do CHARGE!
It's allways the same with 5-10 people charging and dieing and the rest standing there like cows at a railroad .

ALL THAT CAN HAPPEN IS /RELEASE & run back!!

 

[mavericky]

Not ever used one before, but catapults dont need LOS to operate, you just need to be able to target someone, would this be worth trying or are there too many drawbacks with them?

 

[krill-nyd]

I agee with Glauthrong and Ottar here, no point. I tried at one keep raid to argue a tactic, called for it over cg, explained it, etc. People just charged when they felt like it anyway. Tactics I've read about trawling various boards seem to to fall into two types: interruptus and pull the lord. I haven't done any of these ... just heard about them, and they seem flawed to me but here they are for the purposes of discussion. Please no flame, I'm just reporting what I found when trying to work out a tactic to counter this.

Interruptus involves interrupting the casters so they can't cast. Blejsisarus outlined one version of this the other day. Thanes/runemasters to the courtyard or side platforms, target something at top (there's a bowman who helpfully sometimes stands at the front. SB's on wall ready to head in. All rest on stairs just out of mezz/pb range. Once Thanes and RM's are aoe'ing charge all at once. The idea is that no pb as it is being interrupted and so casters can be killed, someone tries to engage lord while room is cleared, then kill lord. Simple? Interruptus could also be done by a couple of catapults but you'd need 3-4 as they have a 30second timer. This is all theory, the difficulty of transporting/using catapults and of organising a co-ordinated charge mean ... it looks tough to me.

Some vn boards claim you can pull the lord. They say send a couple of healers up as close as they can get with some people, and get healers to constantly cast group heal/insta heal, whatever draws the most aggro. It is claimed the lord will sometimes then come down.

 

[old.Hellskor]

Catapults are :
a) extremly heavy - you need 2 ppl atleast (fully buffed), maybe a third
b) they need ammo
c) harder to operate than rams -> few ppl who can -really- use them (how many of you know how to change the height of your ground target? be honest)
d) low damage (500 at center, more ~150-300dmg on the average)

 

[old.Tbird]

Just to re-iterate, interrupting the casters will NOT work. Any decent Enchanter will have Mastery of Concentration by now, that's 15 seconds of uninterrupted casting as you charge whether you spam mjollner or use catapults. If they have Raging Power as well you might just as well give up before the first door.

BTW Hellskor I know how to change height, just dont know how to reset it back to my feet once i've lost it

 

[old.willowywicca]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
That's what the druids are there for Fex. Group purge. And since it is bugged in a few people, you could find a druid spamming his group purge till kingdom come...

Just to explain what the bug with group purge presently is as it affectss all druids, not just some. If a druid casts Group Purge, the timer for it only gets reset if a negative effect on the druid himself gets removed, if the druid has no negative effects, he can cast group purge right away again. So, if a druid stays out of mez range, he can keep spamming GP indefinitely without the timer ever reseting to 30 mins, and so keep his group unmezzed and unstunned and unDoTed and undebuffed etc.. forever. (GP does have a maximum range tho, so he must be within that dunno what exactly it is). And before you say it, yes this is an incredibly overpowered bug, and thankfully gets done away with in next patch.. still for now, GP bug very handy for curing ppl who are res sick in pve , that's all we use/abuse it for, honest!

Mal

 

[Taggart]

I got the perfect solution for keep raids, i go for the operation human shield techique, in which u get all the useless noobers to charge in and run about not knowing wtf they are doing, while this is distracting the tree humpers get out ya "death star" and blast there asses back to lesbos. I seen this work in a movie think it was debbie does dallas 5000... can't remember to behonest think i had been drinking absenth that night hehe. Worth a shot doing this anyway, it gonna be as good as the tactics we have the now lol.

P.S. why do celts look like Elton John?

 

[Berz Blackburn]

Well there's one solution for Hib keeps, Skald in groups play Cold / Energy resist song depending if its eld or enchanter thats pbae'ing. If theres no skald in group get resist buffs from shammy for example.

Once ur near the lord room keep going up (u'll start getting hit yes) once upstair jump on the border to ur right and start going around the tower. Now u can "pick-up" those pbae'rs.
I recon if we all do that we can just charge the room without too much trouble.

I tried it a few times allready and still doing it, its working. Those times i tried it we took the keep.
Now for the other keeps :/

 

[Taggart]

BAH!! thats way too boring !! Try something thats got less chance of working hehe.

Should try the trojan horse trick, that one always works! Well it works with people that like Seinfield(which is a complete shit tv program that im glad is finished )

 

[Xtro]

Originally posted by Taggart
Well it works with people that like Seinfield(which is a complete shit tv program that im glad is finished )

If you think its shit...don't watch it? Or is that too simple.

I'm not flaming just curious.

 

[VidX]

Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn


... And Spirit Pets.

Junior can always be found at play in keeps taking the agro from SBs and generally being a hindrance. His favourite playmates are casters.

I've found that during keep raids I can have Junior inside causing havoc while I nuke the doors.

Its lovely when someone is dumb enough to actually hit him, he goes off like a rocket and I can stand outside the keep and heal him constantly.

He can force casters to use their MoC prematurely too

Marvelous

MWUAHAHAHAHHA

Any Middie that complains about my pet doing this exact same thing because they think it is bug abuse will get flamed to hell

Sanya gave a nice explanation as to why pets (summonned or charmed) behave in the way they do... and if I can remember what VN boards thread it was on... will try to find it later.