WTF? North Korea

[cHodAX]

I'm going by the prices of the planes, and I wouldn't count the carrier fleets that highly tbh. Swedish submarines have been able to sneak up almost next to them and could have sunk them if they wanted to, I'm sure Korean one's can do the same.

That is the key, the NK will just sucide bomb the yanks until the losses are so high they will have to pull out. For all the American technical superiority they have never come up against an enemy as well dug in as NK. The fuckers are like moles and have been digging tunnels/bunkers/installations for the last 50 years getting ready for round 2. America could win but the truth is the public don't have the heart and the government doesn't have the budget.

 

[taB]

That is the key, the NK will just sucide bomb the yanks until the losses are so high they will have to pull out. For all the American technical superiority they have never come up against an enemy as well dug in as NK. The fuckers are like moles and have been digging tunnels/bunkers/installations for the last 50 years getting ready for round 2. America could win but the truth is the public don't have the heart and the government doesn't have the budget.

I agree, North Korea is ready for war, famine notwithstanding. For them it is not a case of will the USA attempt to invade, it is "when?". They have been waiting for it since the DMZ was established.

 

[DaGaffer]

There's a lot of rubbish spouted about the scary North Koreans. They have old gear (no, an NK diesel sub, based on 1960s Chinese hand-me-downs - which are based on 1950s Russian hand-me-downs, wouldn't get anywhere near an American fleet), their military budget is less than 1/10 of South Korea's and whilst they have a larger reserve, they have about the same front line strength as SK (without the Americans), and SK has a lot more material depth and economic power to draw on. Most importantly NK has no fuel. Seriously, enough for about a day's fighting. If China stays out NK is finished in a few weeks because you don't need to send troops into all those scary bunkers and tunnels, you just starve them out. NK depends entirely on two things, reputation (1%) and China (99%).

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Well, if you have studied it. Then giving out what sources you used, shouldnt be any problem for you

Or you could do some searching yourself. I'm at work and not going to pander to your childish requests.

 

[Deebs]

This would make a great Tom Clancy novel similar to Red Storm Rising.....

 

[cHodAX]

This would make a great Tom Clancy novel similar to Red Storm Rising.....

He needs to team up with Larry Bond again, we need more epics!

 

[Reno]

He needs to team up with Larry Bond again, we need more epics!

IIRC Larry Bond already did the Korean War mkII.

As for DaGaffer, please research the NK Artillery. They have some of the best gun systems and they have tons of it ( yes they can shoot all over Seoul with them). Artillery wise they are about No1.

Danita

 

[Scouse]

Well, if you have studied it. Then giving out what sources you used, shouldnt be any problem for you

Or you could do some searching yourself. I'm at work and not going to pander to your childish requests.

Well said Wazz. It's a shite thing to do.


Anyway - what i wanted to say was:

6 million people will starve to death in the next year.

I cant believe in a world of Human rights this genocide is allowed to continue with no intervention.

Does the trade embargo include food?

If so, it's our fault. As usual.

 

[Deebs]

IIRC Larry Bond already did the Korean War mkII.

As for DaGaffer, please research the NK Artillery. They have some of the best gun systems and they have tons of it ( yes they can shoot all over Seoul with them). Artillery wise they are about No1.

Danita

Can you provide a little more information on the type of weaponary they have at their disposal so I can compare it to the vast array of US/UK systems?

 

[cHodAX]

IIRC Larry Bond already did the Korean War mkII.

As for DaGaffer, please research the NK Artillery. They have some of the best gun systems and they have tons of it ( yes they can shoot all over Seoul with them). Artillery wise they are about No1.

Danita

He did but Clancy would have only added to the brilliance.

 

[cHodAX]

Can you provide a little more information on the type of weaponary they have at their disposal so I can compare it to the vast array of US/UK systems?

Well, Larry Bond covered it in his book which was written probably 20 years ago but NK has all that equipment and more. They have mountains of ammo and huge 70' & 80's era Russian artillery peices, the vast majority of it built into hardened structures inside mountains which would make it a nightmare for Aircraft to totally neutralise. They have an entire section of that army dedicated to the aspect of thier offence/defence including missiles.

This is worth a read, if for nothing more than some details regarding NK artillery and sheer numbers. 18,000 heavy guns at the last count, some 10,000 in hardened posititions.

N Korea Military Tactics In A War With US

 

[DaGaffer]

IIRC Larry Bond already did the Korean War mkII.

As for DaGaffer, please research the NK Artillery. They have some of the best gun systems and they have tons of it ( yes they can shoot all over Seoul with them). Artillery wise they are about No1.

Danita

No, they don't. That might have been true in the early 90s but its not now. And fixed defences and bunkers in this day and age are effectively useless; you get to fire once (if you're lucky enough to survive the initial airstrikes) and then the counter-battery fire gets you. Even in hilly terrain or hidden under overhangs you're not safe from Tomahawks (which the Americans could launch from offshore - either coast - at will). Its all a myth. Their military is basically on foot. Their airforce pilots gets 7 hours flight time a year (non-US NATO get about 150 and people complain they're under-trained). Simple fact is no sane American general (oxymoron I admit), would fight NK on their own terms. This is exactly the same kind of thing that was bandied about the dreaded Republican Guard 20 years ago. It was rubbish then and its rubbish now.

 

[cHodAX]

No, they don't. That might have been true in the early 90s but its not now. And fixed defences and bunkers in this day and age are effectively useless; you get to fire once (if you're lucky enough to survive the initial airstrikes) and then the counter-battery fire gets you. Even in hilly terrain or hidden under overhangs you're not safe from Tomahawks (which the Americans could launch from offshore - either coast - at will). Its all a myth. Their military is basically on foot. Their airforce pilots gets 7 hours flight time a year (non-US NATO get about 150 and people complain they're under-trained). Simple fact is no sane American general (oxymoron I admit), would fight NK on their own terms. This is exactly the same kind of thing that was bandied about the dreaded Republican Guard 20 years ago. It was rubbish then and its rubbish now.

Mate, they have 10,000 heavy guns, you might take out 1,000 before they have carpet bombed everything south of the DMZ. The Yanks and SK have superb counter battery systems but not even close to enough to counter the sheer amount of heavy guns NK has. If NK used them wisely and kept them spread out it is a fucking nightmare to even make a dent in thier artillery forces. Do not forget terrain in all this, it is highly mountainous country and aircraft will not be at their optimum best in such conditions.

Btw have you looked at how little the Yanks have in the penninsula these days? NK can't win and occupy the whole country but they can inflict massive casualties on SK along with all the U.S. bases in the country. Try selling that to an American people who are sick of fighting wars for other countries, don't fear communism any longer and have a national debt that is pushing the country towards bankruptcy.

 

[Wij]

The SK army with US air and missile support could roll over the NK one in days for logistical reasons as much as anything else but NK would be able to do huge damage to Seoul as they went down. It's not worth it to anyone for what little there is to gain. Even before taking China into account.

 

[cHodAX]

The SK army with US air and missile support could roll over the NK one in days for logistical reasons as much as anything else but NK would be able to do huge damage to Seoul as they went down. It's not worth it to anyone for what little there is to gain. Even before taking China into account.

Precisely. People always talk about the nukes and the chemical weapons but just with heavy guns NK will bomb Seoul back into the dark ages if it looks like they can't hold back the tide. There are no winners and NK definately cannot win a long fight but they can hit SK so hard and cost the Yanks so much in money/lives for it to really hurt. Infact it could be enough to permenantly damage the American economy which is already getting it's arse handed to it by China.

 

[Deebs]

Precisely. People always talk about the nukes and the chemical weapons but just with heavy guns NK will bomb Seoul back into the dark ages if it looks like they can't hold back the tide. There are no winners and NK definately cannot win a long fight but they can hit SK so hard and cost the Yanks so much in money/lives for it to really hurt. Infact it could be enough to permenantly damage the American economy which is already getting it's arse handed to it by China.

Much like any war nowadays the Air Force would be sent in first and foremost to knock out any threat to ground troops. Show me NK's AirForce that can stand up to a 21st century AirForce, thought not. So in a matter of days most of NK's artillery is molten metal, then what?

 

[cHodAX]

Much like any war nowadays the Air Force would be sent in first and foremost to knock out any threat to ground troops. Show me NK's AirForce that can stand up to a 21st century AirForce, thought not. So in a matter of days most of NK's artillery is molten metal, then what?

You make a good point but have a look at the topography of North Korea...

Ok, so let us assume 10,000 fixed artillery peices, the vast majority of which are on rails in hardened bunkers ready to be wheeled out and fired. These are located all along the DMZ but the big guns are located in the rear area, in highly protected mountainous areas swarming with AA guns and missles. Because of the terrain you cannot just carpet bomb them, yes you can use cruise missles but we are not talking about just a few sites here, we are talking potentially thousands. America has the technology, they have some amazing stuff but the sheer numbers dicatate that NK will do MASSIVE damage long before the airforce even puts a dent in the NK fixed artillery sites.

Then you have the 8,000 mobile peices....

 

[cHodAX]

Btw, this is good for a look...

Bluffer's guide: Fortress North Korea

 

[Shagrat]

hmmm interesting reads, those 2 articles. ta for linking em

 

[cHodAX]

hmmm interesting reads, those 2 articles. ta for linking em

Second one seems pretty decent in breaking down how poor NK's air defence is but it does overlook the fact that alot of the bunkers/underground stuff is in the mountains under fuckloads of granite and re-inforced concrete, even the latest bunker busters won't drop those. Liked this bit as well, was aware they had these in numbers...

4.3. KN-02 tactical ballistic missile
Although it is shorter ranged than the SCUD and No-dong rockets, the KN-02 represents a major enhancement of North Korean military technology and represents a quantum leap in guidance technology; if North Korea can apply this technology to longer range missiles then the overall potency of her conventional forces will be greatly magnified. KN-02 is closely based on the Russian [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']9M79 "Tochka" ([/font] SS-21 Scarab-A) tactical missile, and has the significant advantage over the SCUD because it uses a solid-fuel rocket instead of liquid fuel. This means that it doesn’t take as long to prepare before launch. North Korea obtained SS-21 technology from Syria in 1996 and produced a modified missile with longer range (120-140km, equivalent to Scarab-B missile). Test firings took place in 2004, 2005 and three in 2006 and three in 2007. By 2007 there was clear evidence of it having entered service in significant numbers. The vehicle is different from the SS-21’s Zil all-terrain truck but has a similar hatched-roof configuration. Each TEL is about 10m long and carries a single 6.4m missile which is fired in the near-vertical position.

 

[Shagrat]

i think thats the big worry (for the yanks anyway). SCUD's you could cope with the aim on those things is awful, but long range conventional missiles with better guidance could screw over any friendly bases in the South (which General Schwartz has also admitted, guesstimating US military infrastructure in the area could be bombed out of existence in approx 3 hours, a scary statistic).

 

[cHodAX]

More miltary goodies here btw...

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