NGUK : The bigger picture.

[old.D R E ad]

Well the rumor mill is in over-drive. But what seems certain is that NGUK is very likely to go tits-up quite soon. The servers are unattended and many have already gone down without anyone to update and reboot them.
Whatever you think of NGUK, this is not good news for all gamers and the UK online gaming scene as a whole; even if you never used thier services.

GSP's are droping like flies and a lack of choice is never good for us end users and competition helps keep companies on thier toes (not that i'm saying BW are not doing a splendid job).

So what have we got left? Barrysworld (thank god), Jolt (good service, crappy pings) and a few crappy ISP's servers. Sure plenty of people run the own private servers but most of us in the UK are still stuck with 56k internet access so we need the fat pipes only the big guns can provide.

We are going backwards ffs!

I guess this paves the way even further for Barrysworld introducing subscription based server access? .

Does anyone else here agree that UK online gaming is heading for a crisis?

Personally I blame BT .



PS - Could we please have an inteligent debate on this and not the stupid flaming we have had in other threads. Ta. .

 

[stu]

Maybe if you expect intelligent debate you should post intelligent comment, instead of the tired old "I blame BT" crap. Would it be too much to explain exactly what BT has to do with any of it, certainly what it has to do with NGUK going downhill? Or was that Microsoft's fault?

 

[Embattle]

TBH the GSP situation is not going backwards.

Its under, as it has been since BW folded, massive restructuring which has been required. Its likely that recent problems will make future GSPs build models that work and are strong. Old models meant providing loads of servers and having no income which tbh is a fool hardy way to run a service because eventually it folds in on itself.

BW is still going through the motions and BY will be rolling out a new service, old services either ran off freebies or advertising revenue but the new models require some cross-revenue methods with other products. BY through there Internet services such as Hi-speed access and EB should end up promoting BW through its shops to give people a place to play all these games they play.

 

[old.D R E ad]

Originally posted by Stu-
Maybe if you expect intelligent debate you should post intelligent comment, instead of the tired old "I blame BT" crap. Would it be too much to explain exactly what BT has to do with any of it, certainly what it has to do with NGUK going downhill? Or was that Microsoft's fault?

Sorry mister BT lurver lurver. Thanks for missing my point completely . I did use the word "personally". I was hoping other people might post thier opinions on why UK gaming is in a spot of bother and what could be done. Clearly you don't have one. Anyway, That was ment to be a bit light hearted. But maybe if you looked around you might see that this country is almost in the dark ages compared to other European countries and the US, canada, japan etc. OK, I'm not saying that BT are directly responsible of NGUK's problems but the UK telecommunications industy has played large part in making it hard for ISP's, GSP's and general internet companies and us end users. I know its not the only thing, there are plenty of other reasons, but leased line and broadband is prohibativly expensive in inaccesable for most and this had a knock on effect.

 

[Perplex]

No sympathy for NGUK in the slightest. the owners made it perfect clear they don't care about the community and other GSPs in the whole debate about thier cheap and underhanded tactic of adding a space tot he front of t2 server names.

It seems they got their just deserts.

 

[stu]

oh dear dread, you really don't have a clue do you. It's nothing to do with being a "BT lover", it's to do with having a mature point of view on something without rushing for the pathetic old "I hate BT their loosers!!!!!" (sic) line.

The cost of supporting ADSL is VERY expensive for BT, which is why the cost is then passed on. However, regardless of this, surely the proliferation of broadband internet access is a bad thing for GSPs, rather than a good thing? The primary source of revenue for many of them is/has been their dial up, which obviously no broadband customers use. Without a dialup they must resort to charging for other services (eg dedicated servers, hosting) which 1) the majority of people aren't willing to pay for while they can use free alternatives and 2) are unviable as primary revenue streams anyway. So your point doesn't really make sense.

btw congratulations for demonstrating the incredibly immature and insular attitude that people have generally come to expect from NGUK. Perhaps if you want to get to the root of its inevitable collapse you should look to the way in which the staff interfaces with its 'customers'.

 

[old.D R E ad]

Thanks embattle, an inteligent responce

But personaly i think, as far as us gamers are concerned anyway, it has gone a little backwards. Thats how it seems to me - simply because we have less quality GSP's now than we did 12 months ago. But maybe you are right, maybe we are just going through a time of change were companies realise they can't simply stick up some servers some forums and some ads and expect to make money. There is no doubt thats right. but what models will work? There are many very clever businessmen out there that should have had time to figure out a good business model. So why are we seeing the fruits yet? The EB one might work for BW but it won't help others who don't have highstreet shops.
Just a thought, but is it posible the online gaming industry could be dominated by just a few large big guns like the OS or telecommunications industry?
As much as I would hate it, I can only see subs as being the way that most GSP's could make money.
The problem is that the 'product' (servers) does not actually make any money itself. Its just a way of atracting custumers to anyother product. And thats very hard indeed and very few have managed it well (gameplay anyone?). Creating a massive community then targeting them with products seems to be the only thing poeople have tried and in most cases it has failed badly.

 

[old.D R E ad]

Originally posted by Stu-
oh dear dread, you really don't have a clue do you. It's nothing to do with being a "BT lover", it's to do with having a mature point of view on something without rushing for the pathetic old "I hate BT their loosers!!!!!" (sic) line.

The cost of supporting ADSL is VERY expensive for BT, which is why the cost is then passed on. However, regardless of this, surely the proliferation of broadband internet access is a bad thing for GSPs, rather than a good thing? The primary source of revenue for many of them is/has been their dial up, which obviously no broadband customers use. Without a dialup they must resort to charging for other services (eg dedicated servers, hosting) which 1) the majority of people aren't willing to pay for while they can use free alternatives and 2) are unviable as primary revenue streams anyway. So your point doesn't really make sense.

btw congratulations for demonstrating the incredibly immature and insular attitude that people have generally come to expect from NGUK. Perhaps if you want to get to the root of its inevitable collapse you should look to the way in which the staff interfaces with its 'customers'.

That was a joke mate, sorry if you took it that way.

What exactly was such a crime mate? I'm not here for an argument with you. I was not being "incredibly immature" thanks.

"So your point doesn't really make sense." did you not read what I said? I was just saying that it was part of the problem, not the direct and only cause. I was just asking a question, I did not deserve to be shoot at like that. As you so bluntly put it, I don't have all have answers. I know that.

I don't work for NGUK, im a gamer like you. We should be sticking up for each other. I concider myself just as much a part of the BW community as you are mate. I don't post much but I have been using BW for years - right from the early days. Don't flame me for having different opinions to you. Thats what makes the community so good.

BTW, you made some good points.

 

[stu]

Errr... again, that makes no sense whatsoever. The "product" makes no money because no-one is charging for it. It's human nature to get something for free if possible, or to pay the least amount for it otherwise. NGUK's services are free. It's free to use the servers. They aren't being charged for. They're gratis, cost nothing, zero, £0.00. Are you following me? Now, show me a business that makes money by giving its product away for free, with no other benefit.

Charge people to use the servers and, surprise surprise, they will make money.

 

[old.D R E ad]

Originally posted by Stu-
Errr... again, that makes no sense whatsoever. The "product" makes no money because no-one is charging for it. It's human nature to get something for free if possible, or to pay the least amount for it otherwise. NGUK's services are free. It's free to use the servers. They aren't being charged for. They're gratis, cost nothing, zero, £0.00. Are you following me? Now, show me a business that makes money by giving its product away for free, with no other benefit.

Charge people to use the servers and, surprise surprise, they will make money.

FFS mate!!!!

That WAS my point!

Read what I said again dude.

"The problem is that the 'product' (servers) does not actually make any money itself. Its just a way of atracting custumers to an other product. And thats very hard indeed and very few have managed it well (gameplay anyone?)."

Thats the reason they are going under, we all know that. I was wondering what alternatives there could be.

Are you just trying to wind me up?

I came here for a bit of banter and this is what you get

If you cant be nice, why bother?

Ok, i won't be so nice then...

"The "product" makes no money because no-one is charging for" it." - Well done mate! incredible deduction there. Bet you did well in your GCSE's! (if you have taken them).

Oh, forget it.

 

[Summo]

Makes me wonder if EB are purposely holding back on introducing charges for using BW until the competition has wiped itself out.

Since BW were bought by EB we've seen the demise of WirePlay and NGUK. Pretty soon there'll really just be BW and Blueyonder, who are in an enviable position in that the game servers are not their primary service. They can include game servers in their package without it denting their overheads and, if they market it correctly, can attract a large proportion of the gaming community to their broadband services, which already seem to be flourishing.

It'll be interesting to see whether EB opt for any other revenue/customer generating process rather than just pay-per-play. Collaboration with game developers, for example.

 

[old.D R E ad]

Originally posted by SomeGuy
Makes me wonder if EB are purposely holding back on introducing charges for using BW until the competition has wiped itself out.

Yeah, thats what i was thinking. Very likely imo. I don't think its posible to run a GSP alone in this climate. Shame because it means they are only being run to serve other corporate agendas. Thats business, I know, but is that a good thing or a bad thing? I would rather see independant GSP's but its simply not possible now I guess.

 

[stu]

You give EB far too much credit. It's far more likely they just haven't gotten round to doing anything yet.

 

[old.D R E ad]

Hey Stu-, stop with the "I hate EB" crap!

Just kidding!

You could be right mind, but I doubt it. No company in thier right mind would invest so much money in something without having some idea of what they were going/could to do with it. Oh, hang on... Gameplay and BT did with loads of stuff and that why they are virtually bust . Sorry Stu- mate, I mentioned BT again

 

[Embattle]

I said a long time ago in one of my columns that there seems to be a pause to see whats happening.

 

[stu]

Originally posted by D R E ad
Hey Stu-, stop with the "I hate EB" crap!

Just kidding!

You could be right mind, but I doubt it. No company in thier right mind would invest so much money in something without having some idea of what they were going/could to do with it.

You've never worked for a big company have you...

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by Stu-


You've never worked for a big company have you...

Have to agree with stu on this comment

 

[Will]

Yup, think of a small company as a speedboat, quick and nippy, and a big company as a supertanker, taking all day to start slowing down.

 

[Durzel]

Online gaming is somewhat of a paradox - young 20 somethings with I.T experience (and therefore money) using services they expect to pay nothing for. Generally speaking, the market is one which every company in the World would want to target but the Internet culture as a whole is geared towards getting everything for nothing.

We expect unmetered 24/7 dialup Internet access for £9.99 a month, we expect websites and portals to furnish us with news and reviews (which ultimately have to be written by (and paid for) by someone) without intrusive advertising, and we expect to just pick up a copy of Gamespy and use other company's bandwidth for nothing.

Whoever introduces subscription-based gaming services is going to have to endure a massive (although probably short-lived) revolt by the users.

 

[Ch3tan]

I wouldnt be so sure that EB are holding changes back.

Anyone see the welcome message in #barrysworld a few days back?

Along the lines of "clan server rental to be reintroduced soon"

This was since taken down, so i'm not sure as to wether its still the case.

But if they are ready to re-introduce them it will mean a new revenue source for bw/eb. Will be interesting to see the price structure for these servers. BW charged to little last time round, but the only other big GSP providing them charges too much (jolt).

 

[old.D R E ad]

Originally posted by Embattle


Have to agree with stu on this comment

Hey embattle, what have you got against me?

Actually I have. I'm 24 and I have a HND and Degree in software engineering. I did a placement with EDS, a US company based in Telford Shropshire, the world's largest software outsourcing company. In my year there I worked on a Java based database front-end that was used by the Inland revenue (some of my code is used in handling your tax details hehe). While I was at uni I was a Part-time PC salesman for Dixons (yeah, I know). DSG are the largest electrical retailer in the country. In fact I probably have more experience with large companies than the most people here. But then I don't know that for a fact. Point is; you don't know me, niether do I know you so lets not be so judgmental.

That said, I don't profess to know all the in's and out's of the game industry, like some of you clearly do, though I would like to know more.

Personally I am sick of this crap. What have I done that deserves all this flaming? I have my views, as do you. Valid or not, these are still my opinions and this is a public board. I have never attacked anyone for thier views (maybe in jest). This seems indicative of the Barrysworld boards, I have never had this shit on Wireplay, Jolt, Overclockinguk, NGUK and many other boards that I use. Why are people so rude here? I know most BW users are cool people, but the few who are not stick out like a sore thumb and are more than ready to jump in an insult people simply because they can. Maybe they need to get out more or something.

You should respect other people - regardless of who they are, what they do, age, where they have come from and what thier opinions are.
The "we don't like strangers round ' ere" attitude is tiring to say the least.

Is it because I am a NGUK public admin? If so, why do you have a problem with that? I'm a normal gamer just like you.

You have made it quite clear that I am not welcome here. Thanks for that, but why exactly?

All I did was ask some questions. Not because I don't know the answers, but becuase I thought we could have a bit a debate. I was trying to put a few angles on things that were not necessarily concrete views of my own. Thats what debating is about. I have obviously come to the wrong place.

Right, i'm off to meet my GF and mates at the pub and leave you lot here to squabble amongst yourselves. But then the way some of you are acting I doubt you are old enough to drink yet anyway.

Sorry, i'm being hypocritical now I know. But it pisses me off when people are so narrow minded. If you dissagree with someone, say so. But do it nicely and don't slag people off for not being the same as you. Stinks of Xenophobia to me.

 

[Embattle]

Not a personal attack just backing up his opinion. We don't hate you and you should learn not to take thing persoally or just try to ignore them

 

[old.D R E ad]

The funny thing is he quoted;

Hey Stu-, stop with the "I hate EB" crap!

Just kidding!

You could be right mind, but I doubt it. No company in thier right mind would invest so much money in something without having some idea of what they were going/could to do with it.

When what I said was;

Hey Stu-, stop with the "I hate EB" crap!

Just kidding!

You could be right mind, but I doubt it. No company in thier right mind would invest so much money in something without having some idea of what they were going/could to do with it. Oh, hang on... Gameplay and BT did with loads of stuff and that why they are virtually bust . Sorry Stu- mate, I mentioned BT again

He took what I said totally our of context and did not quote the whole paragraph. He did not even understand my point yet again. It was a joke mainly anyway. So sarcasm is the lowest form of humor, but at least some people understand it.

And you may have been just backing up what he said but he was making yet another jugmental and personal statment about me. You should perhaps take more care to understand a persons statment before you back it up. I don't take it personally, even if it was inteened that way, but it does piss me off that I can't say something without it some prat having a go.

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by Stu-


You've never worked for a big company have you...

Perhaps it is me but I believe this is the bit I backed up....but please tell me that I'm wrong again

 

[old.D R E ad]

Originally posted by Embattle


Perhaps it is me but I believe this is the bit I backed up....but please tell me that I'm wrong again

Ok.

He quoted me out of context and made a comment on it based on the mis quoted imformation. You then backed up that stament (that, agian, was based on a mis-quote).

Like I said, I have worked for a few very large companies. But that was not the point. The point was that you were both judging me and professing to know what I have done with my life based on a few miss quoted lines on a message board by someone you don't know.

So there, you are wrong

 

[stu]

What the fuck is up with you son? I mean really. You must be incredibly insecure, you seem to think anyone who disagrees with you wants to kill your family, trash your car, burn your house down and fuck your dog.

And you may have been just backing up what he said but he was making yet another jugmental and personal statment about me.

Get a hold on that paranoia eh?

 

[Embattle]

I, and Stu I guess, can only go off what you say and thus stated about you not working for big companies. Once you've been here a while then you build up a picture of members but your picture isn't turning out very good so far

 

[MYstIC G]

Originally posted by Perplex
No sympathy for NGUK in the slightest. the owners made it perfect clear they don't care about the community and other GSPs in the whole debate about thier cheap and underhanded tactic of adding a space tot he front of t2 server names.

It seems they got their just deserts.

^ Seconded

Personally I don't give a stuff about NGUK or its servers, I just feel sorry for the people that got conned into believing their bullshit along the lines of "we're the greatest GSP ever", "we've got the best connection", "we invented sliced bread"

btw - Dread BT has sweet FA to do with this so thats a mute point

btw2 - The future is already here, all that needs to happen now is for Jolt to be reborn and the GSP market will have finished changing shape.

 

[Summo]

Originally posted by D R E ad
No company in thier right mind would invest so much money in something without having some idea of what they were going to do with it

Originally posted by Stu-
You've never worked for a big company have you...

I think the point Stu was making is that large companies are often happy to spend a little of their vast capital to invest in something that might make them money in the future.

I worked for a large company that bought two smaller, failing companies, injected them both with cash and basically said "Right, carry on as normal. One day we'll get round to thinking about how we can make money out of you."

EB (although not what I'd call a large company) would seem to have done this with BW. Eventually we might start noticing some changes. I, for one, am happy for them to take as long as they like. Plus another year or two.

 

[old.8_Ball]

We all went through this debate in January when TTD announced BW was to closedown.

Thinking about the options there are a few possibilities which are mostly based on themes of pay-to-play. As that's how TV is going then lets use those analogies....

Pay-2-Play model....similar to SKY charging for individual footy matches/boxing etc.

GSP's charge peeps to play on their servers on a pay-per-use basis. Charge peeps by the minute or sell time in 30 min blocks sort of thing.
Unworkable cos if servers go down or bandwidth issues affect it then do players get refunds/credit time?

THE BBC MODEL

GSP's charge an annual or monthly subscription for unlimited access to the servers. More workable, downtime not too much of an issue...i.e. revenue will pay peeps to be available 24/7 to reboot servers.
Most likely option

THE ITV MODEL

GSP's don't charge us....they charge software companies to have their games on the GSP's servers.
Again unworkable cos if software comapnies don't cough up then they have no games on the servers.

So assume the BBC model is used and monthly/yearly subscription is used. What if software sompanies start thinking..."Hey...BW is making money charging peeps to play OUR software...we want a slice".

Subscription costs go up accordingly...less peeps take up the offer so to maintain a lower price GSP's reverse it and implement the ITV model (charge Software companies to have software on their servers). Becomes a catch 22 and goes tits up.

The SKY/CABLE model

GSP's simply ensure access to their servers is only through their own dial up.
Unworkable as broadband becomes widely available.


The other option is ofcourse the ISP is the GSP. model
Not gonna comment on this..we all know how this works...demon/claranet etc...gotta feeling Blue Yonder will based on a BW type service tho and not just a few servers thrown up with no support.

Finally... what about GSP's pimping themselves to ISP's so that if the ISP pays the GSP loads of dosh...the GSP allows that ISP's customers on their servers. The ISP then uses the clout of the GSP as an advertising tool to get peeps to sign up to their service.

Just my few ideas on the subject...hey i'm working night's...fuck all else to do