Next Gen MMO

[Ned]

Hello all,

Further to my last post about a possible DAoC 2, I would like to hear about what ex DAoC/MMO'ers would like to see in a new MMO.

Personally, I would like to see-in no particular order;

More realm divisions based on local classes/legends..This gives more realm pride and gives classes a more unique quality. While still keeping the same realms, maybe offer regional character types?

Stealth

I like the idea of stealth but I hate invisibility.
I would like to see a stealth class involve some kind of skill..With bonuses to attacks, but at the same time, have to use their skill to hide effectively in order to launch these attacks. Not just a 'one button' hide.

Levelling

I would like to see levelling completely removed ..At least in the aspect of the normal grind we find all too common in recent MMO's

I would like to see characters be able to develop in the way they play. I mean, if a character wants to be a particular type of fighter, they should train specifically in what they want to use. If they want to be a hybrid type, then that's fine. All they have to do is train in the direction in which they choose. By this I mean that the more a player trains and uses a particular type of weapon, the more competent that player becomes in that type of weapon.

Magic

As an old AD & D fan, I would like to see mages have a hard time of it in lower levels. However, this would make up for things in later levels by having the mage become stronger at later lvls.
Magic should be so important in an MMO that I believe that it should be considered quite rare, and not classed as an everyday occurence, so while it is more deadly and effective, it is harder and more dangerous to use.
This also applies to magic items and weapons. These should be either given out either at the completion of quests, or by highly skilled crafters. Items in current MMO's are given out all too freely..


Grouping

All classes should play an equally effective part in any group. If a player has no place in a group, then that class has no place in the game. They should all have their opportunity to shine, and contribute to the advancement of the group.

I have many, many more ideas but I don't want to bore you..

If this thread survives I will gladly unburden yopu with what I believe will make a truly great game. Until then, Thanks for reading..

Cheers, Ned

 

[leviathane]

The days of playing games like daoc for me are long gone, get bored of games terribly quick these days, always the same old story. Society seems to offer more rewards

 

[Bugz]

Some of the best fun I ever had in DAoC outside of rvr was pbaoe groups; exp groups in the dungeons; Keltoi Ant Room etc. etc.

This aspect of DAoC was a great idea - the only problem was the leveling itself was too slow.

WoW took a completely shit angle with questing too (as did WH). Questing only causes everyone to divide up more.

Group-encouraged grinding with FAST leveling rates is the way forward.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'd like to post alot, i mean, pages and pages straight from my computer. Sadly, they're under a personal NDA as i'm working on it to get it out there

 

[Jeros]

I would like a Steampunk MMO where there is focus on PVP and PVE and simcity eqsuqe gameplay in equal measure so it can appeal to anyone, if you wanna kill people you can, if you wanna have a farm and just farm all day you could etc

sounds like UO actully

 

[pikeh]

There is an MMO coming out, currently in its alpha stage, called Love.

It looks really really good from what I've seen, all from one guy as well.

http://www.quelsolaar.com/

 

[Thorwyn]

I would like to see levelling completely removed ..At least in the aspect of the normal grind we find all too common in recent MMO's

Levelling is an important and essential part of any RPG, simply because it describes the progress and converts it into something the player can "read".

I would like to see characters be able to develop in the way they play. I mean, if a character wants to be a particular type of fighter, they should train specifically in what they want to use. If they want to be a hybrid type, then that's fine. All they have to do is train in the direction in which they choose. By this I mean that the more a player trains and uses a particular type of weapon, the more competent that player becomes in that type of weapon.

While the idea of "learn what you do" isn´t exactly new (I think all pen&paper RPGs had similar suggestions in the rules at some point), the problem with this is, that it´s unneccesary complex OR will lead to the good old EQ-grind: swing your sword 50 times to the left to gain a point. Even Dungeon Master (1987) had a similar system, which basically forced the player to exploit game mechanismsm in order to succeed (put casters to the front row and equip them with daggers, so they slowly gained DEX and CON etc.etc)
Basically, the idea behind all this is to add realism to the game. But unfortunetly, realism is usually not what the player is looking for. Game mechanics are there to support the flow of the game. They shouldn´t be the focus of the game.

As an old AD & D fan, I would like to see mages have a hard time of it in lower levels.
However, this would make up for things in later levels by having the mage become stronger at later lvls.

I never understood this dogma. Just because casters in D&D (and other RPGs) start out as weaklings and become powerful heros in later levels doesn´t mean it´s correct, logical and good.

Magic should be so important in an MMO that I believe that it should be considered quite rare, and not classed as an everyday occurence, so while it is more deadly and effective, it is harder and more dangerous to use.This also applies to magic items and weapons. These should be either given out either at the completion of quests, or by highly skilled crafters. Items in current MMO's are given out all too freely..

Completely depends on the world and game design. If it´s a magic-heavy world like Warhammer, there´s no reason to reduce the effects of magic. In a world like Middle Earth, it´s a different thing.

All classes should play an equally effective part in any group. If a player has no place in a group, then that class has no place in the game. They should all have their opportunity to shine, and contribute to the advancement of the group.

So what part should the weak low level caster have in a group?

 

[Levin]

I would love to see an MMO that stimulates and encourages people's own creativity and social interaction. For me, this has always been through proper roleplay tools, but it is just as much the "infrastructure" of the MMO. Facitilating people's needs in interacting with eachother, whether through roleplay, adventuring together, forming factions/guilds.

All this needs to be rock solid and WELL developed as it will keep the game going by itself, just like a single player game that allows for modding.. fans will create their own conent and keep the game alive for 100 times longer than otherwise.

Once that's in place, I'd like my next MMO to have a setting that teases my taste buds. I like darker settings, no disney crap. No elves, no gnomes, no stupid magical sparkles. I'd actually love an MMO set in ancient historical times - Roman Empire, Greek Successor States, Carthage etc. There is a game like this called Roma Victor, but.. it feels more like a hobby project and the game is butt ugly. I DO want a pretty game, with stunning views and vistas, good setting music, all adding to the mood and atmosphere.

Otherwise I would love a setting like the Starcraft universe, with dirty rusty ships, southern accept space cowboys smoking cigars as they pilot their mining ships into docking, and "magic" being more scientific, perhaps weird alien species with strange psychic abilities and bodily functions.

About levels vs. no levels I don't really care so much, as long as the progression/reward system feels solid and help keeping people in the game, on top of the other systems I spoke of in the beginning of this post. A good and compelling crafting/trading system is an absolute must.

 

[Ned]

Well, thanks for your input Thorwyn, but I think that you are trying to judge the validity of my opinions by making yours sound like facts.


I admit, do prefer realism in MMO's, and although I enjoy fantasy settings, I would like it to be almost believable. I think that an xp bar is uneccessary and encourages the need to attain maximum level asap.
With an 'open ended' skill progression, people would be less likely to attack you because they cannot see that you 'con green' to them etc.. I think this would also allow groups to form much easier because it would allow people of different skill levels to band together, not based only upon their level and gear.

As for mages starting weaker at lower skill levels, this is a sacrifice that they make for the abilities that they stand to gain later on in the game. The mage class will always be a popular choice, and as a designer you only have to use your imagination a little bit and think about what they could possibly bring to a group.
There are literally hundreds of spells they could cast.

In response to your skill based levelling view. Yes it has been done before..But if it was exploitable then it was poorly designed.
Skill progression -once again in my opinion- should be based on how much a person trains in a particular skill, and whether or not a person recieves training from another person.
This could involve the player questing to seek out a person to recieve that training, whether it be from a mercenary captain, the city watch, joining a local garrison with friends, a local tradesman, the thieves guild.. The possibilities are endless.

I would like to see questing involve groups of players rather than loads of folk trying to camp particular spots, repeatedly farming the same old critters till they level up and move to a new spot, where they repeat the same boring process.
By this I mean, players in a town could learn rumours by actually talking to people to discover information which opens up a quest line.
Travellers at an inn could learn that a nearby village is plagued by bandit raiders, or a cave that is infested with Orcs are attacking local settlements.
Further digging for clues (may involve low-level mage charming a local to obtain information) could reveal that the Orcs/raider leader owns a magical item!

This way, towns-especially taverns play an important role in the MMO by offering a place to meet, talk and exchange information.
Crafters could play a major part in the game by offering quality equipment to players..All too often gear is dropped randomly which is often up to the same standard as a crafter, thus negating their usefulness.

I'll stop here lol as I could go on all day..

Basically what I'm trying to say is, that I think this method of MMO is better for the community than recent offerings which promote elitist gear/level based groups and solo play.

Thanks for reading

 

[Thorwyn]

Well, thanks for your input Thorwyn, but I think that you are trying to judge the validity of my opinions by making yours sound like facts.

I don´t claim that my POVs are "facts", my opinions are as subjective as yours. I just want to point out potential weaknesses in your suggestions and coming from the design side, I can´t help but look at it from that angle as well.

I admit, do prefer realism in MMO's, and although I enjoy fantasy settings, I would like it to be almost believable.

The problem with reality is, that reality sucks. That´s why we´re playing games. Do you want to feed your character (and risk that he dies when you don´t feed him), go to the loo every once in a while and randomly die from a heat attack? I doubt it. Realism is nice and dandy, but - like I said - should never be the focus of the game.

I think that an xp bar is uneccessary and encourages the need to attain maximum level asap.
With an 'open ended' skill progression, people would be less likely to attack you because they cannot see that you 'con green' to them etc.. I think this would also allow groups to form much easier because it would allow people of different skill levels to band together, not based only upon their level and gear.

So the main purpose of your system is to hide informations between the players or rather between the different units in the game (NPCs and mobs as well) and even between the player and his avatar/character?! I remember some pen&paper systems from the 80ies, where they tried something similar ("Saga" in case you or anyone else remembers). For PvP this is definitely an interesting idea, EvE online has something similar I think. The major drawback of this idea is, that the player doesn´t know anything about his character. Do you want to extend this system to the entire environment? How do you manage items with additional stats/features? Can a lowbie char wield Excalibur in your system?

As for mages starting weaker at lower skill levels, this is a sacrifice that they make for the abilities that they stand to gain later on in the game. The mage class will always be a popular choice, and as a designer you only have to use your imagination a little bit and think about what they could possibly bring to a group.
There are literally hundreds of spells they could cast.

Yup, and 75% of those spells deal damage, while the rest are utility/support spells.
I have nothing against the idea of the mage going from weak to strong. I just don´t see a point in making it an axiom. Just like all those unwritten casters-may-not-wield-swords laws that don´t make any sense whatsoever.

I would like to see questing involve groups of players rather than loads of folk trying to camp particular spots, repeatedly farming the same old critters till they level up and move to a new spot, where they repeat the same boring process.

Well... this is pretty easily done. LotrO does it quite successfully. DAoC was never quest-based. All the new MMOs are usually much more focused on quests and less kill-stuff-for-xp grind.

By this I mean, players in a town could learn rumours by actually talking to people to discover information which opens up a quest line.
Travellers at an inn could learn that a nearby village is plagued by bandit raiders, or a cave that is infested with Orcs are attacking local settlements.
Further digging for clues (may involve low-level mage charming a local to obtain information) could reveal that the Orcs/raider leader owns a magical item!

As much as I like this idea (being an old pen&paper player myself), I really *really* doubt that there´s a large enough palyerbase of people who are interested in getting through a story/quest like that (in this particular case, I know it´s not ). The vast majority of players don´t give a f*ck about the quests or the story of the quest. It´s a sad feature of the MTV generation.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, that I think this method of MMO is better for the community than recent offerings which promote elitist gear/level based groups and solo play.

It would be better for a tiny fraction of hardcore roleplayers.

 

[Ned]

''The problem with reality is, that reality sucks. That´s why we´re playing games. Do you want to feed your character (and risk that he dies when you don´t feed him), go to the loo every once in a while and randomly die from a heat attack? I doubt it. Realism is nice and dandy, but - like I said - should never be the focus of the game.''

I do not want realism to be the focus of the game. I want community spirit, player involvement and FUN to be the focus. I don't want a Sims or Pokemon game! The gameplay I am suggesting IMO promotes player interactivity, versatility and communication.

''So the main purpose of your system is to hide informations between the players or rather between the different units in the game (NPCs and mobs as well) and even between the player and his avatar/character?! I remember some pen&paper systems from the 80ies, where they tried something similar ("Saga" in case you or anyone else remembers). For PvP this is definitely an interesting idea, EvE online has something similar I think. The major drawback of this idea is, that the player doesn´t know anything about his character. Do you want to extend this system to the entire environment? How do you manage items with additional stats/features? Can a lowbie char wield Excalibur in your system?''

Well, I would recommend that certain aspects of a player's character remain hidden for reasons stated in my second post, but I am not saying that a player's character should be a mystery to him..that would be silly.
A player could very well have stats, which could be modified by magical items. It's mainly the character's 'level' which I would change.
And yes, I would allow a lowbie character to access a powerful sword like Excalibur..but the challenge for that character would be hanging on to it!

And remember..these are only ideas..Ideas which I believe will enhance the MMO experience for everyone, and it is not a system which I have designed and believe to be the basis for the next MMO.
So Thorwyn, please refrain from trying to press me on specific details..

Some good ideas in these threads, and thanks for input