new murder rules

tris-

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aty first as i was outraged. on the radio it was reported as being a defence only for females. what about men who are domestically abused and driven to the same actions as a woman?

ive later learned its a defence for anyone who meets the criteria of

proven domestic abuse + for a long time + plus murdering in cold blood could equal a defence manslaughter.

now i know its for both men and woman, i dont know what to think.
one thought is, could this lead to a lot of women getting away with murder? is it more likely an abusive man would be murdered than an abusive woman? it could be easy just to fabricate an abusive husband story, they happen all the time.
but a man would rarely report domestic abuse against him to the police, it might make him look less of a man. therefore, hes lacking some proof he was abused. when he does finally snap and kill her, its harder for him to fabricate an abusive wife story.

maybe im talking shit though, what do you think of it?

also, murdering because of adultery will no longer be manslaughter. couldnt you argue though that emotional pain is the same as physical pain? so it should be the same defence as this new one.

just another way to kill someone now.
 

Golena

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Maybe it's just that I don't get it because i've never been there but it seems stupid to me.

If your partner is abusive towards you, leave, go find someone who isn't.

Personally I couldn't justify murder because I was unable to walk away from a crap relationship. Maybe it's just that i've never been there that I fail to understand it tho.
 

old.Tohtori

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Long term abusion isn't that simple though, it creates a ton of fear, you just can't leave because of fear. Or children, many times that is used a leverage too.

Also, long enough, and it's no longer a "concious" choice and you just snap.

I've witnessed abusive behaviour first hand and it's just not that simple.

Ofcourse, this could be abused, but so can many other laws. Much like insanity clause.
 

Downanael

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Just get yourself really drunk and go drive over whoever you want to kill,since you been drinking you get lower sentence as it was not totally your fault!

Or that's how it seems to work on Finland,beside alchoholics stabbing each other.
 

Mey

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Er.. Tris- I was of the understanding that this defence is hardly new, also the adultery one is a passion crime, and i'm pretty certain there is a defence mitigation for that too.
 

Tilda

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tris, this isn't anything new.

Theres always been a provocation defence to murder.
However, its been hard with abused women typically to decide where to draw the line. Provocation relys on being so outraged, enraged etc that you temporarily lose control and do something in a moment of madness. ie your husband hits you calls you a whore, and you stab him to death with a kitchen knife you happen to be holding.

Where this falls down is premeditation. If a womans been abused at home for years, and one day kills her husband with a knife she hid under her pillow, thats premeditation. She has calmly, coolley thought about it, and put the knife somewhere easy to get at to kill him.

Traditionally, its been hard to draw the line, defence counsel will say, she's been being provoked for years and so it was the straw that broke the camels back. Prosecution will say the knife placement was premeditated and so there shouldn't be a provocation defence avaliable.

All this does is sets it out clearly, so if you're an abused person, its no longer a lottery (and how good your counsel is) as to whether you get a provocation defence avaliable.
 

Aoami

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I'd prefer a pencil so i can rub it out if it's not straight.
 

Ezteq

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lol i knew a woman who used to get regularly battered by her husband (they used to fight like cat and dog but did they split up? no...go figure) anyhoo one time she'd had enough and waited for him to go to sleep then sat astride him in the night gently woke him up then wallopped him right in the schnoz with a chip pan.

yeah i laughed too, i mean shes getting the snot kicked out of her and she stuck around, dont know why she obviously want afraid of him (she wasnt before any of you start with the "aaah she was a timid mouse" defense) she just maybe thought life was better with someone in it even if he is an arsehole than without, anyhoo if he'd died because of her wallopping him with the pan that'd of been murder, i mean he's a scumbag and deserved it but if she didnt like getting beaten up she could have left at any time.

not making a point for or against the new laws but im just saying that not all abused men/women are "victims" in the traditional sense, yes they get beaten up but a lot of the time they choose to stay with the person whos doing it.

no shh right, dont start on me, how many of you have had it happen or know someone who has seen a bloke beating ten shades of shit out of a gal, gone in like a knight to rescue the damsel in distress and then had her layng in to you going "leave 'im alone i bloody love 'im i do" through a mouth full of broken teeth and a split lip. if someone like that all of a sudden decided to kill his/her partner i think they should go down for it.

im not sure of the one where you catch your other half boinking someone else and then kill either or both of them, i can understand the crime of passion thing but i'd say if you accept that then you have to accept that there are at least 6 other really really good reasons for killing someone when its not self defence.

its reet murkey.
 

tris-

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its only being reported her ein the news recently, so my understanding is its a new thing.
otherwise why the big fucking ho har all of a sudden?
 

Mey

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Read Tid's post again he explains why it's "new".
 

Tilda

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Its new because the government thinks the more shit it pumps into headlines about these exciting changes to the law, the less there's bad publicity about Gordon Brown.
 

tris-

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gordon brown can go suck a shit through a hose pipe, the scottish twat
 

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