New damage table!! arg!

[old.Rahvinn]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
LOL @ Skile...

The whole deal about a caster is range!

The 250 (-250) casters now-a-days is 'ok' for you, because it hurts you...

But the -50 you get with your arrow is 'so bad' because you need the damage to kill your enemy fast...

You 'only' have 200-300 hp more then a caster (thats 30% ! more), you seem to be forgetting that you wear studded! That endurance (what you need) regenerates way faster then power...

Oh wait, if it gets to hairy for you, you stealth and walk away... This is still pretty good solution, definitly if you didnt attack and still have camoflage on...

I dont see any fire wizzies nuking my ass for 250(-250) its more around the 540 mark

and ffs it wasnt the shot on the armsman i was concerned about, i was just annoyed that crush vs plate yeilded a -
The thing that pissed me off was the crit on the Scout, 500 odd something - 125, pretty poor considering most scouts hit me for 600+ with Crit and im resistant to slash nd + 12% , Nuetral to Thurst and I doubt Scout switch to crush when they see a Ranger (Some do)

And yes we get studded and look how long we last in rvr! Most unbuffed 50 Ranger (not including rr8 people) has between 1k and 1.2k of hps, an average PA, which Archers have no defense against, will do about 800, then you got Bleed Damage, Poison and follow up attacks. Scouts can shield bash and then shoot the SB/NS to death while Hunters and Rangers get the shit kicked out of them.

'Hairy situation'?? If your spotted by a group just stealth?? What if that group has an infil/sb in it? He leads them right to you and its /release time.

And as Eleasis said nukers cast faster than we can shoot, unless you use a shortbow which would just be usless cos of quickcast and RA's

Wedge you have no idea what your on about, but im sure you've lvl'd a scout/ranger/hunter to 50 already, got him to rr whatever and solo'd every class in the game or some bullshit like that

Rahvinn lvl 50 Ranger of Draconis Alumni

 

[censi]

just use thrust arrows, I cant be arsed with the others.....

And never bother shooting a tank unless hes soloing..... even then take about 4-5 restealths to kill him....

Yes, rangers are pretty shitty.... but fun to play...

 

[-Wedge-]

lol @ Rahvinn

You have no friends in RvR?

Because if you get a nice druid friend, your heat resists should be 40-50%.... Also, if a fire wizard hits you for 540, I'd look into your resists...

Usually I hit between 300-400 damage on enemies... I have 834HP unbuffed (which is high for wizards, most friends I talk to only have 750)...

The PA you talk about that hits you for 800, hits me for 900-1000 damage, I die in 1 hit...

And not all groups have infs, I rarely see an inf in a group, since their always out there with a minstrel...

If you group with people in RvR, your heat resist will be 40%.. You will have 1.5-1.8k HP...

When I group in RvR, I only have 1.1k (max) HP... Thats it... My melee resist dont go up to 40% ... My magic resists will be higher, true...

Thrust me, all patches hit casters WAY harder then you... And yes, I've played high level scouts too... And its WAY easier then a caster...

Because, did you play a caster to R4L3? I have, in 75% of the battles, I'm the first to die...

A group usually goes: whoo we won.. then the cleric goes, wait, I have to get power to rez the casters...

The max resist you can get on crush on a tank with plate is 15%... I get max resist (if you actually spend time pumping up your resists) on everything... 26% - 50% (without ra's)...

I actually hit someone a week ago for 99 (-350) damage, he was using some RA... Sure, doesnt happen often...

But archers complaining about 10-20% resist... Dont make me laugh...

 

[Eleasias]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Thrust me, all patches hit casters WAY harder then you...

L M A O http://www.daocscout.com

 

[-Wedge-]

Let me rephrase, comming patches...

Heck, if whats currently online in US is 'as intended' then I'm retiring my wizard for good... (I'm already close to doing it now)

Currently, resists are level player vs level player... In the US its now level player vs level spell...

Patches might have hit archers hard... But dont think 'casters' have it easy...

Have yet to see a scout get killed as first in a group...

(oh and several of those nerfs have hit casters too!)

 

[thebinarysurfer]

ROFL wedge are you a comedian? Casters have been getting nothing but love for about 3 patches running now. Piss off - i dont believe for a second you've played an archer in anything but prehaps BG1 or you wouldnt be saying that.

Now go away and stop wasting our time. Alternatively post some more totally incorrect bullshit on here to make you look even stupider or for us to rip to pieces more.

 

[skile]

Wedge? What are u talking about? Was that a reply to my post?

I just explained to Vireb that ARCHERS do not benefit from hitting less hard, being forced to melee more. Nothing else.

 

[Shaz][]

I have fun

Nerf me

 

[AbPoon]

Well you'll prolly find that being as tanks get v cheap purge, determination and ip casters are gonna feel it more then you, so you see a tank charging at you, qc root, tank purges you nuke like mad tank ip's if he needs 2 (Prolly wont) you die.

So aye with the lvl target to lvl spell you'll have no chance to use your lower specc'd spells (Such as near sights debuffs etc that are on a say 25 point line) because they gonna get nothing but resisted.

So determination 3 costing 7 points stackable with your resists in the later patchs hibby stuns gonna last a whole 2-3 seconds max so yeah i'd say your survivabilitys much better then a caster, i regualy hit casters for 800+ but cant say i done the same 4 a ranger or scout, count your blessings m8 as all the tank changes are aimed at making casters more easy for us to kill

 

[-yoda-]

do you bow clasees expect to do enough dmge to kill all classes? seems thats what u want by your threads . you do enough dmge to kill the clasees you were built for .ive been killed by archers plenty of times .they hit hard! before you whine about how much resists the enemy has try rolling a caster and getting killed in 1-2 hits every time then you wont whine about how much of a (-dmge) you get.

these days casters have it hard "alb/mid anyway" the amount of times ive qc mezz and its been purged and im then screwed cos i not got range to nuke . or the amout of times ive nuked a inc char and they have ip'd again resulting in my death . hib casters have it a lot easier due to there /qc stun . albs/mids dont get that .i play a theurg we DONT have bolts . we have a hard hitting dd . BUT its a spirit dmge . which is the most common resist out there due to people bumping it up to resistfor mezz . its not unussual at all for me to nuke a hib for 200(-200) "buffed of course!" but its pretty fdamn frustrating whe u die in 1-2 hits and the enemy can resist 50% of my dmge.

i also have a supression sm and when i pbae hibs i get exactly the same thing 263dmge(-263) . at least you snipers can change your dmge types and also people cant get to 50% thrust/slash/crush resist .

quit whining cos somebody has good resists . if a caster whined everytime they nuked somebody with resists the boards would be full .

 

[Eleasias]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Let me rephrase, comming patches...

Did you know that in 1.54 archers got nerfed several times again? 5% miss and fumble increase, bigger drawtime AND a /victory animation when they kill someone which roots you for several seconds and you cant shoot while the arcer is doing it, lol

 

[Eleasias]

Originally posted by -yoda-
i also have a supression sm and when i pbae hibs i get exactly the same thing 263dmge(-263) . at least you snipers can change your dmge types and also people cant get to 50% thrust/slash/crush resist .

You DO realize 263 dmg on a tank with ~10% crush resist is considered a good shot?

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by old.Rahvinn
Sat there for about 5 mins and found an Armsman, Oooo nice chance to try out the new Crush arrows, he stand still, I load a crit and fire....... 740(-84) ........WTF???

So if 263 is good dmg on a tank, 740 is exceptional dmg, and thats with 1 arrow.

Why are you whining? You hit a tank for 700+ with 1 arrow, and you feel the need to whine about it?

 

[Eleasias]

Thats a crit shot and I very much doubt that tank was in epic armor, + 1 shot cant really be compared to anything, sometimes you get lucky shots, sometimes you dont ... the damage varies a lot even with 330 dex+ and 50 or higher bow

 

[-Wedge-]

When a tank has 1800+ HP, IP and Purge, or any of the two up... 283 damage simply isnt enough if that same tank will smack you down in 2-3 hits...

The 5% more fumbles you talk about is peanuts if whats currently online for casters is 'as intended', because if thats true (e.g. spell lvl vs player lvl instead of player vs player lvl), casters get 30% increased resists... Casters with their last DD at 40ish, will get even more... And CC spells that sorcs often train till 34, well, their not of any use at all...

 

[Aussie-]

You should be happy with those arrows, even if it requires a bit more skill to use them.
I remember myself doing ~200 dmg on skalds when epic armor patch arrived.
Me and Eldric were sick of shooting 7 arrows in their asses before they died.
Now they drop in 2-3 arrows. I have never had so much fun in my whole scoutlife vs Midgard.

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
When a tank has 1800+ HP, IP and Purge, or any of the two up... 283 damage simply isnt enough if that same tank will smack you down in 2-3 hits...

The 5% more fumbles you talk about is peanuts if whats currently online for casters is 'as intended', because if thats true (e.g. spell lvl vs player lvl instead of player vs player lvl), casters get 30% increased resists... Casters with their last DD at 40ish, will get even more... And CC spells that sorcs often train till 34, well, their not of any use at all...

Mythic has said something about grouping.. and you COULD get some tanks with slam in it.. to prevent those mean ppl from spanking your cloth butt. You are not supposed to nuke tanks down before they can get to you. That's practically the definition of overpowered. In PVE, yes, to be able to solo. In RvR, NO.

And it would be funny to see casters MISS or fumble their DD's 3-4 times in a row.. I've done that with my arrows.

There are so many misconceptions about archers in this thread I don't think I'll bother to even start...

I'll settle with saying 100% resist vs physical damage every 10, 8 or 6 seconds..

And nearsight.. gimme a magical arrow that instantly drains the casters power pool to 0 at 2300 range, then we'll call it even.

And castable stun, 1500 range, baseline(non'speccable), QC'able.

And See Hidden, a passive ability costing 8 RA points that instantly nullifies an opponents 1274 speccpoints.

Ok, some of this is abit 'vividly' described, but you see what I mean. Stomach it and play, Mythic won't nerf classes so they are unplayable. That's just stupid to even suggest. sigh..

 

[old.Finster]

i still get the feeling resistances do not work linearly by the way... appears to me that between 20 and 29-32% they actually scale up. but that may be purely subjective.

as for the original poster: is it only me or do so many archers believe everything in this game is conspiring against them. dunno, might qualify as paranoia... you re nerfed and THEY RE OUT TO GET YOU!

Finster, <Nolby Pride>

 

[Tranquil-]

I can understand if some archers feel it's like a conspiracy
Read what has been done previously on this site.
The most fanatic archer whiners view this as their bible.
Even if described with a touch of bitterness this HAS happened.
Even if you're supposed to be able to adapt to situations this shouldn't happen in a game.

 

[Gorb]

I consider 740 damage quite decent, considering my level 50 thane, has 1288 hps unbuffed, and with best buffs i have had about 1650 hps(usually healers/shamans are ooc so usually about 1400hps in group). In heavy combat i go down in 2-3 secs, cause i can take only max 2 nukes and couple of swings before i go down. Luckily im shield specced 42+8 so archers aren't my worst fear.

Nowadays i have only limited time to play, so it is really hard to cumulate enough rps for IP and Purge. Yes, I have purge but just spending points on purge and fa2 and ip you require RR4L4, me being RR4L0 now. In the future patches they will reduce cost of these RAs for pure meleeclasses for something like: purge 4, Ip 8 and also lowering the cost of determination(considering hybrid classes 10, 14, and we cant even get determination) making us even less needed in rvr.

Atm the only need for us that i see is on relic/keep raids to guard the people using rams, and maybe to irritate people with our mjolnirs(people from both sides, cause it is practically useless, 4 sec casting time and lowdamage usually ranging from 140 to 240 on the main target). Luckily they will improve thane's magical abilities in 1.53 although practically only useful add is improving our insta DDs damage from 69 to 114, making us a bit better in duels perhaps, but its not the kind of change that would make thane enjoyable again.

Now that i look at what i wrote, i see i went off-topic here, practically just whining how thanes suck, it wasn't my purpose when i started to write this reply, but now that i started i don't want to stop . My original point was that Archers aren't as nerfed as you like to see it. IMO things are alot worse with us hybrids, excluding skalds.

Good luck to everyone still playing their thanes, keep on going! And hope that mythic will someday make thanes a class that is considered as useful as any other.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by old.Finster
i still get the feeling resistances do not work linearly by the way... appears to me that between 20 and 29-32% they actually scale up. but that may be purely subjective.

as for the original poster: is it only me or do so many archers believe everything in this game is conspiring against them. dunno, might qualify as paranoia... you re nerfed and THEY RE OUT TO GET YOU!

Finster, <Nolby Pride>

Huh, we get nerfed. People got angry cause archers actually could kill something (why wouldn't we?) and whined on mythic about it.

They seem to have something against ppl shooting arrows, dunno why. Maybe mythic like assasins.

 

[old.Tdaer]

My general rule of thumb

Use Thrust arrows for all ...

change if u shoot at infils/friars or plate wearers

thurst u hurt ...

Minstrel
Skald
Thane
Merc
Scout
Cleric
Healer

Slash
friars/minstrel and i think hunters .. but i just melee hunters to death .. no point in wasting arrows there ..

Crush
Armsman errr and if i could shoot Eleasias ...


so .. i have LOAD of thust arrows . .and carry like 40 blunt and 40 slash

elf out

 

[old.Finster]

i was hinting at the fact that any change in the game is interpreted as being directed specifically at yourself.

yes. archers are nerfed. they deserved to be nerfed. they are overnerfed.

but that doesn t mean ugnolf toestubber was placed in huginfell to prevent your lowbie hunter from levelling on grasscats.

Finster, <Nolby Pride>

 

[Olgark]

Originally posted by -yoda-
do you bow clasees expect to do enough dmge to kill all classes? seems thats what u want by your threads . you do enough dmge to kill the clasees you were built for .ive been killed by archers plenty of times .they hit hard! before you whine about how much resists the enemy has try rolling a caster and getting killed in 1-2 hits every time then you wont whine about how much of a (-dmge) you get.

these days casters have it hard "alb/mid anyway" the amount of times ive qc mezz and its been purged and im then screwed cos i not got range to nuke . or the amout of times ive nuked a inc char and they have ip'd again resulting in my death . hib casters have it a lot easier due to there /qc stun . albs/mids dont get that .i play a theurg we DONT have bolts . we have a hard hitting dd . BUT its a spirit dmge . which is the most common resist out there due to people bumping it up to resistfor mezz . its not unussual at all for me to nuke a hib for 200(-200) "buffed of course!" but its pretty fdamn frustrating whe u die in 1-2 hits and the enemy can resist 50% of my dmge.

i also have a supression sm and when i pbae hibs i get exactly the same thing 263dmge(-263) . at least you snipers can change your dmge types and also people cant get to 50% thrust/slash/crush resist .

quit whining cos somebody has good resists . if a caster whined everytime they nuked somebody with resists the boards would be full .

You are talking out of your arse.

As a level 50 Hunter I can not solo a spellcaster at range or in melee. The blade turn kills our first strike ability and puts the caster on alert. We then got the second arrow off 2 - 3 secs latter. He has seen us and now quickcasts mezz. Second arrow hits them. But now your mezzed, he just stands there and nukes you till your dead. I can't even melee a spellcaster and I got 47 (with items and realm rank) in spear, my miss and fumble rates are way off the scale, and with a slow swing time we hit every other swing of the weapon due to blade turn.

Our evade 2 skill is a joke, camoflage is nice but the timer on it is shite. We can't change arrows fast enough for rvr due to no quiver options. A cleric hits me for the same damage with a one handed hammer as what i do with a two handed spear but at a slower rate. We got the shortest bow range of all the three realms and spell range also with less damage. Our beastcraft spells are useless in rvr as we can't use pets effectivly and if we do they are of to low a level to make any real change to the tide of combat, where other classes can use a level 45 to 50 pet we are stuck with a max level of 45. But only if you got max in beastcraft which no hunter in their right mind would do or they will gimp themselves.

And since the armour changes I have yet to see a + hit damage from any weapon i use vs any class I have shot at or hit with my spear. Yet the other two realms seem to be getting a nice + on me. Midgard is meant to be the melee realm out of the three and in close combat we as a realm are now GIMPED by Mythic due to the armour tables. And to top it all off they broke my soul splitter bow so I can't use the damn charges on it anymore.

 

[AbPoon]

You think Mid melee's gimped due to armour tables? try having your heavy tank and healer armour made slash weak

 

[Olgark]

It is I play a hunter.

 

[old.Sko]

750 on a 50 tank omg. And he's complainging about damage.
My best perf was 750+330 on some 48 chanter.
More oftenly its something in 340-530 range.

 

[Kobold]

Originally posted by thebinarysurfer
One minor point to the mages saying 'eww i wish i could do that kinda damage'. Quite frankly you're talking out of your asses - i had 18% fire resist at one point and still got the **** nuked out of me - fire wizzies used to three-shot me no problem when they were buffed up.

Secondly and more importantly WE DONT HAVE A BLADETURN, A QUICKCAST OR A MEZZ/STUN. Oo we have a whopping 19% absorb on our armor and prehaps 2-3 hundred hps more than a mage if we're lucky.
Ok i'll quite happily go out in cloth - hell i'll go out wearing no fucking armor or in a pink tutu if you give me a castable bladeturn and a mezz/stun.

Oh and thirdly try this one on for size i quite frequently see 'Your arrow strikes an invisible barrier' or whatever the bladeturn msg is. How's 1008-(1008) against anyone with half a brain cell grab you! Oh i forgot - bladeturns do sod all against magic - u've probably never seen that message.

So roll a dam mage then!
If you make a ranger and expect him to be able to mez or have bladeturn, you're the stupid one my friend