Nerf Stealth (Vision Of Balance)

[Chameleon]

Wake up! Assassins without the ability to sneak up and hit people quick and hard, unseen?
Hm yeah, lets take away stealth/see hidden/hidden attack moves and we can have ourselves a 'knitting' class. We could sit in our home realms and knit nice bobble hats for our casters/tanks/healers to wear! It's not nice to die from a hidden attach move, but then its not nice to get mezzed as soon as you see an enemy/enemy group, or its not nice to get someone to 10% of their health but then see them healed to full health by a healer. How dare they have this ability! I want to be able to kill everything, every time and never ever die! sheesh!! There's nothing wrong with the assassin classes. People just don't like dying to them. Live with it, we die LOTS too. The bottom line is this ...... if we are caught out of stealth, if we attack someone not stealthed, if we dont sneak up on people and have the ability to hide, WE DIE EVERY TIME

 

[kinadold]

Well thats how archers feel post 1.50

 

[Aussie-]

j00 4ll s00k .


T_T

 

[Chameleon]

Originally posted by kinadold
Well thats how archers feel post 1.50

Aye but you are still stealthed to all but assassins. We are the true stealthers, you are archers who can also go unseen to other classes. Of course assassins stealth should be far and away better than an archer. Give me your bow skills and id be happy to give up see hidden
Don't get my wrong, I also have a ranger alt and really like that character too, I just think every class is different and many classes find themselves being a prime target for certain other classes ...... but that's the whole point of the game imho.
It's all a balancing act

 

[Tranquil-]

Except an archer with True Sight the assassin have noone which sees the assassins as their prime targets. And what is better? The ability to see and avoid or to have ranged attack and no ability to see. If you'd get the bow, you'd lose detect hidden and see hidden. If you tell me you rather want that, why did you roll an assassin? I didn't roll an archer because I wanted to own, I rolled it because I like the idea of using bows. Now an archer with a high realmrank is good and viable, but that's only after he's got a whole lot of "adjustments" and the majority of that archers opponents don't have the same edge in RR's as himself. Classes that own and has no real opponent appeals to alot of people, now why is it that everyone and his dog rolls an assassin as an alt or changes main? Because it's balanced. The assassin is done. Most of the other classes are not, and when they change, that will inflict damage to the assassin class again. An evil circle is what it is.

 

[Aussie-]

well on this server they could maybe remove SH
with all those lvl 50 SBs there cant be any "Archerwhine"

Aada Cradle 50 577,353 Shadowblade Norseman None
Agaton Sax Nolby Pride 50 946,275 Shadowblade Kobold None
Anubis Black Company 50 470,620 Shadowblade Norseman tailoring 500
Brittha Nolby Pride 50 21,558 Shadowblade Norseman None
Brode Swiftaxe Hand of Loki 50 270,330 Shadowblade Kobold weaponcraft 346
Creep Nolby Pride 50 1,535,426 Shadowblade Kobold None
Cronoz Black Company 50 92,515 Shadowblade Kobold None
Danne Nolby Pride 50 171,832 Shadowblade Norseman None
Darkheart Ironfist Cutting Edge 50 420,448 Shadowblade Kobold None
Darkomen Cradle 50 293,121 Shadowblade Norseman None
Darkshadows PeC White Rose 50 291,132 Shadowblade Kobold None
Driz Shadewalker Hand of Loki 50 42,532 Shadowblade Norseman weaponcraft 235
Edea Elbereth White Rose 50 426,886 Shadowblade Norseman None
Eeny Weeny Nolby Pride 50 1,805,276 Shadowblade Kobold None
Find Me White Rose 50 322,476 Shadowblade Norseman None
Finster Nolby Pride 50 838,192 Shadowblade Norseman None
Floret Hand of Loki 50 321,074 Shadowblade Kobold None
Fonss Nolby Pride 50 16,297 Shadowblade Norseman None
Gedan Skugg Hand of Loki 50 581,603 Shadowblade Norseman tailoring 7
Hroft Blackhand Black Company 50 203,847 Shadowblade Norseman None
Isra Red Guard 50 216,711 Shadowblade Kobold None
Ivul Blizzard 50 28,896 Shadowblade Kobold None
Jox Hand of Loki 50 425,289 Shadowblade Norseman None
Kaah Venom Hand of Loki 50 373,832 Shadowblade Kobold tailoring 501
Kaod SoulStealer Hand of Loki 50 170,654 Shadowblade Norseman weaponcraft 120
Kelnor Aesir's Blade 50 385,491 Shadowblade Norseman tailoring 754
Korv PK Prophets 50 1,392,499 Shadowblade Norseman None
Lesbos Fellowship Of Midgard 50 101,782 Shadowblade Kobold None
Liriana Heart & Soul 50 0 Shadowblade Norseman None
Lopez Defiance 50 853,209 Shadowblade Norseman None
Mele Nko Nolby Pride 50 414,289 Shadowblade Norseman None
Mhorr Blackwolf Hand of Loki 50 184,709 Shadowblade Norseman tailoring 322
Microbe Red Guard 50 679,833 Shadowblade Norseman None
Necrofeel Black Company 50 68,241 Shadowblade Norseman None
Orla Froesnapper Defiance 50 168,917 Shadowblade Norseman weaponcraft 288
Oxota PK Black Company 50 1,117,314 Shadowblade Norseman None
Rayne Nolby Pride 50 121,676 Shadowblade Norseman None
Scorn Heart & Soul 50 269,834 Shadowblade Kobold None
Shadowflame Spineripper Legends of Midgard 50 69,567 Shadowblade Kobold None
Sluge Ulv Heart & Soul 50 252,822 Shadowblade Norseman None
Soromaar Silverblade Defiance 50 157,324 Shadowblade Norseman tailoring 708
Sos Blizzard 50 334,495 Shadowblade Kobold None
Sweetdreams Ryoko Nolby Pride 50 36,851 Shadowblade Norseman None
Thorey Vattnadottir Aesir's Blade 50 679,389 Shadowblade Kobold None
Valeria Wolfshade Hand of Loki 50 164,211 Shadowblade Norseman fletching 1
Varg Nolby Pride 50 613,265 Shadowblade Norseman None
Wretch Frozen 50 104,210 Shadowblade Kobold None
Zico Shield of Valhalla 50 175,006 Shadowblade Norseman None
Zilly Cutting Edge 50 708,173 Shadowblade Kobold None
Zordo Tiwaz's Emissaries 50 218,875 Shadowblade Kobold None

keep up the good work lol, go for the 60

 

[thebinarysurfer]

<Snores> Old debate still...

Some stats for you to think on (all stats taken from duskwave and are for excalibur server). Last week rps means on their realm btw - not over the whole (top 50 on server).

Levels 20-50 Level 45-50 Level 50 LW Rp's
Infils 429 64 34 9
SB 348 69 50 9
Nightshades 222 34 21 4

Scouts 484 64 34 2
Hunters 284 48 39 2
Rangers 312 49 25 2

<Gulps @ number of Assassin alts on they're way up>

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by thebinarysurfer
<Snores> Old debate still...

Some stats for you to think on (all stats taken from duskwave and are for excalibur server). Last week rps means on their realm btw - not over the whole (top 50 on server).

Levels 20-50 Level 45-50 Level 50 LW Rp's
Infils 429 64 34 9
SB 348 69 50 9
Nightshades 222 34 21 4

Scouts 484 64 34 2
Hunters 284 48 39 2
Rangers 312 49 25 2

<Gulps @ number of Assassin alts on they're way up>

And what are you showing with those stats? That there are more archers on their way up than there are assassins? (except for hunters... poor guys)

Besides, 90% of these will likely never make it to 50 anyway, with 50% just being rolled for Thidranki, and the rest will get completely pissed off at the game with levelling through the 40s.

Not to mention the number of assassins who reach 50 and are completely hapless when it comes to playing the class, or the game in general, but think that because they are an assassin they will automatically become good at the game.

 

[Cowled]

Think it's more like 95%

55% = bg-fun
and 20% = alts, which is lvl 5-15
and 20% = lvl 40-45

 

[censi]

3) SH nerfed most assassins(since they never attack alone now)

Coming from the one of the reknowned buff using Chuckle Brothers (alpha and aussie) thats a little rich...

U dont arf shoot hard though aussie.... but I always just seem to get away......

whats your unbuffed HP and slash btw...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SH is bullshit....

Taken me a month to adjust items so I can withstand your average unbuffed assasin alone... but I can just about do it now...

Good assasins still eat me.....

One thing thats unanimous from this post no-one wants SH in the game (even assasins)... so why dont they just get ride of it???

 

[thebinarysurfer]

Because doing that would be a direct 'we fucked up - sorry to have screwed up your gaming pleasure all' from mythic - and the resulting loss of face they simply wont stomach.

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by censi

U dont arf shoot hard though aussie.... but I always just seem to get away......

making a bragpost about your uber resist and then look at slashdmg

:sleeping:

 

[Chameleon]

Originally posted by censi
One thing thats unanimous from this post no-one wants SH in the game (even assasins)... so why dont they just get ride of it???

Apart from me Personally I think SH makes absolute perfect sense! Assassins should be able to see other stealthers from a long way off. Archer classes should be able to go unseen my most classes, but not the assassin class!! This is the whole point of our class. Archers best skill is attacking from range. An assassin has to be able to spot people, sneak up and attack from within sniffing distance ..... so of course our stealth should be much better than others. The stealth advantage is our ONLY advantage, that's why it's there. Take it away and we end up making bobble hats

 

[censi]

hey it was a compliment......

most archers dont even dent me (specially scouts)

But I would guess you are packing heavy dex buffs most of the time...

id like to go toe to toe with you at some point... (no bufss pls)

 

[kinadold]

Zenich i dont mind assasins seing me all the time, if i had
a decent chance in melee. But as it is now, if i move out i will
be attacked by someone in melee, who hit me first for 400+, posion me and has better melee abilities. Its like mages had it
in old days when they had no bt and was critted by archers.

If you had any brains or any experience in RvR you might understand.

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Ch@meleon

Apart from me Personally I think SH makes absolute perfect sense! (Ofcourse.. You've got it.)Assassins should be able to see other stealthers from a long way off. Archer classes should be able to go unseen my most classes, but not the assassin class!! (picture this, lowbie assassin with SH, he can't kill that purple con archer/minstrel, he just selects it and calls in a FG, tells them to assist him. Bye bye purple con.)This is the whole point of our class. (SH is balanced realm wise, not class wise.)Take it away and we end up making bobble hats (Which is what archers without high RR's are doing now)

Yesterday I made lots of attempts in getting from Castle Sauvage to Caer Benowyc. I didn't get past Excal. Finally after several hours I got to Excal, I got lift with a speedclass. Why give me stealth if it doesn't work? It's not exactly uplifting to see a FG of invaders speed by some distance away only to see them turn and home in on you(50 fscking metres away from excal). These trips was to get wood so I could craft my orders to my customers.
Allthough yesterday must have been something special, there were more mids and hibs there than albs. FG's roaming, soloing SB's aching to wear out those axes. BUT I HAVE STEALTH! DON'T I?! <cough>

edit: "Archers best skill is attacking from range" <-- So is casters. What is _our_ purpose? Gimme gtaoe. That's what archers should have, not casters. Disclaimer: This is my opinions ofcourse, feel free to disagree/agree.

 

[thebinarysurfer]

I requote my earlier post:

The archer class is currently a headless chicken - still running but with no sense of purpose or direction and not very long before it falls down dead.

Incidentally Aussie - i agree that SH removed most of the noobie archers - shame if fucked up all the good ones without a high realm rank too eh?

 

[kinadold]

All people do pay to play this game, and even if your not
that good a player, it should be posibel to enjoy it. Aussie is
an asshole who thinks only people like him are allowed in this game. There is no reason at all to remove 'noob' archers from
the game, since they have equal rights. I have no idea why
someone think they have the rights to wish other players of this
game.

What will come next on your wish-list, removal of danish or maybe australian people ?

One can argue about the elite of this game. Those with many lv's and ra's has a significant advantage. Mythic designed the game
this way, so that you can improve your char and get new abilities.
But if it means that new players without these abilities, or with
a 'not so good' rvr class, cant play and enjoy it, then DaoC will close pretty soon.

New fresh archers belongs to those very hard to play classes.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Removed n00b archers hell yeah takes some skill to survive in emain for more than 30 minutes at a time - especially if u want some kills too.

OK, so removing a lot of n00b archers is good (?), then tell me why the world is suddenly filled with shameless n00b assassins - is there some segregation rules stating that only assassins and not archers may have some skill that makes it easier to play the game? (Hence making it easier for n00bs).

Should there be a reward in rvr for having a hard time in pve? Should you gain a significant advantage for taking twice as long to get to 50 as other classes? (Here I can add that my theurg, which I now consider more of an asset in rvr, took 15 days to get to 50 without me hurrying. The scout took 33.)

Lot of questions, wont matter whatever we say on this board, as Mythic only listens to american boards - and in a peculiar way i might add.

Btw, theurg hit 50, got epic armor tonight.

 

[kinadold]

Gratz Ody, hope that air-spec will give some fun in RvR

Mine is only 42, but i still remember us grouping in Barrows not so long ago, trying very hard to xplain the advantage of stacking pbt to the group
Wont lv him further since i made him as my first char a long time
ago, and his an xtra tall avalonian, which basically puts a 'kill me' sign over his head. Simply better to make a new one.

 

[thebinarysurfer]

Just in case anyone got the wrong end of the stick - i was taking the piss out of aussie's comment (and didnt even get a lame T_T [whatever the hell that means] out of him - i'm hurt!).

Grats odessyus - you've got more grit than i by taking a second class to 50. Personally i either get unfucked by camoflage (and yes i'm well aware that wont happen) or i'm cancelling accounts - 1 class to 50 is enough for me.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Thx

Cancelling my account has been on my mind, but theres simply too much money to be made

I too have chosen x-tall avalonian biatch .... <KILL ME> ->>>
ah well I knew that from the start and it dont bother me much.

 

[hotrat]

High rr and buffs is definately gonna help, which is one of the reasons that aussie and alpha still play solo very well, lots of experience being another reason.

Worst thing about see hidden is the fact that someone with 50 stealth can be seen as easily as someone with 1 stealth.

tbh its not the worst thing in the game, stealth still works fine vs most people, but i still think it should either be made active for 30 sec and put on a 5 min timer, or kept passive but works more like detect hidden, just doubles the detect radius each time you put more realm skill points into it.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Worst thing about see hidden is the fact that someone with 50 stealth can be seen as easily as someone with 1 stealth.

Let me rephrase that:
A level 50 stealther with 65 modded stealth can be seen by a level 5 SH-user as well as a level 10 with 1 stealth would.

Furthermore:
The level 5 SH-user can do it as well as a level 50 SH-user.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus


Let me rephrase that:
A level 50 stealther with 65 modded stealth can be seen by a level 5 SH-user as well as a level 10 with 1 stealth would.

Furthermore:
The level 5 SH-user can do it as well as a level 50 SH-user.

Aaah, nice exaggerations. over 50 stealth does nothing, so only a moron would run around with 65 modded stealth.

There are no level 5s running around with see hidden, the lowest on Excalibur with enough RPs (3500 minimum) is level 33.

Doesn't change my opinion that See Hidden is a joke. Good job that assassins that take it are gimping themselves by doing so.


The other point is that archers not taking stealth high are also seriously gimping themselves. Chance to remain stealthed when nocking an arrow is based on stealth level, so if it's not high you'll likely just be nearsighted, stunned and nuked to death by that caster you're trying to shoot.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Aaah, nice exaggerations. over 50 stealth does nothing, so only a moron would run around with 65 modded stealth.

There are no level 5s running around with see hidden, the lowest on Excalibur with enough RPs (3500 minimum) is level 33.

ever heard of the term 'excaggerate to enhance a point?'
okthxbye

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus


ever heard of the term 'excaggerate to enhance a point?'
okthxbye

Or 'exaggerate to sound like a whiney baby'?

 

[old.Odysseus]

Or 'exaggerate to sound like a whiney baby'?

gratz, u just joined the club of ppl that flame for a hobby

 

[thebinarysurfer]

Flaming aside a mo - i dont hunt casters anymore - that bladeturn pisses me off and adds enough shot time for me to usually get '/face qc stun/mezz nukenukenukedie. I target archers these days. Much easier to kill an equal con archer (high realm rank exceptions such as aussie etc aside) than it is to kill a mage - why - not wonderful absorb on they're armor and similar hps.

 

[bishibosh]

also for scouts to kill the average person can take about 1 crit and 2 normal shots, which is about 13 seconds, or if the person isnt standing around unstealthed in the middle of a deserted area it takes around 4 normals, almost 16s. During this time they aren't going to just stand there they do a thing called "run away", and when they're out of range you cant do anything at all except hope an assassin isnt headed towards u.
Assassins appear right on top of the person and can use snare and creeping death to stop them running away, and if they do, so what just run after them ur right next to them anyway.
So, that "scouts can fire at people from far away" "advantage" thing is crap unless they are close enough to damage them for over 10 seconds without them running at u, running away, engaging or quickcast nuking u. Assasins can stand right in peoples path easily and just PA, and if that hits youve got urself a kill when you inevitably evade whatever stun they try on you.