Nerf Bonedancers

[Balbor]

maybe BD should try specing another way if there so hard to level, DD/snare is a great spell to nuke mobs with, i know i have a Ice wizard and i use it all the time when i have to solo.

BD are the opposit of Necros, who spec Deathsight for easy leveling but leaves them very weak in RvR. There other lines are apparently quite good for RvR but know one specs them so no one really knows. BD spec for really easy RvR, there other line are probably good for PvE but no one specs them so on one knows.

Both classes tell us there other lines are not worth specing cause there rubbish, but why should we beleave you. When people moan about BP Instent Lifetaps (with debuff) and healer pets and you fight back saying the other lines are not worth specing in and you suck in PvE, yet how do you know if you haven't speced them fully. I guess with the new /level command we can find out.

Necro don't really get too much hassle and when they did they were nerfed, and people are happy to use them as powerlevelers and farmers. IMO they should not of had there LOS and enemy keep porting abilities removed because they were keeping in with the role of the characters. Line of Sight, necromancer in shade form are part of the Spirit world and see into the Etheral Plan, there attacks also do this and therefore solid objects should not effect there LOS. Porting into Keeps: Shades being Etheral being can pass through solid objects so porting into an enemy keep would be like them (bit not there pet) walking though walls. Spiritmaster pets can walk through walls and they are in the etheral plain of existence.

 

[Tasans]

So in which of your other nerf bds threads you didnt see people who actually PLAY a bd explain it, so you dont understand how crappy the other lines are? Keep living on your world, but please keep the rest of us out of it.

 

[Jonaldo]

Originally posted by Tasans
So in which of your other nerf bds threads you didnt see people who actually PLAY a bd explain it, so you dont understand how crappy the other lines are? Keep living on your world, but please keep the rest of us out of it.

Similar to enchanters.
Only one out of the three possible spec lines is actually viable to be any use whatsoever and so Mythic allow this one spec line to be vastly overpowered. Then they call it 'balancing the character'
Silly developers imo, can't blame people for playing them though.

 

[Tasans]

Light spec is viable too, coupled with a mana chanter they can do good dmg. And enchantments, every pet class faces problems in that line, so it isnt a chanter only problem. Bds tho in their other 2 lines have to deal with bugged pets and darkness makes them a gimped rm, while ba provides the equivalent dots of a bg1 menta.

Oh btw mana is more overpowered than supp

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

If you know how to solo and where to go do it, there's no easier class to level in Mid than a bonedancer. The only problem you have is the pet AI, which is apalling. I was originally going Bone Army with my boney but gave up at 40 because of the stupid things the pets would do. I made numerous threads and posted on others about the subject at the time.

Suppression in PvE is easy. After going this spec I rarely died but it did make me a bit grumpy I'd had to forego what I originally wanted because of bad programming.

I'd urge anyone that makes a bonedancer or dark SM when they get to lvl48/49 to go to Raumarik at least once and pull Ice Strider scouts. Try it out, and your faith in fun PvE will be restored.

As to RvR, bonedancers are killable like any other class but the pets have to be dealt with first. This addresses a weakness in all pet classes that normally in RvR all those spec points put into pets are wasted but the bonedancer is the first class where the pets have something valid to offer the PvP player.

Rather than getting nerfed, if you notice Mythic lately have been making pet classes stronger, by forcing enemies to consider the pet a valid threat when dealing with these types of char. The whining about SM pets has already started.

People that hate bonedancers the most I'd imagine are the F8/Stick/Spam-Style-Of-Choice type players. I've seen assassins and players that actually think about what they do take out bonedancers with ease.

But I guess the whining will never stop, eh?

 

[Cush]

Playing BD in pve solo is like playing in a group with uber n00bs.. so i didnt manage to get to level 21 even tho i did /level 20

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

Over powered I think not, only someone who got pwned or gimped their own chars spec would claim this.

Yes they are powerful, but normally any half sensible players (that wont include infils who are all stupid) can take them on in rvr, you just have t pan your attack a little more than normal.

Yes lifetap is their primary weapon, and what do Necros get....erm.....lifetap but catable. Difference is not just your pet will be casting, but you as well.

BDs are strong, no doubt, but nerfing them will just make them obsolete, so a lot fo ppl will be miffed having leveled one for it to die of gimpness.

Leave us alone eh, and fix chars rather than breakingthe good ones we got, give Thane lovage, and all the other chars who have suffered over the past year or so.

 

[Cush]

Originally posted by Whoodoo_RD
Over powered I think not, only someone who got pwned or gimped their own chars spec would claim this.

Yes they are powerful, but normally any half sensible players (that wont include infils who are all stupid) can take them on in rvr, you just have t pan your attack a little more than normal.

Yes lifetap is their primary weapon, and what do Necros get....erm.....lifetap but catable. Difference is not just your pet will be casting, but you as well.

BDs are strong, no doubt, but nerfing them will just make them obsolete, so a lot fo ppl will be miffed having leveled one for it to die of gimpness.

Leave us alone eh, and fix chars rather than breakingthe good ones we got, give Thane lovage, and all the other chars who have suffered over the past year or so.

To quote a Futurama episod "Are you insane in the membrane?"

 

[old.Normengast]

Originally posted by Whoodoo_RD
Yes lifetap is their primary weapon, and what do Necros get....erm.....lifetap but catable. Difference is not just your pet will be casting, but you as well.

You are casting it, for your pet, it is a shout. And if I'm not mistaken, delay on BD shout is 4 sec. Cast time on the Necro lifedrain is 3 sec? Might be wrong, haven't played the game in an aweful long time, but that's what I see when I look at the stats. So what you say there is not 100% true IMO

 

[Nonnier]

the BD is a very good class, it is virtually impossable for a tank to solo them however.

unfortuantly 90% of all people you meet solo are tanks, so the BD has been classed unkillable.

theres only 3 tanks that has a chance of killing BDs, the rest might as well not bother:-

1. reavers, don't ask me why, they can just do it

2. LW/spearo heroes/champs, combined with slam can do more dmg then my healer pets can heal

3. friars, they attack too fast

infils/NS's shouldn't have any trouble killing BDs, of all the times that i've been jumped, i've only survived 3 times out of about 33

disease and any CC is the bane of the BD class, if my pets get mezzed, i might as well sit dow and wait for the hib/alb to kill me, unless i'm in a grp.

in a grp, the BD takes the form of a great tank support caster and general "gank the infil/NS as it ganks the healer" class, the BDs front load dmg is quite large (DD+insta+body debuff means i can get on average 700 dmg in, depending on resists) the main problem with this is that the mana usage is quite large, and the insta has a insane ability to be resisted, and the insta is on a 4 sec timer, and u can't use the other "baseline" debuffs with it.

this means that a BD can dish out on average around 1400 hits in 2 rounds of nuking, comparied to say a enchanter who can throw out this combo in about 3 secs, the BD has to wait 4 secs in order to use this abilty.

The supp BD is far more effective in 1v1 because it has no need to support the combat using its dark spec DD,so the mana useage is only used for the insta + debuff, this means that the BDs mana usage will be about the same as other casters.

the insta is not only the weakest, but also the slowest of all the spec nukes, the insta does maximum 300ish dmg, depending on resists. The thing that makes it "a one button win button" is not the dmg, but when combined with 2 healer pets, it creates a caster, when buffed with 1345 hits and the abilty to regan about 600 hits every 4 secs, combined with the baseline AB buff and sheild, makes a caster that can win combats by simply not dying, while dishing out 300 dmg every 4 secs.

disease drasically decreases the BDs success rate, as it effectivly halfs the amount that the BD can be healed.

only way to kill a BD is too do more dmg then the BD can heal itself and doing it faster then 4 secs, this is why tanks can not solo BDs, as very few pack this punch needed

 

[hercules-df]

u ppl amuse me

 

[Balbor]

Originally posted by old.Normengast
You are casting it, for your pet, it is a shout. And if I'm not mistaken, delay on BD shout is 4 sec. Cast time on the Necro lifedrain is 3 sec? Might be wrong, haven't played the game in an aweful long time, but that's what I see when I look at the stats. So what you say there is not 100% true IMO

Yes its instent but the Pet won't shout it until he finishes his current attack. The necros quick cast is also a little tricky as once you press it you have to wait for it to appear in the pets buff window before you can cast a spell, this is also after the pet finishes his current action.

 

[Balbor]

no caster class should have 1 on there lines so powerful/attractive that the other lines are never speced. Simply improving the other lines does not help unless they are made more powerful than the over powered line. Every caster line need to have a valid resion for taking it to L50. How many spec lines are there are rarely taken into the high 40s because they are deemed worthless, or the class has one line that is so powerful there is no point?

 

[bigchief]

Originally posted by old.Normengast
You are casting it, for your pet, it is a shout. And if I'm not mistaken, delay on BD shout is 4 sec. Cast time on the Necro lifedrain is 3 sec? Might be wrong, haven't played the game in an aweful long time, but that's what I see when I look at the stats. So what you say there is not 100% true IMO

The difference here lies in the fact that the pet wont always cast and in the amount of damage dished out to whats returned as hp. If in a necro vs BD situation (you're comparing them, lets consider them in a fight then) the BD can always cast (insta), the necro can always cast (shade cast), the BD pets can always heal, the necro pet can cast 2 spells every 30secs.

With a pet on him or even with a spell on it every 4 seconds, even if its a 3sec cast for the necro pet it will not cast a damn thing due to interupts. Therefore its only casting when facilitate pain is up. For FP to work there can be no spells queued which means for 5seconds not a single spell can be cast before you start to cast the first nuke (not ideal).

Add to this the fact a BD insta (with power relics admitedly) hits someone with 26% resists for ~320 damage (without a debuff). Then take into account the necro pets blue and coded as a mob. Damage is therefore higher with the possibility of a high crit. Damage done to the pet can be in excess of 600 every 4secs. The return on a lifetap i believe for the BD is 80%? Add 2 healer pets and thats easily alot of hp back.

The necro abom has a swing time of 5secs. So every 5 secs 2 instas go off doing ~180 damage each. These will return about 200-300hp to the pet every 5 seconds. Whos going to win here?

Admittedly a necro can drop a BD, and ive done it myself. Needs a bit of luck and for you to get first attack in but in many situations the BD will win because of the interupt and the pet coding bugs.

K back on topic.. comparing them (and the other person who did it too) isnt really viable and theyre not even close. A BD does more front end damage and gets alot more hp back then a necro ever could

 

[soullessminion]

the bd lifetap hits 26% resists for 320?

WTF I want my money back, my lev 47 tap has never hit that high on another lev 50 even with 0 resists (unless you count a crit)

Trying to say a bd can tap a necro pet for 600+ every 4 sec is majorly streching the facts, my lev 47 tap hits greys for 390 if i remember corectly, so yes might hit a blue for 300, but chance of 1 100% crit is unlikely, 1 every 4 secs is just a dream...

 

[Dook_Pug]

Healing pets I can handle.

It's the freaking insta lifetap that pisses me off.

Remove that and the whining will stop IMO. Insta lifetaps on a class that already has 2 healing pets is a bigger mistake than insta CC.

 

[bigchief]

Originally posted by soullessminion
the bd lifetap hits 26% resists for 320?

WTF I want my money back, my lev 47 tap has never hit that high on another lev 50 even with 0 resists (unless you count a crit)

Trying to say a bd can tap a necro pet for 600+ every 4 sec is majorly streching the facts, my lev 47 tap hits greys for 390 if i remember corectly, so yes might hit a blue for 300, but chance of 1 100% crit is unlikely, 1 every 4 secs is just a dream...

Brite the skillless wonder (or BD as its better known) hits 320 every time (on my inf with 26% body). Only ever seen him cast one spell and ive met him about 4 times .. says something in itself.

Eatsinfils hits closer to 400 but he debuffs too.

O .. and my necro pet goes over in one DD and 2 instas. It has approx 1800hp if i recall correctly. Do the math.

 

[Laston]

witch reminds me is the debuff nerfed with the new spell lvl vs resist? also why the !"#&% would u attack the pet? u expect the bd to wait for you to finish? while u stand there wacking blue con pet he is dding u to death, solo it´s nearly impossible. tried as infil on pvp server (low eq mostly i hope ) and i can kill blues with PA if sitting

 

[Nonnier]

Originally posted by Laston
witch reminds me is the debuff nerfed with the new spell lvl vs resist? also why the !"#&% would u attack the pet? u expect the bd to wait for you to finish? while u stand there wacking blue con pet he is dding u to death, solo it´s nearly impossible. tried as infil on pvp server (low eq mostly i hope ) and i can kill blues with PA if sitting

mez or stun the BD then

 

[old.tuppe]

Originally posted by Balbor
no caster class should have 1 on there lines so powerful/attractive that the other lines are never speced. Simply improving the other lines does not help unless they are made more powerful than the over powered line. Every caster line need to have a valid resion for taking it to L50. How many spec lines are there are rarely taken into the high 40s because they are deemed worthless, or the class has one line that is so powerful there is no point?

hmm go and check bone other lines, i give you links so you can visit fast.
darkness line

bonearmy line


and just for safe supp line, where LT is
supp line whit LT


compare bonearmy dots example to cabalists, link here
matterline



so nerf supp line, and force bone spec other lines what those lines offer? total gimp.

 

[old.tuppe]

k

 

[old.tuppe]

dbl post dam.

 

[Tasans]

Facts whats that? Lets just nerf them to hell and back, who the fuck cares about balance as long as it is not killing me?

 

[Solarius]

Originally posted by old.tuppe
hmm go and check bone other lines, i give you links so you can visit fast.
darkness line

bonearmy line

and just for safe supp line, where LT is
supp line whit LT

compare bonearmy dots example to cabalists, link here
matterline

so nerf supp line, and force bone spec other lines what those lines offer? total gimp.

Same with enchanters sady, Mana is the only specline that is really any viability PvE and RvR. Anyone who thinks that Light spec is a viable specline for an enchanter needs their head checking in my opinion, a spec DD and attackspeed debuffs (so useful for a caster ) is far from a viable spec.

 

[Tasans]

Btw why are we even having this thread again? Its working as intended, devs are happy with how the supp line performs at high lvl, so cry more etc.