Need or Greed?

[Elewyth(TLSOA)]

My logic is not flawed. My logic states that the need/greed question is a false issue. The only thing that matters is getting as many of the "valued" items into the marketplace as possible. This, in the long run, is beneficial to everyone in the realm without bias.

People are free to put an item on their CM for a "silly price" - it simply won't sell. But that's their choice.

the problem is they DO sell cos people are mugs.. they buy whats available..
when tbh if they used theyre heads, went and camp stole from those camping it would be better all round.

 

[pbaz]

the problem is they DO sell cos people are mugs.. they buy whats available..

I repeat - an item is worth exactly what someone is prepared to pay for it. If someone is prepared to buy an item (regardless of whether you or anyone else thinks the price is "too high") then it is impossible for you to call them a "mug". They are getting what they want at a price they are prepared to pay. It's a fair transaction with no stupidity involved! People only buy what's available if they think the asking price is reasonable. Try the "Battler for 100p" experiment if you don't believe me. You'll quickly discover there aren't so many "mugs" in this game as you seem to think.

I also repeat that these "mugs" are helping move the market towards saturation and, therefore, driving the going price for that item down. In effect the people you express such spiteful pity towards (the "mugs" that you think don't know any better and are somehow forced, helplessly, to buy overpriced items) are a key factor in helping you achieve your goal of lower prices for valuable items.

You should be thanking them, instead of sneering at them.

 

[Marc]

the problem is they DO sell cos people are mugs.. .

No, its cos people can afford too, plain and simple.

 

[Marc]

Elewyth, im pretty sure Gordon Brown can sleep safe at night knowing you are around

 

[Elewyth(TLSOA)]

wtf? Gordon Brown? i think you need to go troll eleswhere fukwit.

 

[Red HATred]

still not locked?

hmmm

1) ok, ppl camp: get arties and drops...

2) other ppl can't get arties through normal means because it is camped..this leaving them no choise but to get cash..

3) additional drops make arties a target for farming, eventually the ppl farming those spots don't need the artifacts but are looking for that specific drop...

4) the farmed artifacts goes to merchants and the farmers set the prices rediculously high because they think it is special and no one else sells them.. beause they camp it and make it impossible to get..

5) other ppl have to go farm cash for hours and hours to be able and buy that artifact or drop, which they can't get, because it is camped...and have to resort to the most boring part of the game, chain killing mobs for gold. They lose interest in the game.. and leave.. or they press on in the boring part and miss out on a lot of nice PVE events, because it is camped.


Camping may be a valuable asset to your personal cash flow , but it is a reaaaal mood destroyer for other gamers in DAOC.


sollution :
programmer wise :

artifact events drop NOTHING else but the artifact and ONLY ONCE per character. This for groups containing at least ONE person without the artifact and the Item will go to the group picking it up. A pc generated /random between non-quest holders for final distribution of the item...
event over.. arti is with the person needing it... quest logg updated... End
you will never have it again
(this will NEVER happen)

PLayers sollution.

IMPOSSIBLE: 20 million personalities with 20 million different attitudes.
nothing to do with greed or need...
rather with "be bored" or "be boring"

Should ppl stop doing something Multiple times?

nope, practice makes perfect.. but the drop parts shouldn't be the main target. It should be the thrill of completion and helping if possible.


(sorry for ppl at HE today.. seems like HE is group only, if i'm there again, and killing it.. will try to put pet on passive and get you in group, BG didn't work)

 

[Red HATred]

I've never lead any sidi raid at all, but apart from that i've lead pretty much every big pve event in alb.

ok, thought you were that scout solo pulling most off the time when i attended that raid. Never bothered much asking who lead. I just thought it that way.


but still i wonder one thing.. i haven't seen the thread..the one where you are beeing accused for "theft".
can you actually walk into the ring.. use that ML skill, get the cloak and flee before you get ganked by those mobs??

most ppl stopped thinking when you dissapeared it seems..
but if you would have been bound to Volcanus it would port you there and
the rest could have been sorted the normal way from there on.
returning to spot etc..
I don't care about that incident i just wonder if it is actually possible to do it that way.
Would be a valuable piece of info.
Suicide pulling is not logical. Wether the other ppl stand there finishing the mobs or not... doesn't matter..

 

[Moona]

The threads i love

did you guys rememberd your playing a game?

and lol @ the DROLL :kissit:

 

[Red HATred]

The threads i love

did you guys rememberd your playing a game?

and lol @ the DROLL :kissit:

** english please **

 

[Ixoth]

still not locked?
sollution :
programmer wise :

artifact events drop NOTHING else but the artifact and ONLY ONCE per character. This for groups containing at least ONE person without the artifact and the Item will go to the group picking it up. A pc generated /random between non-quest holders for final distribution of the item...
event over.. arti is with the person needing it... quest logg updated... End
you will never have it again
(this will NEVER happen)

Like this idea, hopefully it gets implemented in future version of teh game.

 

[Red HATred]

Like this idea, hopefully it gets implemented in future version of teh game.

would be a lovely idea to see the special drops drop from basic mobs... like scrolls do..

xx% chance of dropping...

let drop farmers chainkill mobs and do the boring job whil the normal gamer enjoye their events.

one thing DAOC has no lack off are mobs to kill.. so why not make them more usefull then plain RoG drops and coins or faction.

 

[Moona]

lol

moona, loop jij nog rond in cammy?

nope

look at sig friend

 

[Moona]

mmmm cant see my sig :eek2:

i play EQ2 and Matrix Online Beta ^^

 

[Red HATred]

mmmm cant see my sig :eek2:

i play EQ2 and Matrix Online Beta ^^

lol, missunderstood : closed beta....
you must mean the beta is running and closed to other ppl
i though it meant beat and now closed
nvm

 

[Thorwyn]

artifact events drop NOTHING else but the artifact and ONLY ONCE per character. This for groups containing at least ONE person without the artifact and the Item will go to the group picking it up. A pc generated /random between non-quest holders for final distribution of the item...
event over.. arti is with the person needing it... quest logg updated... End

...so, we need a flag on each char that indicates whether he´s got the arti before. Now what does that mean? He can´t get it again when he had it in his inventory? Or when he picked it up? Or when he activated it? What if he has the arti and passes it on to a guildie asking him to mule it to an alt?... are they both flagged as "done" with that arti?
It´s almost impossible to keep track of things like this, a character in relation to an object or item because there is more than just one "state" the event can have.
Another effect of this is that people will roll and powerlevel tons of lvl 40 alts (can be done in just a couple of hours) to be able to pick up the arti again with this char, then put it on the CM, delete char, roll a new one, repeat. Effect: Necro players and powerelvelling junkies are having a huge advantage. It wouldn´t stop the camping at all, it would just artificially prolong the cycles.

 

[Red HATred]

...so, we need a flag on each char that indicates whether he´s got the arti before. Now what does that mean? He can´t get it again when he had it in his inventory? Or when he picked it up? Or when he activated it? What if he has the arti and passes it on to a guildie asking him to mule it to an alt?... are they both flagged as "done" with that arti?
It´s almost impossible to keep track of things like this, a character in relation to an object or item because there is more than just one "state" the event can have.
Another effect of this is that people will roll and powerlevel tons of lvl 40 alts (can be done in just a couple of hours) to be able to pick up the arti again with this char, then put it on the CM, delete char, roll a new one, repeat. Effect: Necro players and powerelvelling junkies are having a huge advantage. It wouldn´t stop the camping at all, it would just artificially prolong the cycles.

artifact would be untradable also not from activation point on, but from obtaining it onwards..off course...
So.. the mob dies, drop goes to a non-quest holder via /random
journal updated.. finished.
and we have a flag... it say blablabla quest completed...

as for pl farming..... sure... why not? then at least drops would be scattered ove a wider region and more ppl have spots to farm.. i don't think TOA is overcamped when it comes to normal mobs...

 

[Thorwyn]

artifact would be untradable also

ok.. but then, I come with the casual gamer argument...

Look at it this way: I`m a casual gamer. I`m online for maybe an hour every night during the week and maybe 2-3 on Sat/Sun. With your way of handling artifacts, I´d have to try get a group and get the artifact... on artis with 24 hour respawn timer and tons of other groups roaming for artis and just one hour pf playtime(b/c that´s what it means.. a concentration of artifact groups). Not very likely.
That´s exactly why I like the current way. I get online, I farm some money and I know that - after maybe 10 hours of killing stuff - I can go to housing and buy the arti. Done. Basically, I`m cutting the process of obtaining an artifact into small pieces and pay someone who´s "blessed" with enough time to farm all the junk. Good trade in my books. I don´t care how many plats I have in my invent, I have the arti and I`m happy.
See my point?

 

[Red HATred]

ok.. but then, I come with the casual gamer argument...

Look at it this way: I`m a casual gamer. I`m online for maybe an hour every night during the week and maybe 2-3 on Sat/Sun. With your way of handling artifacts, I´d have to try get a group and get the artifact... on artis with 24 hour respawn timer and tons of other groups roaming for artis and just one hour pf playtime(b/c that´s what it means.. a concentration of artifact groups). Not very likely.
That´s exactly why I like the current way. I get online, I farm some money and I know that - after maybe 10 hours of killing stuff - I can go to housing and buy the arti. Done. Basically, I`m cutting the process of obtaining an artifact into small pieces and pay someone who´s "blessed" with enough time to farm all the junk. Good trade in my books. I don´t care how many plats I have in my invent, I have the arti and I`m happy.
See my point?

i understand ur point, yep.

repop timers could also be altered drastically...since these insane spawntimers have been added to prevent or demotivate campers... which doesn't seem to work, only creates worse situation.
If there is no other reason to kill a mob.. then it will be roaming a lot more. And getting on line ..knowing there is a chance that you will get it or you will be able to complete it.. you would be able to get a couple of friends to help you out.
I think the whole mentaility in game would drastically chance in a positive way.

and as for your alternative... you have a point to.. you prefer doing some boring killing and farming to get cash and buy the artifact....
just one question... wouldn't you love to experience an event? instead of just sitting there, chatting a bit (which off course also has it's funny side); just beeing there and getting that artifact through personal effor and gaming? Entering a spot and leaving it with that thing in your hands
Because i know, you help mates to get credit... which is fairly fast and easy..
but after completing that quest you return to the farming step while other ppl could also use your help and experience you gained at that completion.. if you didn't get the arti first time, redo it.. couple of times.. won't be endless.

i do get your point, and in some way the selling is an alternative to some ppl.. true

i do understand that as it is now, buying something is easier after you completed an event one.. that is mainly because of ..as you said, those insane spawntimers (they have been added for a reason too)

ps: not offending in any way here jsut to say so

 

[Thorwyn]

I don´t think that the respawn timers are as high as they are to discourage campers. I think they´re there to make artis at least a little "special", so that not everyone is running around with a bunch of fancy crap. It´s the same as Sidi stuff 1.5 years ago. You´ve seen a Sidi piece on CS pad and it was like "wow! that´s cool.. I need to get one of those". There was a goal, a motivation. If everything drops too frequently, we´re becoming a Clone-Wars server.

just one question... wouldn't you love to experience an event? instead of just sitting there, chatting a bit (which off course also has it's funny side); just beeing there and getting that artifact through personal effor and gaming? Entering a spot and leaving it with that thing in your hands

It´s a matter of priorities and of time. I´m playing since beta and I`ve attended almost any event/raid this game/realm has to offer. But as soon as your playtime is getting limited to a few hours per week, you´re forced to adjust your game, filter your expectations and decide what a.you want and b.is possible. I´m still trying to help my guild- and realmmates whenever I can, but not as much as I used to do in the past, simply because the relation playtime/fun doesn´t work for me anymore. In a way, that´s the extreme opposite (and similar to) of the powergamer, who´s 100% success-oriented. I`m just trying to squeeze the maximum out of my limited online time.

 

[Ixoth]

About the item flags. There is already a flag in the game which tells, have the character activated certain artifact or not. If you have activated it, and its been destroyed due durability equals 0%, or you've destryoed it manually - you cannot reactivate it again (once you obtained the artifact with scrolls again).

So with analogic methodology its possible to flag char wise arti pickup flag, which is been compared if one is trying to pickup / trade same arti again.

...But I agree, the lenghty respawn time of the most commonly farmed mobs should be decreased drastically, so the demand would finally meet the offering, and we all would get rid off of these ridicilious prices of artifacts we have now.

 

[Red HATred]

aye , understand completely..

same here..
i used to be just as hard-core as others;.. to many hours a day.. then Real life struck...
gaming time reduced to 2 hours a day of serious gaming and a couple of hours of getting groups started (not that it matters that much to me).

still i try to uphold the same priciple as i always had.. don't need the cash , nor the dash, just want the fun and my guildies to be happy they can get just as much as the others.

i step over every merchandising rule the hard-core uses.. just by giving the most expensive stuff away..or trading it for something else...

just trying to be a good sport.

evey drop going for over a plat is just no good for a community..it is just exploiting game contents from ppl that think they are special.. just can't agree with those things.

to conclude

we can discuss about game mechanics and how it would be better... nothing will change eventually. The only hope we can have is that some players on line get some sence and coop a bit more with others.
in general:
lower all prices to a level where everybody can obtain all things.. not just some type of players....and if you don't need to be on a spot for personal gain or something you seek... don't be there... other ppl want to enjoye the thing they destroy with their farming.

look on cm; 15p 30p for items that have been created to be destroyed in 3 month /played......
isn't there any part of those ppl that still is functioning normally? The only thing that remains is a person that has .... a couple of mithryl of gold.. which he'll never spend on anything else... so what use it there?
Ebaying? trading to other servers? thats just another exploit

 

[Tay]

And to the person who thinks im stupid for lowering prices... no im not just giving them cheap arties to sell on at higher prices.. if they want to camp my house theyre free to do so.. just like i got a bot at Herbal's house for when hes done Dragon Raid's so i can buy some cheap Respec stones.. why? because obviously Herbal sees the benefit of selling Cheaper stuff i got 2 respec stone at his house for 5p... full respec stones! everywhere else was 7-9p.

I dont need a bot at herbals house, If I want resepc stones I'll go kill the dragon, its not as if its hard.

Am i winning? lets look at the evidence... 2-3months ago Belt of moon 1 was average of 1-200g... now it sells for 1-3g.. after i sat for days and farmed 30+ of these scrolls theyre now common place at this price.. the same goes for many many other scrolls..i dont take all the credit for this price decrease as i know 90% of my guild has the same policy.. need before greed.. and im sure theres lots more people out there have the same ideals..

And I'm sure the people that saw you camping the scroll mobs and/or the arti mobs thought, "screw it we'll come back when some arti camper aint trying to make a killing selling artis"..

But I'm sure you already have an answer for that.

 

[Tay]

Dont take me for a mug because i have more business sense than you.. ive sucessfully run 2 business's.. sold the first for a 400% return on my intitial investment.. i seem to have some idea about how the economy works.. and i also know what is and isnt a good price for something.. its common sense..

lmfao is all I can say to this...Gerald Ratner was a cocky twat too....I wonder if he has learned to keep his gob shut yet?

....................Well cept 1 group of people. the campers/greedy fuks......so if your bitching i wonder which category you fall into...?

You cant actually argue so you effectivly say "if you reply to this your a cheat and a crook.....so ner"

 

[Tay]

I don't get it - I thought you said you understood how the economy works?

....

The "I think Elewyth hasn't got a clue how market forces work" category?

/bow What you said...

bah I'll leave it to you.....better grasp at explaining it than I do....

 

[Tay]

3 words / 4 not much diff tbh

Actually its 25%....

/mumbles something about initial investment and 400%

ps: Soz Pbaz couldnt help posting...

 

[Elewyth(TLSOA)]

And I'm sure the people that saw you camping the scroll mobs and/or the arti mobs thought, "screw it we'll come back when some arti camper aint trying to make a killing selling artis"..

But I'm sure you already have an answer for that.

yes i do.. theres more than 1 mob that drops a particular scroll.. if im sat somewhere killing one mob theres a few more places people can go to get their scrolls... although i dont care if people wanna come share my spot.. i dont own it.. and i never tell people to piss off cos its camped.. the problem with arties is there is only 1 spot.. so if someone is already there your kinda screwed unless your Black Company ofc...

 

[Tay]

yes i do.. theres more than 1 mob that drops a particular scroll.. if im sat somewhere killing one mob theres a few more places people can go to get their scrolls... although i dont care if people wanna come share my spot.. i dont own it.. and i never tell people to piss off cos its camped.. the problem with arties is there is only 1 spot.. so if someone is already there your kinda screwed unless your Black Company ofc...

So if your farming BOS or BOM and somebody comes along to get the same arti, most will just pass you by, not realising your simply doing it to "fuck over" people that camp arti's for gold......oh hang on...that IS you.....

The amount is irrelevent, you are an Arti camper..

 

[pbaz]

repop timers could also be altered drastically...since these insane spawntimers have been added to prevent or demotivate campers...

Just my opinion, but I believe the insane repop timers on artis are there to ensure that it takes a long time for each player to get the item. And that, of course, means that Mythic keep paying subscribers for longer.

Look! Real market forces in DAoC again!

 

[pbaz]

in general:
lower all prices to a level where everybody can obtain all things.. not just some type of players....and if you don't need to be on a spot for personal gain or something you seek... don't be there... other ppl want to enjoye the thing they destroy with their farming.

I'm totally in favour of your first point. I want everyone to have access to the items they desire for as little as possible.

But I'm opposed to your second point. I'm opposed because the fastest way to achieve the first point is for every single mob that drops something worthwhile to be killed as soon as it pops. Your first and second points are actually mutually exclusive - without the farmers there "destroying" the enjoyment for others it would be impossible for item prices to decrease.

The farmers saturate the market and help cause price decline.

So you need to make up your mind: Do you want everyone to get what they want cheaply? Or do you want less farming?

 

[Marc]

Money makes the world go around. If people want to sell an arti at xxx price its upto them. The only way they will drop their price is if the artifact doesnt sell. If somebody buys it, they will list it again at that price. Lets take an example.

GoV A for 10p
GoV B for 35p

Only 2 for sale. GoV sells quickly as low price, leaving GoV B as the only one on sale. Eventually someone loaded will see it and buy it. The person who sold GoV B knows that it will sell for 35p and hence, if he sells another one, he is going to list it at that price. The only way to lower prices is for the whole realm to boycott overpriced artis, but why should we? It is so easy to farm money in this game, that why shouldnt I pay 30p for a GoV? I want it, I can afford it. Only takes a couple of evenings a week to farm 30p.