nazty half life 2 problem for nvidia cards

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smurkin

Guest
Found this on Anandtec

Well, this really bites the big one. xbit is reporting that Valve developers have identified a bug in current DX9 hardware when using FSAA algorithms. It appears that there is a workaround for ATI hardware, but is almost impossible to fix for NVIDIA based graphics cards.
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Link Here

well...just dont use aa if you cant :/ :rolleyes:
 
S

smurkin

Guest
yup...i saw that...but it didnt click :)

isnt there a new nv chip around the corner (isnt there always :rolleyes: ) that will have this fixed ?

tbh...cost of hardware....when these games come out, I dont think I'll be able to afford aa ;)
 
J

Jonty

Guest
This strikes me as really odd, considering how long DX9 hardware has been around and the growing number of appications that utilise it. Still, here's hoping all's well that ends well. As for your question, smurkin, yes, nVidia's new cards, based around the NV40 core, are drawing nearer. I don't believe any official announcements have been made, but I believe new/updated cards are expected in the summer, with more advanced cards coming later this year/early next year. But as I say, that's just rumour :)

As for whether these cards will fix what's wrong, I don't know. I don't believe nVidia has so far commented on the problem, but I doubt if they'll go to great extents to modify anything (if it turns out it is down to them to do anything) as this problem has yet to have occured in any other forthcoming DirectX 9 title, at least not that I know of.

Kind Regards
 
S

smurkin

Guest
so we might be in the interesting scenario where halflife2 (which everyone will want) will sell ati cards...thats got some funk...all of a sudden ati have an anticompetitive monopoly... and that cant be good for the video card market :/
 
E

Embattle

Guest
I don't quite think it would be enough to sell more ATI cards, certainly not a lot either way.
 
S

Scooba Da Bass

Guest
Originally posted by Jonty
As for whether these cards will fix what's wrong, I don't know. I don't believe nVidia has so far commented on the problem, but I doubt if they'll go to great extents to modify anything (if it turns out it is down to them to do anything) as this problem has yet to have occured in any other forthcoming DirectX 9 title, at least not that I know of.
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The issue is to do with the way that HL2 handles textures, there's no other game (yet) that does it in the same way, hence the lack of problems so far.
 
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Embattle

Guest
It does seem that Nvidia is suffering from quality issues in certain areas atm.
 
J

Jonty

Guest
This doesn't really add anything new, but here's things as they stand . . .

HalfLife2.net

Drivers aren't likely to fix the problem, with the exception of the ATI 9500-9800. There's hope there for being able to use FSAA properly. You are out of luck on NVidia unless either NVidia or us come up with some clever way of solving this problem.
...
The problem is specifically with multisample antialiasing on any card that uses multisample antialiasing. If you use supersampling you should be fine. Actually, this problem has existed for any game that uses light maps that are packed into a subrect (like Quake 3, etc). You will be able to turn FSAA if you like (in the control panel for your video card), but it's likely to have artifacts on triangle boundaries. We don't recommend turning multisample antialiasing on for cards that don't have centroid sampling. . .your mileage may vary.
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Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. Is it me, or is The Inquirer somewhat partisan these days, or has it always been like that? :(
 
T

Tom

Guest
I have an athlon 900, with 512mb ram, and a Nvidea Geforce 4 MX 420, with 64mb ram.

Will this be ok-ish to run hl2 on, or should I consider upgrading?
 
J

Jonty

Guest
Hi Tom.

The biggest performance gains would come from either upgrading your CPU or your graphics card. Of the two, I'd probably go for the CPU first, providing your motherboard can handle it. If you post your motherboard model and any budget then I'd be happy to list some possible upgrades.

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. You system should play Half-Life 2 as it is, there just won't be much 'eye candy'.
 
F

FatBusinessman

Guest
Originally posted by Tom.
Will this be ok-ish to run hl2 on, or should I consider upgrading?
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Strictly speaking it's just above the minimum requirements (given, I believe, as 700 MHz PC with comparable GFX card).

So it'll probably just about run HL2 on lowest detail settings, although with framerates sinking when anything exciting happens and, as Embattle points out, it will look nothing like the pretty movies Valve have been showing us.

I'm afraid you're looking at a rather hefty upgrade/replacement of everything except the RAM (possibly even that if you're not using DDR) if you want to see it in anything like its full glory...
 
X

xane

Guest
I've yet to run a game with antialiasing, using Battlefield 1942 for example, on my GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB, it is utterly crap with it switched on.
 
C

Cdr

Guest
You do realise that BF has its own FSAA?

Its only noticable once you get to the higher res's (thats why the text get screwed up at anything over 1024x768).
 
L

lovedaddy

Guest
Originally posted by Jonty
Hi Tom.

The biggest performance gains would come from either upgrading your CPU or your graphics card. Of the two, I'd probably go for the CPU first, providing your motherboard can handle it. If you post your motherboard model and any budget then I'd be happy to list some possible upgrades.

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. You system should play Half-Life 2 as it is, there just won't be much 'eye candy'.
Click to expand...

Personally, I dont think you will be able to run HL2 acceptable on your PC, regardless of the eye candy level. The havok physics engine is going to be a MASSIVE cpu bottleneck, and from the videos we have seen, some of the set pieces are going to be all down to the physics, you'll have to run the physics with a set level of precision to get the results the designers intended. I just dont think a 900 machine will deliver, regardless of the graphic detail. (tho i'd be over the moon if I was wrong =)

(just to backup why, I've seen a ragdoll demo on an xbox (733 cpu) use almost all of the CPU power when moving 5 dolls about the place (with constraints, eg elbow, knee, etc), using MathEngine.)
 
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Tom

Guest
OK I found the motherboard manual:

Asus A7V133 Jumperfree pc133/vc133 200/266mhz FSB AGP Pro/4x Socket A Motherboard

Money is tight at the moment, so I can't really afford a massive upgrade of everything. Spending more than £100 is out of the question, I've gotta pay a massive tax bill in 4 months.
 
J

Jonty

Guest
Hi Tom.

Overclockers UK stock an AMD Athlon XP 2200+ (266Mhz) for £54.64 inc. VAT exc. delivery (eBuyer for £53.11 inc. VAT exc. delivery).

That would provide a good performance boost without breaking the bank, and wouldn't push your budget. You could then upgrade other parts later on as and when your finances allow.

I've chosen the CPU over a graphics card for, although you can get good cards which hover around the £100 mark, without a stronger CPU they'll be fairly limited in what they can do, and although you perhaps won't have lots of eye candy, at least games should reach playable rates with an updated CPU.

Kind Regards
 
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Tom

Guest
Wow I didn't realise it would support something that fast. I thought that it would 'run out' at 1.5GHz or something.

Thanks Jonty, you're a star m8

/edit

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/

That is usually where I buy my CPU from, are all the AMD single processors Socket A? Would it just be a case of plugging it in, and away it goes?

/edit

Also, what about these voltage configs? How do I know what to do?
 
L

leggy

Guest
I'm pretty certain the pc133 ram will cause a serious bottlneck as well though.

On my old system the frame rate difference on rtcw between the pc133 and 2100 ram was 50 or so.
 
W

Will

Guest
Originally posted by Tom.
are all the AMD single processors Socket A? Would it just be a case of plugging it in, and away it goes?

/edit

Also, what about these voltage configs? How do I know what to do?
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All Athlons, including XPs, are Socket A. And the voltage configs work automagically.
 
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Tom

Guest
OK thanks for the help guys, I just ordered the processor Jonty recommended fro mthat site.

Works out cheaper than getting in my car and driving to the shop!

Anyone wanna buy an Athlon 900?
 
J

Jonty

Guest
Hi Tom.

If you encounter any problems, please let me know, as I'd hate to think I'd ill-advised you.

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. Don't sell that Athlon 900 just yet ;)
 
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Tom

Guest
Oh well I just plugged this new cpu in, it didn't work, checked the Asus website for a bit, and found that the MB only supports CPUs up to 2100?

Athlon 700 ALL ALL
Athlon 750 ALL ALL
Athlon 800 ALL ALL
Athlon 850 ALL ALL
Athlon 900 ALL ALL
Athlon 950 ALL ALL
Athlon 1000 (200 MHz FSB) ALL ALL
Athlon 1000 (266 MHz FSB) ALL ALL
Athlon 1100 (200 MHz FSB) ALL ALL
Athlon 1133 (266 MHz FSB) ALL ALL
Athlon 1200 (200 MHz FSB) ALL ALL
Athlon 1200 (266 MHz FSB) ALL ALL
Athlon 1300 (200 MHz FSB) ALL ALL
Athlon 1333 (266 MHz FSB) ALL ALL
Athlon 1400 (200 MHz FSB) ALL 1005
Athlon 1400 (266 MHz FSB) ALL 1005
Athlon XP 1500+(Model 6)(Palomino) 1.05. 1007
Athlon XP 1600+(Model 6)(Palomino) 1.05. 1007
Athlon XP 1700+(Model 6)(Palomino) 1.05. 1007
Athlon XP 1800+(Model 6)(Palomino) 1.05. 1007
Athlon XP 1900+(Model 6)(Palomino) 1.05. 1007
Athlon XP 2000+(Model 6)(Palomino) 1.05. 1007
Athlon XP 2100+(Model 6)(Palomino) 1.05. 1007
Duron 600 (Model 3) ALL ALL
Duron 650 (Model 3) ALL ALL
Duron 700 (Model 3) ALL ALL
Duron 750 (Model 3) ALL ALL
Duron 800 (Model 3) ALL ALL
Duron 850 (Model 3) ALL ALL
Duron 900 (Model 3) ALL ALL
Duron 900 (Model 7)(Morgan) 1.05. 1007
Duron 950 (Model 3) ALL ALL
Duron 950 (Model 7)(Morgan) 1.05. 1007
Duron 1000 (Model 7)(Morgan) 1.05. 1007
Duron 1100 (Model 7)(Morgan) 1.05. 1007
Duron 1200 (Model 7)(Morgan) 1.05. 1007
Duron 1300 (Model 7)(Morgan) 1.05. 1007
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I don't suppose overclockers would accept it back now would they :(

What is the technical difference between the 2100 and the 2200? The CPU they sent me is an 'AMD Athlon 'Thoroughbred' XP 2200+ Socket A OEM (CP-025-AM)'
 
D

Deadmanwalking

Guest
Well you can buy "Thoroughbred" 2000+ Athlon XPS im assuming it's because the chips that board mentions are all Palomino and the 2200 is Thoroughbred :(
 
C

Cdr

Guest
Have you checked BIOS updates? Sometimes flashing the BIOS can allow an older board to be compatible with the newer chips.

WARNING

Do not flash the BIOS unless you really have to or you feel you can do it. Get it wrong and it can mess up your whole motherboard.
 
D

Deadmanwalking

Guest
This cautionary message was bought to you by CDR is an idiot.Inc (All right reserved yada yada etc)
 
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