nanananananana nanny state.

Ezteq

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ha yes I saw this on the news this morning, what an idiotic state of affairs tbh; it seem like people cannot do anything without government involvement these days.
 

Zenith.UK

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You didn't see the progression of this story then.
It started with one of the Sunday newspapers running the story about the two police officers.
Then the BBC reported on it, stating Ofsted's position.
Later on, it was editted to say that Ofsted was seeking clarification on the definition of "reward".
Finally a govt minister has waded in going "WTF?"

The paranoid part of me just sees this as another attempt by the civil service to get everyone who has ANY contact with children "registered" and on the CRB database (and therefore all the other govt DB's).
The rational part of me sees this as another "land grab" by the State on a part of our lives, and Society as a whole responding with a resounding "NO!"

I have a big problem with any regulation or law that's "for the children". Let's bolster the rights of children at the expense of the parent's right to discipline them. Oh, and hold the parents to account if/when the kid goes off the rails, even though the parents by law can't physically discipline or chastise their children. Yeah, nice bit of joined up thinking there Labour! :(
 

leviathane

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I can see where there coming from but theres not rly a need for it.
 

Ch3tan

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The funny thing is police officers already have a CRB check when joining the force do they not?
 

Ctuchik

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lol, how fucking pathetic... so ppl cant baybysit kids if its more then 2 hours a day?
 

old.Tohtori

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Bonkers.

Totally, utterly bonkers.

I learn new things from that lil island every day, and every day i'm equally surprised :D
 

kiliarien

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The funny thing is police officers already have a CRB check when joining the force do they not?

Yes they do, as do teachers etc. The stupid thing is that when you have to get a CRB check, which btw you have to pay for, you have to get one for each county or unitary authority you work in.

I work in Kent, and anyone who has come from a Medway school and has always worked in Medway has to get a new Kent CRB check even though Medway is in Kent! Fooking stupid. Surely one CRB check covering the entire country is a simple thing for the govt to lob on their central database.

I agree Zen - taking away parental power and giving children unecessary rights is stupid, especially as you say then society then has a go at parents if their kids do go off the rails.

This story is so stupid - and why the 2 hour rule? A bit of a random amount of time. And surely doesn't this mean that grandparents who look after their grandkids for substantial amounts of time should also have to be CRB checked. Doesn't them enjoying time with their grandkids class as a reward? These two officers don't seem to have a formal (ie. written down) agreement and so the benefits of this reward seem hard to measure.
 

Thadius

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The government think its going to end up like rita, Sue and bob too! :(
 

fettoken

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Too bad you are all law abiding citizens that play by the rules. Instead of complaining find a way around it! My motto: Screw the rules!
 

Calaen

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What's even worse is that they were grassed up by someone. It's an absolute joke.

It's not like the government help themselves, a friend of my wife has just quit her full time job to go to university full time because financially she is better off because she is a single parent? Where the hell is the sense in that, myself and my wife could not afford for either of us to be out of a job and because of that we pay 60 pounds a month in child care fees and get an absolute joke of £18 pound a week child benefit.

I keep hearing about benefits for being married but I see non, other than me being raped for cash every month while watching absolute cretins with no jobs putting there own kids into the same creche as my own daughter paid for by the government while they sit around on there arses all day.

I wish all of the political parties would fuck off.
 

tris-

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The funny thing is police officers already have a CRB check when joining the force do they not?

probably yeh. any job where you might work with vulnerable people or kids requires a CRB check first.

Where the hell is the sense in that, myself and my wife could not afford for either of us to be out of a job and because of that we pay 60 pounds a month in child care fees and get an absolute joke of £18 pound a week child benefit.

I keep hearing about benefits for being married but I see non, other than me being raped for cash every month while watching absolute cretins with no jobs putting there own kids into the same creche as my own daughter paid for by the government while they sit around on there arses all day.

I wish all of the political parties would fuck off.


doesnt that mean your child care is paid for then in that case?
as to the second thing, not everyone wants to be unemployed. in particular, i doubt people enjoy struggling on little money with kids to bring up. maybe some do, but those types probably have drug dealers for husbands and thieves for kids.
 

Huntingtons

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Oh, and hold the parents to account if/when the kid goes off the rails, even though the parents by law can't physically discipline or chastise their children. Yeah, nice bit of joined up thinking there Labour! :(
you know that that specific law is there to prevent abuse, not to prevent disciplining your children with a twat (altough i dont believe in hitting children). It would either be make it legal and let children be abused, or make it illigal to make sure that in the case of abuse, they can get convicted. they chose the way that ensures children most safety.
 

Calaen

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probably yeh. any job where you might work with vulnerable people or kids requires a CRB check first.




doesnt that mean your child care is paid for then in that case?
as to the second thing, not everyone wants to be unemployed. in particular, i doubt people enjoy struggling on little money with kids to bring up. maybe some do, but those types probably have drug dealers for husbands and thieves for kids.

Sorry Tris I missed a 0 off :p 600 pounds a month child care.
 

Lamp

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This Labour government is fucking nuts. Its times like this when you wish you were French
 

tris-

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Sorry Tris I missed a 0 off :p 600 pounds a month child care.

the problem is with benefits is understanding that they must have a cut off somewhere. if there wasnt a line there would be even more chaos.
 

Calaen

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Don't get me wrong, I didn't have Eden because I thought someone else was going to pay for it.

But there is nothing out there to actually help two parents who are married, who want to work to have a better life for themselves. I actually had a conversation with a judge who is a friend of a firend, and he questioned why my wife even went back to work. The system is broke. I know there are people out there trying to find work, but I also see the feckers that have no intention of doing it either and they have a house, car, sky and go away on holidays. It's just not right.

Also, myself and my wife didn't have Eden by accident, we started trying when we nkew we were financially stable enough to supporta child, but you cannot account for the costs associated with having a child before you actually have one. We are over 6 grand down a year just on child care fees, throw everything else on top of that and it's alot of cash, cash that we can only get by going to work, but are in essence no better off by my wife working.
 

tris-

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but the problem is do you need help if you can afford it?

also, would your wife honestly say "fuck work" and sit around all day on benefits? probably not if she is intelligent. sitting around all day is very depressing if you have a few lights switched on upstairs.
 

old.Tohtori

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But there is nothing out there to actually help two parents who are married, who want to work to have a better life for themselves. I actually had a conversation with a judge who is a friend of a firend, and he questioned why my wife even went back to work. The system is broke. I know there are people out there trying to find work, but I also see the feckers that have no intention of doing it either and they have a house, car, sky and go away on holidays. It's just not right.

Also, myself and my wife didn't have Eden by accident, we started trying when we nkew we were financially stable enough to supporta child, but you cannot account for the costs associated with having a child before you actually have one. We are over 6 grand down a year just on child care fees, throw everything else on top of that and it's alot of cash, cash that we can only get by going to work, but are in essence no better off by my wife working.

Nothing? Day care seems to work for a lot of people.

If you get a kid, you had to knew that before day care, one of you would have to stay home.

Also you CAN account for costs if you find out things, ask other parents etc. If you think you're financially stable, it's not the truth.

What you're saying actually DOES sound like "we're making a baby, we need help taking care of it", which is bull in any scenario. Also gives indication that you weren't as ready for a kid as you thought.

Only people who should get a kid, are those who can A; take care of the kid. B; spend enough time on the kid and C: afford the kid.

BY THEMSELVES.
 

Vasconcelos

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Well it is a trait of the mediterranean countries to ask the grandparents for help.

For instance, my nephew is taken nad picked up from school by my parents, who also babysit him till my sister comes back from home and pick him up.

My parents used to do the same when I was a kid, I always spent half the evening at my grandma place.

The real problem is the cost of raising a child :(
 

Calaen

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Nothing? Day care seems to work for a lot of people.

If you get a kid, you had to knew that before day care, one of you would have to stay home.

Also you CAN account for costs if you find out things, ask other parents etc. If you think you're financially stable, it's not the truth.

What you're saying actually DOES sound like "we're making a baby, we need help taking care of it", which is bull in any scenario. Also gives indication that you weren't as ready for a kid as you thought.

Only people who should get a kid, are those who can A; take care of the kid. B; spend enough time on the kid and C: afford the kid.

BY THEMSELVES.

No mate, niether us us wanted to sit at home, because Eden would be the one that suffered, kids need social interaction from children in there own age range.

Paying for the childcare is not the real issue at all because we knew there would be a cost associated with it.

I don't have any family that can care for her during the day unlike others that I consider very lucky. We were ready for the baby as I have already said, but no one was ready for the global recession, the increase in mortgage costs jumping up a few hundred pound more, the pay decreases which have been forced upon us.

Why should someone who does not work and does not want to work get free child care when they could be looking after the child themsleves? That is what I am getting at, this should not be allowed.

You can't possibly prepare for something to take over your life, you can't prepare for the fact every waking minute you have to care for something or it will die. But hey lets not go back to the same old argument eh?
 

old.Tohtori

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No mate, niether us us wanted to sit at home, because Eden would be the one that suffered, kids need social interaction from children in there own age range.

Paying for the childcare is not the real issue at all because we knew there would be a cost associated with it.

I don't have any family that can care for her during the day unlike others that I consider very lucky. We were ready for the baby as I have already said, but no one was ready for the global recession, the increase in mortgage costs jumping up a few hundred pound more, the pay decreases which have been forced upon us.

Why should someone who does not work and does not want to work get free child care when they could be looking after the child themsleves? That is what I am getting at, this should not be allowed.

You can't possibly prepare for something to take over your life, you can't prepare for the fact every waking minute you have to care for something or it will die. But hey lets not go back to the same old argument eh?

Much better explanation of what happened, though i disagree with parts(i do feel that 1-3 age should have either parent at home, but that's personal opinion ofcourse). Mortage costs etc jumping just as you get a larva out of the missus, extremely bad timing and nothing you could've done. Government should in these cases have a crisis aid, where they look through a VERY strict comb if you had a "shit in fan" situation, or just trying to get extra.

I agree with the part about non-workers(who don't seem to even aspire to do so) shouldn't even have baby rights. Force adoption/abortion comes to mind.(yeah i said it!)

Though have to remember that it would take more resources to really have the manpower to take more case-by-case study on who should get benefits.
 

Calaen

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Much better explanation of what happened, though i disagree with parts(i do feel that 1-3 age should have either parent at home, but that's personal opinion ofcourse). Mortage costs etc jumping just as you get a larva out of the missus, extremely bad timing and nothing you could've done. Government should in these cases have a crisis aid, where they look through a VERY strict comb if you had a "shit in fan" situation, or just trying to get extra.

I agree with the part about non-workers(who don't seem to even aspire to do so) shouldn't even have baby rights. Force adoption/abortion comes to mind.(yeah i said it!)

Though have to remember that it would take more resources to really have the manpower to take more case-by-case study on who should get benefits.

Totally agree with you, it boils my piss to see people with 5 kids not working, driving around. I am helping to pay for them and their kids.
 

Calaen

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I have no faith in there ability to do anything about it :p

I have friends that rip off the system, because they can and nothing ever gets done about it and they rake in the cash. It's rather embarrasing, but they say I am the stupid one for working.
 

Thadius

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I have no faith in there ability to do anything about it :p

I have friends that rip off the system, because they can and nothing ever gets done about it and they rake in the cash. It's rather embarrasing, but they say I am the stupid one for working.

Im out of work atm and tis daft. I could work for 16 hours and get the same for doing fuck all.

The difference is, i WANT to work those 16 goddamn hours to get me out of the house and give my brain something to do. Shame everyone else is fighting for the same jobbies as me!
 

Calaen

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Im out of work atm and tis daft. I could work for 16 hours and get the same for doing fuck all.

The difference is, i WANT to work those 16 goddamn hours to get me out of the house and give my brain something to do. Shame everyone else is fighting for the same jobbies as me!

I've been there myself scraping together 16 hours part time at dixons during the summer to guarantee myself as many hours as I wanted through the winter. And the amount of fecking around with paper work and time sheets makes you feel like a peasant. Your sat there with people not even bothering their arses to look for work getting the same amount as you.

We need national service back tbh, the majority of these people just need some guidance and discipline.
 

Thadius

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National Service is a nono, we havent even got the equipment to supply the boys and girls already out fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan
 

Zenith.UK

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That's called tinkering around the edges and 10 hours of free childcare isn't much use when you're working 40 hours a week.

Let's be realistic here, anyone with any observational skills can see that Labour is heading for a major trouncing in the General Election in the next few months. If the recent by-elections are anything to go by, we can expect to see anything from a 10-17% swing away from Labour.
By-elections results: By-election results from 2005 to the present | UK Political Info

This handy swingometer on the Telegraph site shows what happens when the swing changes. Anything from 4%-10% swing to the Conservatives gives a hung parliament. Anything over 10% gives a Conservative majority. I'd be happy with either outcome... ANYTHING that gets Labour out and the ID Card scheme killed dead.
UK General Election political map - Telegraph
 

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