mythic view on determination/hybrids etc

[Jiggs]

Originally posted by Pin
Again, that's looking at Excalibur, and only talking about fg v fg.

no not really, play on 3 servers (one US) and thats pretty much the pattern i've seen... but yes i'm talking about fg v fg. Quite where you draw your conclusions from i have no idea.

debuff teams u'll meet once in a blue moon, some mids did one recently on excal: just run along behind a zerg and its the fastest realm points u can get in the game (no danger and u do all the damage so u get all the rlm points)

ofc then they get sperated a bit and one ae mezz=game over=boring=get the zerk/savage out..

anyway debuffs wont be so effective soon (and its quite right that a spirit cabalist shouldnt out dmg a body cabalist) so we'll prolly see some big changes there.

who knows, 1.65 next stage should be this week, maybe we'll see which way it heads then..

 

[osrim]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica
Warden RA breaks mez and is bugged. Group unfriendly imo.

rofl

 

[old.Thanatlos]

Well, it is buggy to say the least..
- 30 sec RA only lasts 24 seconds because first tick doesn't actually do anything.
- Snare and damage can get resisted
- Takes about 3 seconds to aim at your own damn feet. (try groundtargeting while running btw ) Takes a second to show groundtarget, a second to release. and a second to get location back. Something like that, just try groundtargeting something quickly, can't be done (yet, maybe better next patch)
- Takes 6 seconds to start actually doing something. (due to broken first tick)

But other than that it's a nice RA. Just not worthy of my RA points anymore. Way too frustrating to use. And if you use it, you have to aim like 10 seconds into the future and i'm not as good at that as I used to be.

kinda like baod being really good when aimed at the future (think some albs named it as counter to vp )

 

[JawZ]

Hmm now im curious Thanatlos....

Do you share the same lastname as your beloved wife?

 

[vintervargen]

Originally posted by JawZ
Mid Insta/AE stun would actually be usefull again if they nerfed determination.

Originally posted by JawZ
It wouldn't be as good as it once was but it would be better than it is now, got my point?

no. you saying ae stun in all its forms is useless?

but if you feel that way, remove it completely, since no other realms have it.

or maybe give druids that spec NA ae stun.

 

[JawZ]

Originally posted by vintervargen
no. you saying ae stun in all its forms is useless?

Usefull against det tanks other than stopping them for 1 second was what I meant.

 

[Deletium]

Originally posted by JawZ
Yes that's it's current use, maybe you didn't actually read what I wrote though...

If they nerfed determination to somewhere around 5% / level I don't think anyone would raise it higher than lvl 3-4 thus giving tanks a total of 15-20% reduction.

This would give ae stun some use vs tanks.

It wouldn't be as good as it once was but it would be better than it is now, got my point?

AE stun still stops anything than heavy tanks, and as i recall mids are the only realm that got it.

As add it has the highest value of all stuns, and then its AE...

Dont think any mid should whine about it not being good enough..

 

[hotrat]

TWF, BaoD, and GP are the 3 reasons hibs are the only realm that can make a successful caster group.
Going on the basis that a caster group needs at least 2 pbae characters to survive, and need to be able to survive a jump.

If another realm tries a pbae circle TWF is the perfect interupt RA, and BaoD the perfect counter attack.

 

[JawZ]

Originally posted by Deletium
Dont think any mid should whine about it not being good enough..

Im not whining, just bringing up the subject that AE stun would be affecting tanks a little more if they nerfed determination.

 

[Asha]

Originally posted by Jiggs
anyway the point was that (imo) the friar TL hit the nail bang on the head:

classes without det should get some extra 'group' boosts in their hybrid lines: stormcalling/valour etc etc otherwise there is no point in grouping them..

its just really odd the mythic seem to think det tank groups aren't anything more than a server specific 'fad'...

So more healing for friars…? And bards? And wardens? And shamies?
I am not certain what classes he thinks are hybrid. More smite dmg for clerics? Aren’t we right back where we started then?

By raising friars healing ability you could well push clerics right out of groups. Why get a cleric when you can get bbot buffs and a healer who can actually defend himself? Maybe that’s a bit extreme, as clerics still have superior rezzes, instas, and ofc bof… but I don’t think it’s a good idea all the same – it does not fix the problem.

Dunno…

I think that it would be far better to fix the determination (lower the % reduction some) and the resists issues… they are just too high. By increasing the “hybrid” classes abilities you aren’t really fixing the caster problems (resists, interruptions), and you may well be adding more problems for them. That sounds like you’re going in a circle. You increase pure tank dmg both via resists (SC’ing) and by determination which indirectly nerfs everyone else, so you increase hybrid abilities. That still leaves casters out in the cold. If you boost casters, then tanks will be whining again. I think Mythic’s biggest problem is that they never do things in moderation. Yes, casters were over powered, but the det and resists are just too big a nerf. It’s like Mythic didn’t even consider what the game would be like at high realm ranks. It’s like they stopped testing at rr4 and said – ok it’s balanced.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by JawZ
No, the AE falloff radius didn't exist before.
So it's not as usefull as it was.

I am comparing the situation NOW (with AoE-falloff and hybrids no determination) and then when Determination gets nerfed/fixed.

Stunning my friar for 6 secs on a cast isn't too bad considering we all know how many warriors and thanes Midgard nowadays has in active RvR on average :/ (eg. not all groups even have shield-slam)

 

[old.Thanatlos]

Originally posted by JawZ
Hmm now im curious Thanatlos....

Do you share the same lastname as your beloved wife?

I did once lol, now it's Teddybear coz I think firbies should be more like bears!
ok, don't ask, ran out of names..

 

[Jiggs]

Originally posted by Asha
So more healing for friars…? And bards? And wardens? And shamies?
I am not certain what classes he thinks are hybrid. More smite dmg for clerics? Aren’t we right back where we started then?

no, all hybrids should have some kind of group utility.

alot do already: shamens/bards/paladins/wardens etc

but classes like champs, thanes, friars and reavers are very much out in the cold with no group enhancing abilities to make up for the lack of determination.

i asked him for something like a group celerity... nothing massive just something which means when 7ppl look at a friar and a merc lfg they'll consider taking the friar..

casters i have no idea what they should do for them..

 

[Divinia]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica
Warden RA breaks mez and is bugged. Group unfriendly imo.

use it on tanks who hit support, to interrupt unmezzed healers/mages, cant kill a grp with it anyway so no need to use it after mezz landed.

 

[Asha]

Originally posted by Jiggs
but classes like champs, thanes, friars and reavers are very much out in the cold with no group enhancing abilities to make up for the lack of determination.

i asked him for something like a group celerity... nothing massive just something which means when 7ppl look at a friar and a merc lfg they'll consider taking the friar..

casters i have no idea what they should do for them..

champs - they bug me personally but ok they don't have anything essential to a group. I think they would be ok if det issues were sorted out.

thanes - no idea how to help this endangered species. Even with more dmg, they won't be a group's first choice.

reavers - are fine except the normal det issues imo

friars - I think they would be fine if det issues were sorted out. Celerity might be ok, but more rejuv would make them overpowered - esp for pve.

If you start giving more abilities that groups have to have, it's just going to be that must worse for Albion who already have to have five classes.

 

[Jiggs]

but they aren't going to remove det..

the whole point is that these classes get some _compensation_

i dont think thats amazingly outrageous

 

[Asha]

I didn't say remove it, I said lessen it

But mythic are terrible at admitting they make mistakes (see hidden only took like a year to admit to being terrible.)

Oh well, I guess we'll have to wait for this RvR review thingie.

 

[old.Outlaw]

Originally posted by Jiggs
no, the only viable casters in fg RvR are: sorcerer/enchanter/eldritch and only one of these will ever be specced to debuff.

debuff groups are all about zerging or jumping into other ppl's fights, just watch zoyster/stt group if u want to see it:

find out where the fight is, run in debuff n00k everything and steal all the realm points, they lose 99% of fg encounters..

charming Jiggs, I am shocked that you view us like this. Not to mention you're talking pure BS.GG.

 

[old.XanateA]

Outlaw: ur group, not to mention you.. is useless
might be good rps when hiding in a 3fg+ zerg

 

[old.Outlaw]

Originally posted by old.XanateA
Outlaw: ur group, not to mention you.. is useless
might be good rps when hiding in a 3fg+ zerg

er mebe against pixel perfect NP tank play and savage groups (not always) but lets not forget me and my groups play for fun. FYI: I have never played for RPs, just for gankage and fun... hence why I persist on playing with my rr11 char...

 

[old.Outlaw]

Originally posted by old.XanateA
Outlaw: ur group, not to mention you.. is useless
might be good rps when hiding in a 3fg+ zerg

lol w0t a cheap swipe, you're going down!

 

[old.Zoyster]

Originally posted by old.XanateA
Outlaw: ur group, not to mention you.. is useless
might be good rps when hiding in a 3fg+ zerg

It's just a game Biatch

 

[old.lewstherin]

I think someone got pwned... gogo outlaw !!

 

[benedictines]

Originally posted by Asha
champs - they bug me personally but ok they don't have anything essential to a group. I think they would be ok if det issues were sorted out.

thanes - no idea how to help this endangered species. Even with more dmg, they won't be a group's first choice.

reavers - are fine except the normal det issues imo

friars - I think they would be fine if det issues were sorted out. Celerity might be ok, but more rejuv would make them overpowered - esp for pve.

If you start giving more abilities that groups have to have, it's just going to be that must worse for Albion who already have to have five classes.

I have an idea - since Mythic effectively made these redunant why not offer them a re-class? Lots of work etc but would simplify things especially for albs

 

[raekwon]

Outlaw: ur group, not to mention you.. is useless
might be good rps when hiding in a 3fg+ zerg

Make your mind up, we either lead the zerg or hide in it you can't have it both ways.As to me being useless hmmm...i seem to remeber owning your scrawny ass a few times without any other grps around.It seems to me that it is fine for hib/mid's to run in 2fg+ but as soon as we do it in return we are useless.Well tbh i don't give a flying fuk wot you or anyone else thinks of the way i play,i play for fun and as is often posted here i pay my subs and play the way I want so like it or lump it.Unlike you i'm not on here constantly whinging and slagging other people off, i treat it for what it is a Game so let people enjoy it in their own way.

 

[tildson]

Incompetence :/

 

[old.Lythande]

Holy shit, Zoyster said something I can agree with!