My letter to Mythic.

[Lambsbreed]

dunno if this will end up in /dev/null or the trashbin, but this i did send to mythic in frustration today, relevant or not:

Good day to you.

There are still one major issue about the game that really get to itch under my skin. Windowing/doing something else even while playing daoc. I'm going to tell you what i think about it looking from your and my perspective.

Your perspective:
Windowing cannot be allowed due to the risk there will be made 3rd party programs that interfere with the game, and/or getting advantage by being able to e.g look up web/forums to gain quick information on how to solve ingame issues like quests/tasks.

My perspective:
OK the 3rd party program risk can't be dealt with, yet wouldn't it be a matter of trust afterall? we pay for the game, we have rules/CoC's to obey/follow, if we break any rules or the CoC, we will get punished. I can assure you that ingame addicts who have spent loads of money AND time to come to where they are today, still want to keep their characters/account.

Then we have the multitasking advantage.
Consider this: most people have one single computer they use, play their games, do their jobs from. they simply can't gain any advantage by multitasking since it's not possible, UNLESS you got more than one computer. Having an additional computer suddenly gives you the advantage of looking up stuff most other people won't be able to while playing the game. Do you think it is right that people who can afford more than one computer should gain an advantage in this game simply because they got more money? What gives them more rights than regular people using one computer, and how do you justify that?

In my oppinion this is a matter of common sense, i am most likely to believe that the very few people who want to cheat and ruin the game for others are more likely to get busted anyways, so if it's a question of: "will allowing multitasking make the average player more unhappy because of the cheating that might be possible?" The answer would obviously be "No" from my point of view. Every single player in this game will be quite happy if they will be able to read their mail while riding from one place to another in the game, than the very few that will suffer from one occational cheat-attempt.

If possible i would like to get some feedback on this mail.

Have a nice day.

 

[Gimly]

Should you not have sent that to GOA?

Dont think you will get a response anyhow, but i agree with you.

 

[bewal]

They will spend weeks arguing afer they recive this mail. Must have been the first time it's been sent to them.

>sarcasm off<

 

[Ragnarok1978]

Well,

I hate to burst your bubble Lamb, but this mail will most likely be clicked and dragged to the trashcan.

I lost count of how many times the discussion to allow multitasking has been taken up, and regardless of how many times more I doubt anything will change.

You probably have better odds thru saving up a penny everytime soemone mentiones this subject until you can afford a 2nd pc

 

[mid_Efour]

use daox and dont tell GOA in an email ?? hows that

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

This windows thing is a lil old now, but heres my 2 pennies for what its worth.

Yes its there to stop 3rd party programs, or at least make it harder, therefore without it, youd probably be sitting there whinging abut cheat0rs, go play CS for a few days then come back.

Solving in game issues.....well if you are referring to finding quest mobs, spawn spots or the best mobs to kill, dont be so lazy and use the web sites, thats just plain boring. Try actually using the power of thought, if it says "go to skona ravine and kill XXX", then do that, find it for yourself. Failing that, you can type /advice and ask one of them or ask one of the average 500+ ppl roaming the lands.

If its to report faults / bugs or glitches, well use rightsometime and wait like the rest of us, you dont get and instant reply from it anyway.

TBH the less i see of Bill Gates money making machine the better, I play the game, talk to my m8s and try to make it less boring by finding my own way round.

 

[Dorin]

"ask one of the average 500+ ppl roaming the lands."

where ?

 

[SFXman]

Imo one of the best advantages of being able to do other things at the same time wether it be by a windowed daoc or antoher computer, is that you can look at maps... for example the new PvP server. I for one have never levelled chars in Hibernia and Midgard before, and even the simplest of quests will mean nothing to me if all it contains is the name of some city.
That's one of the numerous things though... there are many positive things one may do if they are able to multitask or use another computer.
Oh well...

 

[Belsameth]

@Whoodoo: to each his own.

I find it annoying too. if only becase I can't switch the tunes in my Winamp without logging off.
and with cheat policies as they are, I doubt cheating would become that much worse.

I do agree tho, this discussion is as old as it is pointless

 

[old.amoeba]

Originally posted by Soulcatcher
@Whoodoo: to each his own.

I find it annoying too. if only becase I can't switch the tunes in my Winamp without logging off.
and with cheat policies as they are, I doubt cheating would become that much worse.

I do agree tho, this discussion is as old as it is pointless

I recall seeing come program that allows you to do this, even whilst playing daox. Cant remember what its called though.

Currently I use daox. It lets you play daoc in a window - although you cant move the window which is a slight pain. Also its seems to run even more slowly than when fullscreen (which runs stupidly slowly considering the spec of my machine).

 

[SFXman]

I heard that the program used to control winamp from within the game is illegal as well.

 

[fl3a]

yup s***kyamp (put a *** in so i hope the post wont get deleted ) is illeagal cuz even if it doesnt need u to alt+tab or smth, it still takes commands from u while in-game.

who knows, maybe mythic has some kind of deal that ever time someone logs off they get 10$ or smth?

 

[SFXman]

Originally posted by fl3a
who knows, maybe mythic has some kind of deal that ever time someone logs off they get 10$ or smth?

Hehe.... everytime a player logs off it finds their e-mail address and sends it to well known spam mail centrals.

 

[Belsameth]

I have a multimedia keybored and mapped the media player controls to Winamp. doesn't work with 3 anymore tho (Winamp 3, that is) only thing I couldn't do in game was start Winamp

 

[SFXman]

Maybe GOA will come to your house and take away your keyboard!

 

[old.Vae]

There's a program called Sneakyamp which does not interfere with DAOC in any way. Basicly you enable chat logging and sneakyamp parses the log looking for commands thus controlling itself that way. I don't have a link but am sure a google search will provide it.

Also there is a program called Alfie which is based on suggestions from Sanya at Mythic which has MP3 controls and also many other features too such as logging how much XP you earn per session, same with RP, gold etc. You can also set it to play sound effects for various events such as say a tradeskill completing - handy when watching TV or reading while tradeskilling. Again this doesn't interfere with DAOC it just reads the information and reinterprets it into another form e.g. a sound effect. Again a google search for alfie +daoc should find it.

 

[SFXman]

Hmm, this Alfie... it was recommended by Sanya?! As in the way it could be built?
You tried it? How is it controlled?

 

[old.Vae]

Ok just checked Alfie site and my memory is either faulty or the sites changed - I suspect the former!
Anyway it was another employee of Mythic - Marty Brown.

Although the guy behind Alfie has tried to get confirmation from Sanya about it he's never had a response. However the post from Marty Brown as shown below explains their stance.

Alfie is also a chat log parser so in no way modify's Daoc. It just sits in the background and does stuff depending on what you happen to type.

Alfie Site

Other cool things Alfie does:
Plays a sound when say an insta heal is ready because it sets up a timer when you try to use something and it say 265 seconds left or whatever.
Play a sound if a mob is messed or resisted.
FAQ and more info here
This post is from the forums at http://www.ogcan.com/article.php?sid=185.

Mythic will NOT BAN For TradeHelper!
Posted on Thursday, November 01 @ 10:59:28 EST (635 Reads)
Posted by: Zanthor
Topic: TradeHelper Utility

MartyBrown writes "No, we wouldn't ban anyone for using a program which just parses the chat log and plays sounds based on the occurrence of certain text strings. However, we can't endorse its usage and we certainly can't endorse its distribution to others.

In this particular case, I can understand your frustration - in general, our game-event sound support is somewhat lacking. But, we *will* be adding more game-event sounds in the near future (sorry, I can't be more specific).

I can't endorse your program simply because it's not safe. When folks start using 3rd party programs* they unwittingly set themselves up for trouble. While most authors of these types of programs are only trying to improve some aspect of a game, others are far more malicious. They can knowingly infect their program with a computer virus. Or, they could be more insidious and include a "Trojan Horse" routine that could, for example, collect and retrieve a player's DAoC account & password as they type them.

I'm not saying that your program does anything like this, but believe me, someone, somewhere, is making one right now that they're going to share with their "friends" who they know play DAoC. Suddenly, a certain set of player accounts will be compromised even though the players know they never gave their account names and passwords to anyone. This can be a real nightmare for the owners of the compromised accounts - it's no picnic for us either.

So please folks, always be wary of 3rd party programs that "work with" any online game (or other online service for that matter).

(One thing everyone should keep in mind is that DAoC is an online game. And, strange as it may seem, there is a real-world value associated with your account, your characters and their items. So guard your account like you would any other thing you value. Single player games are not like this, and the 3rd party programs people make (e.g. to edit your saved games) are usually safe.

And, recent correspondence on this board prompts the following disclaimer/clarification: I'm *not* ordering anyone to not use 3rd party programs. I'm simply providing information which I feel players need to know. I expect everyone will use the information as they see fit.)

*In this context, "3rd party programs" means programs from someone other than Mythic that are supposed to "work with" DAoC.

Marty "



Zanthor comments: This post by Mythic confirms that you wont be banned for using this utility. He also points out a lot of REALLY good ideas for using 3rd party programs, like being careful because sometimes people will try to screw you over. I highly suggest you scan all files for nastyness and virus's and the like. The archives here ARE clean of any evilness. If you obtain my programs elsewhere, I cannot guarantee any such status.

 

[SFXman]

Actually looks quite nice if you ask me, Alfie that is.

 

[Damon_D]

HEHEHE good one hihihihi...especialy the trust part and that peopel who have invested time and money wont cheat LOL !!

I'm not saying its not a pain it cant be window'ed , but from my 4 years of playing UO , I know there are peopel out there who will try to hack peopel and use 3'rd party programs to get any advantage they can.. may it be radars.. speedhack's..things that alter the x,y,z axis.. and what not

 

[cadiva]

Call me old fashioned but....

I tend to find either a CD player/record player/tape deck/Sony Walkman etc etc etc works just as good as an MP3 player for music.

As for maps - print the buggers out or buy the new Prima Atlas strat guide and have it at your side - it's just a easy to look at a piece of paper on your desk as it is to open up Explorer and wait ages for it to load on a map site while you scroll up and down trying to find whatever it is you're looking for.

Like I said, I might be old fashioned but I thought the idea of playing an alleged role play game was that you got into it and gave it your full attention rather than having to say in group chat - oh sorry guys afk a sec because my MP3 player just stopped working and my grannnie is spamming my ICQ.

I would suspect, once more, that those who want to have the windows option and multi-tasking are the younger end of the spectrum and most likely blokes (she adds in a completely generalising kind of a fashion)

 

[Belsameth]

I agree. going AFK while grouping can be horrible. and being unable to task switch reduces this.
on the other hand, there's plenty of things where it IS handy.

make notes for instance. you can't alt-tab to scribble something down in a textfile om your desktop. and we all know what happens when you get a piece of paper instead.

checking these forums while on the long journey from Lyoness to Sauvage.

for tradeskillers: making that item that takes 15 minutes to complete, at which they can only blankly stare at the screen. now they can read the BW forum or whatnot. and even better. when dealing with customers you can help them far better because you can use that excelent Tradeskill spreadsheet, instead of relying on 10k prints scattered throughout the room.

all those kind of things, and I'm sure each of you can come up with a dozen more, far outweight the disadvantage of a few cheats that can only be used when having focus.

 

[SFXman]

Thing for me is that I have music on my Winamp list that I probably couldn't even find from a record store so easily... also, changing CDs is much more complicated than shuffle for example. On top of that my stereo speakers are far away from my computer since my room is pretty damn large (the entire 3rd floor of my house), and even though my speakers are huge the sound comes out wrong and from the different direction so to speak.
As for the IE loading time, well that's why I have mozilla open at all times with many tabs (only one window), ones with KT locations, one with maps, one with BW and maybe one or two others like quest lists. Maybe multiple maps open at the same time.
I do concentrate on teh game fully but at times when resting for example I have time to change music or check a map or whatever...
Just my opinion.

 

[cadiva]

Originally posted by SFXman
I do concentrate on teh game fully but at times when resting for example I have time to change music or check a map or whatever...
Just my opinion.

How can you concentrate fully when you're thinking about what tune you're gonna play next!

Seriously tho, I do appreciate some people like to be able to tab between three million things at once - I think it's a boy thing as most women I know are able to concentrate on one thing at once for a few hours without getting bored

Disclaimer: The above statement is a joke okay fellas

As for crafting, I read a book usually while I'm crafting, or I'm alternatively talking to my guildmates in guild chat, neither of which interferes with what's occuring on the slowest green bar in history.

 

[SFXman]

I'd agree on the fact that women can concentrate on one thing only, us men though can handle many things at once
*cough*Driving*cough*
But anyway, resting can be a lot longer time than it takes to check a map or change a song on Winamp. Not like there is a compulsory chatting session during downtime with your group members

 

[liste]

Plays a sound when say an insta heal is ready because it sets up a timer when you try to use something and it say 265 seconds left or whatever.
Play a sound if a mob is messed or resisted.

if the program is just reading the log and then performing actions that does not happen IN-GAME (such as winamp), i would not call it cheating.

But timer notice?
Mezzed notice?


Come on. you cant seriously tell me, that you thnk something that affects your ACTUAL game, is allowed?
That is cheating, my friend. No way around it.

 

[old.chesnor]

There is an app that helps crafting. All it does is passively look at the chat.log file and play wavs when certain events occur. The author sent details to Mythic (mainly to prove that it could not be used for macroing). They essentially said they neither approve or disapprove, and the user should be aware of the risks.

Writing a program that looks at chat.log, and plays a wav 10mins after you use insta heal is NOT cheating. Period.

Mythic can have no control over what else your PC is doing when you run daoc. They cannot forbid the use of programs that are passive and do not communicate with, or affect, daoc in any way. End of story.

By the way, the program that can be used to assist crafting (it plays sounds when craft events such as complete, fail, out of materials occurs) can easily be modified to play any wav of your choice whenever any predictable text occurs in chat.log. Its simple.

 

[old.Vae]

A timer notice is just the same as you setting a countdown on a stopwatch with an alarm.

The messed/resisted sound is simply displaying the message you are receiving on screen in a more readily identifiable way.

The point is that they don't interefere with the running of Daoc the program in any way. They are completely seperate programs which happen to take some input from a text file output by Daoc.

 

[Lambsbreed]

Originally posted by Whoodoo_RD
This windows thing is a lil old now, but heres my 2 pennies for what its worth.

Yes its there to stop 3rd party programs, or at least make it harder, therefore without it, youd probably be sitting there whinging abut cheat0rs, go play CS for a few days then come back.

And honestly i did not believe this would end up in flaming. My intention with this mail was not to make any instant changes, but just let them know that there is atleast one more out there that dislike how it is at this point.

Obviously you believe i'm one of those average 14year old kids CS playing kids. No disrespect but you are wrong.

TBH the less i see of Bill Gates money making machine the better, I play the game, talk to my m8s and try to make it less boring by finding my own way round.

Good point. But some people actually got other things to do rather than looking at DAOC all the time, Microsoft or not.

 

[liste]

Vae, yes. it is just like setting a stop watch.

so do that instead. it gives you something that you can use to your advantage in the game. hence, it is a cheat.

the crafting one, is ALSO a cheat, be it a little less serious