My God!

[JingleBells]

A Labour MP who makes sense

someone punch me, am I dreaming?

 

[Raven]

Fucking hell.

I imagine Uncle Gordon will silence him though.

"Green MSP Patrick Harvie criticised the MP's views as "loathsome moralising".

"Not a word about sex education. Not a word about the rights of the women Tom is so keen to judge," he added. "

That fucker will be first against the wall!

 

[RandomBastard]

A Labour MP who makes sense

someone punch me, am I dreaming?

If you are, does that make me a figment of your imagination? Cause thats the only way this all makes sense!

 

[Jupitus]

Sue Robertson, director of One Parent Families Scotland, said the comments were an example of the stigmatisation of single parents.

"We are not actually talking about these young parents spending a lifetime on benefits," she said.

"Research has shown that what's effectively happening is that young parents have their children young, the children grow up and then the young parents go back into education and then into employment."

and it's nutheads like this PC-embroiled bitch that try to deny it....

 

[Jeros]

Somone should let him know why people are so "bloody miserable" during whats going on is at the moment is they are fearful of getting made redundant and being unable to pay the mortgage and losing there homes.

You kind of expect him to say something like "well i only earn 130 thou a year and i manage!"

 

[Cadelin]

and it's nutheads like this PC-embroiled bitch that try to deny it....

I have a friend that had children (accidentally) very young. Her children are starting nursery school and primary school now and she has just qualified as a teacher. Obviously this is anecdotal evidence but if there is genuine research that shows most people go on to lead product lives then I don't see why it couldn't be true.

 

[Wij]

Arguments on both sides. I've known teen mothers who went on to be single successful tax-paying heroes. I've also known teen mothers who just got up the duff in order to get a council house and more benefits to spend on Woodpecker and skunk.

I must stress I was not the father in either case

 

[`mongoose]

and it's nutheads like this PC-embroiled bitch that try to deny it....

Jup you're so wrong there it's untrue.

This fella is just spouting yet another stereotype. It's a belief and not a fact and that's why his blog is not just dangerous, it's also incredibly reckless.

As an MP he has a responsibility and duty of care to look after his constituents. This blog does neither and it alienates and stigmatises an already struggling group of people further.

Christ most of you are parents - you know how hard it is to bring up kids, mine aren't teenagers yet and I pray they don't fall into the same trap. Kids think it won't happen to them, and some of them get unlucky.

Perhaps the father who was proud of his daughter was trying to offer emotional and public support of his daughter in a time when she felt vulnerable? Sounds like being a good fucking parent to me - standing by your child even when you don't agree with their actions. Maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was a beer swilling chav who beats his wife and fucks his whippets nightly. I don't know, and I wouldn't really care if he weren't being castigated on some moralistic fuckwits blog. A cowardly action as I suspect this old tosser thinks that he will have neither the means nor the wit to read the diatribe and defend himself adequately.

These things fuck me off because they take a whole range of people with various needs, causes and issues and lump them into one bucket. They then get labelled and left as such. We then as a society say oh they're lazy whilst conveniently pulling out people who we know in that group and saying apart from my friend xxxxx because I know her and continue stigmatising the rest, unaware of our hipocrisy and double standards.

What this government SHOULD be asking is

Why do SOME kids think having a child is their BEST option at 16?

That's the real question. They won't ask it though (or rather they won't tell us that they've asked it) because (IMO) they know what the issues are, and there isn't alot they can do to rectify the situation as it some of it requires policy, some of it requires education and some of it is plain old free market economics. What it will also point out is that our support services are over stretched, poorly equipped and in many cases not fit for purpose. Changing that will take money that frankly no government has without significant rises in tax which let's face will get them a one way ticket to the opposition side of the bench.

If you think that all kids who have babies are chavs then so be it. I just hope your children (if you have any) never fall foul of the trap of teenage pregnancy. I've seen how some of these girls get treated and it's tragic at times.

M

 

[Furr]

StuffM

I think he's making a completely different point than the one you are berating him for and haven't properly read his post or you're a bleeding heart liberal. Why? Because from where I stand he is making complete sense and saying what he means in a way that the vast majority of people in this country would agree with, yet with none of that fluff speak of the social "progressives" that have shaped new Labours policy over the past decade delivering us into this mess that has, without doubt, created more deprivation in some areas of the country than any time in the last few decades and created a huge burden on the tax payer.

Mr Harris appears to be saying that no longer should society turn a blind eye and tolerate the crisis of moral failure that has swept the society, that branding people as wrong is essential for creating a contract between individuals and the wider society for acceptable behaviour. That teenage girls shouldn’t be having under-age sex because it’s wrong. That children shouldn't be having children because its wrong, or as he says is wanting people to be off benefits, educated and into work "right wing"? But this can be expanded to all aspects of society such as spurious marriage and divorce, binge drinking, taking out reckless loans, giving out reckless loans! living beyond your means etc , it's all wrong and society should say so.

I will make no bones about it,I believe that if you make a ill judged, reckless and avoidable mistake, that should the shit hit the fan then the problem is on your on your head, society shouldn't have to pick up the pieces and award idiotic and reckless behaviour with treats.
In other countries and in our very recent past if you took the path of morally corrupt behaviour then the result would be being ostracised, this fear of being on the receiving end of your families, communities and societies wrath was a good controller of what people should and should not do, but public correctness, laws to promoter liberal "progressive" behaviour, and a government that is run by complete twats has made saying anything that could hurt someone feelings, discriminate and exclude people based on their actions basically, if not acutally, criminal.

 

[Scouse]

I just hope your children (if you have any) never fall foul of the trap of teenage pregnancy.

If I ever had kids I'd make damn sure they weren't stupid enough to have sex without whacking themselves on the pill first.

Also, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't think twice about getting themselves scooped out by the doc if they'd been brought up by me

 

[DaGaffer]

This fella is just spouting yet another stereotype. It's a belief and not a fact and that's why his blog is not just dangerous, it's also incredibly reckless.

Ah, so it's NOT true that the UK has the highest levels of teenage pregnancy in Europe? Or is that just spouting a stereotype? Thought not.

Whether you like it or not, there's something fundamentally wrong with the way Britain as a nation is rearing its children, a problem that's not being replicated to anything like the same extent elsewhere. British kids are no more stupid, no brighter than their foreign counterparts, so you have to look to the system that allows, even indulges, inappropriate behaviour for young girls and boys. Its nothing to do with the age of consent (other countries have lower), I'm very doubtful its anything to do with basic sex education - its not brilliant but as I said, these kids aren't uniquely stupid and they have the example of other teenage mothers in their own classrooms, so it leaves our culture and our systems.

You're right to say that we should be asking why young girls think teenage motherhood is their best option; but there are two halves to that analysis; one is about the paucity of opportunity for these girls, and fair play, its an issue; but it was an issue 20-30 years ago and hasn't really got worse, and its a bigger issue in many other countries, so these girls can't get off the hook that easily, because the other half of the argument is why they think they can get away with it, and that's about benefits culture and the lack of stigma attached to their behaviour. In this regard, the MP is right, some times you have to point the finger and say its not acceptable and we won't support bad behaviour.

 

[`mongoose]

loads of stuff

Blimey - out wall of texted!

For the record I am a lefty. Everyone I feel knows this and I feel my posts reflect this, as a lefty I am as frustrated and disappointed with our current government, the nanny state, and political correctness as the next person but....

I've read his blog and I feel my interpretation is correct. In his eyes having sex under the age of 16 is wrong. It's actually illegal, what has his government done to educate/protect/prevent that? What have any government done to prevent it for that matter? When was the last time a child was prosecuted for being pregnant under the legal age of consent? I've done no research but from memory I seem to recall a number of boys being prosecuted for underage sex but this varied from seriously disturbing (very underage) to silly and irresponsible teenage antics that are still illegal (14-15 consensual - equal aged)

Whose fault for the lack of enforcement of the law is it ? It's the crown prosecution and by extension the government's fault. Where's his assumption or recognition of responsibility for that? Not mentioned in his blog I noticed.

Then there is his assertion that teenage mothers spend their lives on benefit. Where's his evidence to support this statement? There won't be any because there's very little research been done on it because in my opinion no government really cares about it.

There's alot of what you say that I agree with, responsibility for actions, getting people off long term benefit is stuff that you'd be mad to disagree with but there has to be a strategy in place behind it. Otherwise we will end up with more deprivation and more disparity of opportunity than we have now. This however has been a failing of all governments over the last 20-30 years - not just Labour.

I'll stay away from the econmic complaint you raised because I have serious issues with the wide range of irresponsible economic experts, consultants and institutions who are at fault here. It's not just the government's fault in my opinion and I'm sure there are many who would agree with me (despite their dislike for our current government)

In other countries and in our very recent past if you took the path of morally corrupt behaviour then the result would be being ostracised, this fear of being on the receiving end of your families, communities and societies wrath was a good controller of what people should and should not do, but public correctness, laws to promoter liberal "progressive" behaviour, and a government that is run by complete twats has made saying anything that could hurt someone feelings, discriminate and exclude people based on their actions basically, if not acutally, criminal.

Don't believe the hype. It doesn't stop this happening. It won't solve the situation in the UK - it just pushes it underground and forces the unfortunate recipient of the stigmata underground or further out to outskirts of society.

There's a massive difference between setting women's rights back 50 years and political correctness. This mp's blog places the onus for the blame on the mother. Places the criticism on the mother. At no point does he discuss the family unit, the concerns raised about the father's reponsbility or the responsibilty of both families in supporting their children. The only time he mentions the family is to talk of the shame he would feel.

Teenage single parents are already stigmatised, ostrascised in many cases and a very vulnerable member of our society. I don't believe moralistic crusading or social ostracising is a viable method of minimising the members of this group. It won't stop teenage girls getting pregnant because it doesn't address the question that he raises without even considering.

If we have a problem with teenage single parents living on benefit in state accomodation and this problem is spiralling out of control... Why do teenage girls think this is a preferable opportunity to finishing their education and a fulfilling career?

Answer that question and you'll see why it's happening and whether it's an issue that needs to be tackled or whether it's a smokescreen to hide failings in policy elsewhere within the system.

in short this fella's blog is massively reckless, completely ill informed, badly judged and poorly researched. That a member of parliment has made this on his public blog only further damages this government in my opinon.



M

 

[`mongoose]

Ah, so it's NOT true that the UK has the highest levels of teenage pregnancy in Europe? Or is that just spouting a stereotype? Thought not.

I should have qualified my statement. This gentleman has opined that we "have an army of teenage mothers living off benefit which is a national catastrophe"

This has been refuted by a spokesperson of some womens group as being a fallacy and she has offered research proving that a large proportion of teenage mothers re-enter education and become productive members of society contributing their share of tax etc back.

Personally I still think we need to get to the bottom of this - we need to know why so many girls are getting pregnant and where this culture has arisen from.

It might be worth noting that our culture has similarities with American culture in many ways - particularly the pop youth culture and this is a similar problem in the states.

I'm not blaming the music or anything like that but if our cultures are similar and we're bothing having similar issues it stands to reason that both countries are doing something fundamentally wrong.

I am not advocating a lifetime of support here folks, I just don't like the hysterical nature of his posts. It's all very well to point the finger and lay the blame but it won't solve the problem. What we need as a society to do is discover why it's happening and then look at means of reducing the issue and hopefully preventing it. There will always (imo) be an element of teenage pregnancy because there will always be an element of women who want to have children early and have a plan around that lifestyle choice.

M