''Murica shutting down'

[Gwadien]

I don't get it, someone explain, it seems silly.

 

[BloodOmen]

Ran out of fast food clearly.

 

[Raven]

It's some meaningless bollocks that causes money that isn't actually there to change value.

People will still go to work, have dinner, go out, watch TV etc, means nothing for normal people.

 

[Scouse]

"If we ever let private companies control the system of credit your children will wake up homeless in the country their fathers founded".

Thomas Jefferson.

 

[Gwadien]

This smells like the constitutional crisis that we had over the House of Lords

 

[Scouse]

Nah. They just can't pay their bills. The government is beholden to the banks and has to lay off staff with no pay for a while.

Couple of weeks and the democrats will cave in and the republicans will get their way - despite it being against the election result...

 

[Moriath]

It's some meaningless bollocks that causes money that isn't actually there to change value.

People will still go to work, have dinner, go out, watch TV etc, means nothing for normal people.

Unless those normal people want to go to museums and such. Also those considered as non emergency employees will not get paid until this is resolved. So teachers etc won't get paid although schools usually keep running.

It's far from meaningless to those who are paid by the government or rely on government services. They say it would cost the USA economy eight billion dollars a day.

 

[Chilly]

It's happened because for Government departments to get money, Congress has to approve the budget every year to pay that money. The deadline is midnight on the last day of September. It's the 1st of October now and no budget passed, hence "non-essential" departments have been shut down because there is literally no legal way to pay them. It would be illegal to do so. In a couple of weeks another bullshit deadline will appear: the debt ceiling vote. The be able to continue borrowing money (the rate at which the US does so is decreasing pretty quickly, btw) Congress has to vote in favour. Every time these two deadlines appear, the Republicans use them as a giant game of chicken to get their way on issues like Obama's healthcare laws. They're acting monumentally irresponsibly, and frankly if I were in charge I'd arrest them all and try them for treason.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Just about everyone relies on government services, think about it next time you have a sh*t

 

[Moriath]

This smells like the constitutional crisis that we had over the House of Lords

In order to continue functioning any increase in the national debt level has to be approved by senate and congress I think. If they don't do this once a year and the debt is increasing then this happens.

The bank bit to the debt will happen on the 17th October so that is another date to look out for. This is where the debt ceiling supported by the banks will need to be renegotiated otherwise the will run out of money again.

But as said its all monopoly figures and made up stuff, how can an economy function with trillions in debt at some point it's going to get unmanageable unless they really cut back on stuff and start making an excess.

 

[Gwadien]

Every time these two deadlines appear, the Republicans use them as a giant game of chicken to get their way on issues like Obama's healthcare laws. They're acting monumentally irresponsibly, and frankly if I were in charge I'd arrest them all and try them for treason.

This is what I mean by the constitutional crisis - surely because Obamas been voted in by the American People, he, and his party should be able to pass through legislation pretty easily, but because there's two tiers which both have quite a big voice it makes it almost impossible? Much like the Liberals unable to pass stuff 'cos the Tories always had a majority in the House of Lords.

Also which is which and how do they get voted in? - I'd imagine The House of Representatives is the House of Commons equivalent?

 

[Moriath]

Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_government_of_the_United_States

Your welcome

 

[Chilly]

You're welcome

You're welcome

 

[Chilly]

This is what I mean by the constitutional crisis - surely because Obamas been voted in by the American People, he, and his party should be able to pass through legislation pretty easily, but because there's two tiers which both have quite a big voice it makes it almost impossible? Much like the Liberals unable to pass stuff 'cos the Tories always had a majority in the House of Lords.

Also which is which and how do they get voted in? - I'd imagine The House of Representatives is the House of Commons equivalent?

On the other hand, the senate and congress are more recently elected than the President, so in theory they have a stronger democratic mandate than the executive. However, you are correct, situations like these where the opposition can almost entirely veto any legislation they do not like is not how to run a Government.

The commons can override the Lords, in the UK, by the way. The commons can do literally anything, they are the power. They let the Lords live through mercy and tradition.

 

[Poag]

Effectively its a giant cluster fuck of the Republicans trying to make policy whilst holding the smaller number of votes.

US is divided into Legislative and Executive Branches. El Presidente is Executive while Congress and Senate are Legislative.

The president can submit Budgets to congress for approval, more often than not tho Congress bins them and writes there own, which by law once congress passes it the president has to follow. It also sets out taxation but i'll come back to this.

The budget has been 'passed' however whats happened is that the House (of representatives...also happens to be Republican dominated) had pegged another bill to it (which is a stupid thing, pegging bills to bills). This bill repeals the Obamacare funding AND kills off a medical device tax thats also there to fund Obamacare.

The House then passed this combined bill up to the Senate recently, the Senate, which is Democrat controlled majority, then rejected the bill. Sent there own one back to the House which was just the budget and no pegged bills.

The House rejected this one and then yesterday put forward the last Budget (and peg) which reduced the killing of Obamacare to delaying funding for 1 Year, but also killed off the Medical Device funding again. This got passed up to the Senate who again rejected it, passing back just the budget again.

At about 11:00pm EST last night the House then called for a Cross House/Senate committee to try and work out the problems. To little to late really, by this point in time the Executive Branch had already told departments to start the orderly shutdown.


Obamacare, or the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" is considered to be a crowning achievement in the Democrat camp and thus wont be sacrificed to the Republicans. It is a bill that has after all, passed Congress, Passed Senate, passed Supreme Court Review and been signed into law previously, by both parties. It just happens to go 'live' today.


-------
So thats the government funding problem, but this is small fry really to the bigger issue coming up the hill on October 17th. The debt ceiling.

As stated above the Executive Branch doesn't create taxation or budget law, thats Legislative. In the UK Executive creates budgets and taxation.
So the Legislative branch says "This is what you can tax, this is what you have to spend...by law" If the two aren't the same then the Executive branch has the power to borrow money to make up the difference. However, in 1979 a rule was passed stating that "If the budget is greater than taxation, the debt limit is automatically raised/ignored" It was called the Gephardt Rule. This rule lasted until 1995 when a Republican house repealed the rule and the debt limit came back into being a real thing again.

So the Legislative Branch says spend this much, tax this much, and dont borrow over this much. When the three don't balance however you get the fiscal cliff we had last year. Leaving the Executive branch one of three options, all illegal, Ignore the tax Law and make there own, ignore the Budget and make there own..or ignore the debt limit. All of which can get the President impeached...but in reality..probably won't, government branches (FBI) wouldn't want to try him and the Senate wouldn't pass the impeachment.

----

I highly advise the watching of some CCPGrey's videos on the subject of US elections, debt and other things. Hes a yank living in the UK and does some pretty good videos.

This one about the debt limit is particularly good.




I also highly recommend the Electoral College video and the Primaries video.

 

[Draylor]

The American Taliban is flexing its muscles.

Round 2 is scheduled for Oct 17th, the only question is whether this farce is resolved before then or not.

 

[Gwadien]

The commons can override the Lords, in the UK, by the way. The commons can do literally anything, they are the power. They let the Lords live through mercy and tradition.

Aye, that's what I was getting at, I forget which Tory leader it was but he basically said, we'll always have complete control over the Lords, so we'll override everything the Liberals want, even if they're dominant in the Commons, hence the constitutional reforms.

Think it's about America do the same.

 

[Chilly]

Aye, that's what I was getting at, I forget which Tory leader it was but he basically said, we'll always have complete control over the Lords, so we'll override everything the Liberals want, even if they're dominant in the Commons, hence the constitutional reforms.

Think it's about America do the same.

The constitutional reforms are nothing to do with it. The Commons has had overruling power for over a century. The Commons has previously removed/crowned monarchs, I highly doubt a room full of rich cunts next door would ever get in their way if they really wanted to do something.

For all the talk of the Queen being top dog, she's not. It's a purely ceremonial role and everyone pretends to go along with the pretence that her signature means something. It may, in some small technical sense mean something, but the Commons can just decapitate the monarchy if it ever takes the piss, no hassles.

 

[Moriath]

You're welcome

True

 

[rynnor]

Just about everyone relies on government services, think about it next time you have a sh*t

Water and Sewage services are privitised in the uk...

 

[Gwadien]

Water and Sewage services are privitised in the uk...

and we pay for it, hahaha

 

[rynnor]

Spoke to a guy in washington - he said it was a big deal locally as a major employer but that the traffic was as bad as ever today.

 

[Gwadien]

If anything doesn't this more or less prove that the Government doesn't give a shit about the people?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Water and Sewage services are privitised in the uk...

Good for you then

 

[megadave]

Surely there should be some consequences for Congress for pulling shit like this

 

[Scouse]

Surely there should be some consequences for Congress for pulling shit like this

There is. Loads of people out of work. Voter fallout.

 

[rynnor]

Surely there should be some consequences for Congress for pulling shit like this

In theory but then Obamacare isnt that popular either so both sides just blame the other.

It is a very irresponsible weapon to wield tho and may have unintended consequences.

 

[Wij]

Consequences like massively increasing the USA's debts in the long-term by forcing up its borrowing costs and creating uncertainty in its recovery.

Sort of like cutting off your head to prevent toothache.

 

[SilverHood]

There is. Loads of people out of work. Voter fallout.

The problem is that there's only two political parties. Both share 95% of the same politics. There is no alternative vote (yet), because to form a third party would doom your previous party and would cost a small fortune.

Impact appears to be near zero for me here in NYC. Less people on the subway this morning.

 

[Cerb]

On the other hand, the senate and congress are more recently elected than the President, so in theory they have a stronger democratic mandate than the executive. However, you are correct, situations like these where the opposition can almost entirely veto any legislation they do not like is not how to run a Government.

The commons can override the Lords, in the UK, by the way. The commons can do literally anything, they are the power. They let the Lords live through mercy and tradition.

While I agree with almost everything you've said, Congress was actually elected 3 years ago now, before this last election. So the President actually has a mandate right now, and one AFTER Obamacare for that matter.