News Motorists Get the Shaft Again?

[Scouse]

Or have notified the market that they were going to do a big gold-sale in advance so that the price could drop dramatically. The clueless ****.

When reality is too dumb to believe....conspiracy?

 

[tierk]

Or have notified the market that they were going to do a big gold-sale in advance so that the price could drop dramatically. The clueless ****.

Yea but they will quite happily sell everything thing from under you, close every factory that employ more then twenty people, reduce the basic services that are essentially the only thing that keeps poor people off the streets begging.

Seriously the way you guys go on about the Conservatives, like they are some sort of miracle solution to a global economic melt down? Its not like they have not been in power before for 18 years where they managed to destroy whatever industry was left in this country. i MEAN REALLY I GIVE A SHIT ABOUT FOX HUNTING, that is what is important to me in this current crisis we are facing today.

If i blame anyone for what we see today in the UK it because of a total failure of the Conservatives - in the first instance - to keep any sort of industry alive in Britain, forcing the entire country into flipping burgers.

Labour have been no better in the long run though that would be as a direct cause of the decision taken by Blair to be more Conservative then the Conservative Party. All the main political Parties are SHIT and are set on a course of screwing over the people and the country and it IS because of this that so many people are looking at alternatives that they would never even take a peek at, if they felt represented by the main parties.

****RANT OFF****

 

[Raven]

Well no. If we had continued to be a manufacturer we would be in a hell of a worse state than we are in now, there is absolutely no way we could or can compete with China or India to produce low quality junk. High end well made British produce is still available but comes at a premium (you get what you pay for)
Taking us down the route of a service provider gave labour years of prosperity which they quite happily took the credit for, only when their (and other governments naturally) lax controls and regulations back fired did the shit hit the fan. They didn't save while the times were good, the famous gold sale is a prime example of this. We were booming at the time so what possessed them to sell off our gold reserve at a fraction of the market value, or acres upon acres of public land? Either they were fucking it up from the start (much like someone in debt starts ebaying stuff to meet the bills) and didn't tell anyone or they were simply incompetent.

The conservatives saved the country after Labour came close to bankrupting us, I think people want them to do it again. I for one have always voted for them. They make unpopular moves but usually they are fair. Unlike Labour who just tax the shit out of everything, diverting funds to plug other holes in their budget. Road tax not going on road repairs, green tax not going on green schemes etc, everything is a tax to cover their ineptitude. Skimming money from educational funding to pay for totally un-related things. They lied to take us into two wars, one of which we are still stuck in, there is no way we can just pull out over night, we are stuck there until its stabilised now. Labour are a joke and the sooner they fuck off the better.

 

[Trem]

Raven = correct.

People forget the Tories had to sort out Labours shit the last time, thats exactly what will happen this time and Labour know it. They are leaving a total shit storm for the Tories which they will then blame on the Tories rather than themselves.

 

[MYstIC G]

Labour are a joke and the sooner they fuck off the better.

You get an A*

 

[rynnor]

The sad fact is that theres still very little difference between Conservatives and Labour - they are both short termist political institutions.

Labour are currently lieing about the real depth of the cuts they will make after the election because they want to get re-elected - the conservatives would do the same thing.

Whoever is in power next will be basically forced to do the same things.

For the last decade you could barely slip a credit card into the space between the two parties and despite some cosmetic differences like fox hunting they are still arm in arm.

Nothing much will change regardless of who wins. There will still be no government brave enough to tell people that they cant have first class services without much heavier scandanavian style taxes.

They wont address the fundamental problems with the pension system - namely that its the worlds biggest pyramid scheme which will one day collapse.

They wont even dare to suggest that we might look at replacing the NHS with a system of health insurance to avoid spiralling costs.

Short termism robs politics of any courage in this country.

 

[tierk]

Well no. If we had continued to be a manufacturer we would be in a hell of a worse state than we are in now, there is absolutely no way we could or can compete with China or India to produce low quality junk...

Sorry but that is not correct. Germany is a country that has taken active decisions on a governmental level, that they will manufacture goods in Germany. The exact opposite of the Conservatives, who in their infinite wisdom, under Thatcher, decided that we do not need any real jobs and everyone should flip burgers for a living.

Germany is a country that has always been known for producing high quality goods and is a top exporter today and competing with China and India. The difference is that the Germans are prepared to spend on social services, education, health and insuring that manufacturing jobs stay in Germany. Is it perfect? NO! Is it working far better than in the UK? Yes by far!

Taking us down the route of a service provider gave labour years of prosperity which they quite happily took the credit for, only when their (and other governments naturally) lax controls and regulations back fired did the shit hit the fan.

Agreed that they have taken credit for it. However, Conservative governments, Thatcher and Major were both rubbish at managing the economy. They took us through two recessions and managed those oh so well. The ERM fiasco, interest rates running at over 15% to name a few.
Yes, they just did such a wonderful job, what with all those controls and tight monetary bullshit!

They did not save while the times were good, the famous gold sale is a prime example of this. We were booming at the time so what possessed them to sell off our gold reserve at a fraction of the market value, or acres upon acres of public land? Either they were fucking it up from the start (much like someone in debt starts ebaying stuff to meet the bills) and didn't tell anyone or they were simply incompetent.

Ok let’s forget all the companies that have been sold off on the cheap by the Conservatives - Gas, Telecoms, and Utilities. Oh and that has turned out so well hasn't it what with all the promises of competition will bring prices down drastically for the consumer. Let’s not mention all the schools that had to sell their playing fields to private developers so that they could maintain their budgets. Off course, the Councils didn’t have to sell land on the cheap to private developers either.

The conservatives saved the country

No they didn’t! They screwed it beyond repair and we are finally seeing the results of decisions taken by Conservatives to kill all manufacturing in this country. The divisions between the rich and poor has gotten bigger, no sense of security – regarding jobs – no sense of moral responsibility, the expansion of yob culture, these are all factors that can be traced back to the destruction of our manufacturing base.

The changes that the Conservatives instituted in the 80’s have been an unmitigated disaster and will take at the minimum a generation to put right – if the political will is there, which clearly it is not.

They make unpopular moves but usually they are fair.

Yes very fair indeed Poll Tax?!??! They are a party that is in not in anyway representative of the people in the UK and are directly representing a tiny minority within the population. Look at their stance on inheritance tax, does it seem fair to you? It’s not like the rich already have a billion and one ways of keeping their money out of the hands of the tax man with all the little loop holes and hidey holes they use.

I mean really, at this time of economic hardship do I truly give a flying fuck about foxhunting? Is that the only issue that Conservatives are prepared to discuss, when we are 6 months at the most away from an election? I wonder why they refuse to discuss what they will do more openly?

Unlike Labour who just tax the shit out of everything, diverting funds to plug other holes in their budget. Road tax not going on road repairs, green tax not going on green schemes etc, everything is a tax to cover their ineptitude.

Can I ask do you actually know who introduced this whole concept of escalator taxes on fuel? Conservatives. Also just too clear up a little misconception, Road Tax is not specifically collected to build roads, it is just another source of income for ANY government.

I for one would be happy to pay higher taxes IF one of these clowns called leaders would actually be able to deliver a semi decent return on it in terms of services.

They lied to take us into two wars, one of which we are still stuck in, there is no way we can just pull out over night, we are stuck there until its stabilized now.

I think we can both agree on this issue but once again don’t pull the wool over people’s eyes as all Conservatives supported the invasion, with the exception of Ken Clarke. Duncan Smith, Michael Howard and yes even Cameron. So don’t try to use this as a major plus for the Conservatives, it isn’t.

The system of elections in the UK is shit. We have not had a real representative parliament due to the ridiculous “First Past the Post” system we have in the UK. As it works currently a party like the LibDems poll consistently at around the 20%-25% at election times have a total of only 10% of seats in Parliament.

Change this system and force the governments to be coalitions and we might have a situation where decisions could be taken that would be for the betterment of everyone or society at large instead of the system we have currently, which clearly is not working.

 

[Tom]

Tierk, perhaps you should take a look at the 1983 Labour Party Manifesto before you continue.

 

[rynnor]

Change this system and force the governments to be coalitions and we might have a situation where decisions could be taken that would be for the betterment of everyone or society at large instead of the system we have currently, which clearly is not working.

You cannot reform the system where the average citizen is stupid, unrealistic and un-interested in politics - we dont have the wrong system - we have the wrong kind of voters.

 

[00dave]

You're using this "flipping burgers" arguement a lot tierk, how many of us Freddies in the UK flip burgers? Comparing our former manufacturing industry to Germany's is unwise too, as far as I know the German people don't have a habit of going on strike when things don't go their way, a way of life for the British worker as proven over the past year or so.

But the fact of the matter is that Labour are shit, they have proven themselves to be shit and we know they're shit.

The Conservatives are probably shit, but haven't proven they're shit yet.

I believe the conservatives are the lesser of two evils in this upcoming election.

 

[Trem]

Also not forgetting that when the Tories get in power it will be a leader who the people have actually voted for, unlike fuckeye who is our leader at the minute.

 

[tierk]

Tierk, perhaps you should take a look at the 1983 Labour Party Manifesto before you continue.

What on earth for?

You cannot reform the system where the average citizen is stupid, unrealistic and un-interested in politics - we dont have the wrong system - we have the wrong kind of voters.

Ok yea that is clearly the problem. The reason people feel a disconnect with the politicians and politics in general is because it doesnt make a difference which way you vote for the last 30 years it has been more of the same.

You're using this "flipping burgers" arguement a lot tierk, how many of us Freddies in the UK flip burgers? Comparing our former manufacturing industry to Germany's is unwise too, as far as I know the German people don't have a habit of going on strike when things don't go their way, a way of life for the British worker as proven over the past year or so.

But the fact of the matter is that Labour are shit, they have proven themselves to be shit and we know they're shit.

The Conservatives are probably shit, but haven't proven they're shit yet.

I believe the conservatives are the lesser of two evils in this upcoming election.

The flippers are a way of making the point that we have become a services nation rather than a building nation. It is not meant literally. Also to build on your question about how many of the FH peeps are flippers, let me ask how many of them are unemployed - long term or intermittently.

I like to make the German comparsion mainly because i visted the country in the summer for a few days this summer and i have to say i am impressed. If they can do it so can we. Just in case you think otherwise, they also strike as well, which is acceptable or should be in a democracy.

No argument about Labour being shit i just take exception to people bleating on about how great the Conservatives are when quite clearly they are the same shit if not worse and imho the real reason this country is steadly going to the dogs.

 

[Tom]

What on earth for?

You're slagging the conservative government of the 80s and 90s as though it was the worst possible thing that could ever happen. Whinging about the poverty gap, who cares about the poverty gap so long as all incomes rise?

You must, like I, be able to remember the power cuts in the 70s. We still manufacture things in this country, we just don't go around belting girders into shape. We manufacture plenty of high technology goods, you just won't see them in the shops.

Claiming that the Conservatives ruined this country's economy is just about the most stupid claim a person could ever make. The Labour government we have now has for years been leeching off the back of the conservative reforms, and now they've realised that they don't understand the economy at all.

 

[00dave]

The flippers are a way of making the point that we have become a services nation rather than a building nation. It is not meant literally. Also to build on your question about how many of the FH peeps are flippers, let me ask how many of them are unemployed - long term or intermittently.

I like to make the German comparsion mainly because i visted the country in the summer for a few days this summer and i have to say i am impressed. If they can do it so can we. Just in case you think otherwise, they also strike as well, which is acceptable or should be in a democracy.

Well manufacturing has been moved to places like China, India, Taiwan simply because of the fact that mass production is easy when your workforce are basically underpaid slaves who have no say.
Also the majority of industries that have gone under in this country have gone under because they were either obsolete or crap. Take the car industry for example, British cars were shit and unreliable and when the Japs got their act together British Leyland were fucked, and how did they respond, oo lets go on strike. I imagine the Germans strike only as a last resort and not when they want a holiday over christmas.

And I honestly don't think we could ever match the Germans anyway, they have a reputation for being organised and hard working whereas us Brits are a bunch of lazy dossers who live on handouts, and why is that, thanks to a shit labour government who tried to close the poverty gap by throwing tax money at teenage parent and immigrants while our old folk freeze and our people die on ungritted roads!!!!


Ow my head, arguing on a hangover = bad idea

 

[Wij]

Anyway, tierk brought the Tories into this. Before that everyone was just rightly commenting on how shit Labour are.

Having said that, ERM fiasco aside, Conservatives weren't that bad. Imagine what would have happened if Labour had stayed in in 79

 

[Embattle]

They are all shit quite honestly, it is up to you personally to suceed no matter what party is in power.

 

[Raven]

haha lol

BBC News - Motorists face new £15 'victims levy'

Not just motorists though.

 

[tierk]

The only reason i have mentioned the Tories is because of the misconception that they are some sort of wonder cure for the problems we are facing today. There is no difference between the two main parties - both shit - and a major change needs to be implemented in the way that the elections are conducted in the UK.

The current system takes no consideration of the 50-60% of the people that vote against the government that wins. That just cant be right. Force them to work together to give proper long term solutions to issues we face instead of the current setup which encourages successive governments to only think about the next election.

 

[Raven]

Anyone is better than Labour, Conservatives having the best chance to oust them is why they get my vote. If there was a party that represented my views then I would vote for them. They are all either far to extreme (BNP etc) or a one trick pony (Greens etc)

 

[MYstIC G]

Force them to work together to give proper long term solutions to issues we face instead of the current setup which encourages successive governments to only think about the next election.

No offence but fuck right off. One set of wankers doing next to fuck all is bad enough, two sets of wankers doing even less because they're now constantly bitching about what should be done... no thanks.

If you want to do something to encourage them to do the right thing, then make them accountable for their actions. If there was something along the lines of a corporate manslaughter law for the PM, do you think old Tony Blair would be anywhere but in the dock right now?

It's like expenses, they've all been fucking about for years but we can only make them pay back 4 years because that's the run of parliament. If you cheat on your taxes HMRC would rape you as far back as possible which as I understand it is the statute of limitation (which I think is 7 years from memory).

 

[tierk]

No offence but fuck right off. One set of wankers doing next to fuck all is bad enough, two sets of wankers doing even less because they're now constantly bitching about what should be done... no thanks.

If you want to do something to encourage them to do the right thing, then make them accountable for their actions. If there was something along the lines of a corporate manslaughter law for the PM, do you think old Tony Blair would be anywhere but in the dock right now?

It's like expenses, they've all been fucking about for years but we can only make them pay back 4 years because that's the run of parliament. If you cheat on your taxes HMRC would rape you as far back as possible which as I understand it is the statute of limitation (which I think is 7 years from memory).

TBH i think we are both saying the exact same thing here. The current system is broken, not working and needs to be changed completely. Everyone is completely fed up with hearing about on going scandals - expenses, sleaze etc - and the mismanagement of the countries finances.

It will not be any different after these elections, regardless of the results, Conservative winners or Labour winning by some miracle.

 

[MYstIC G]

Not quite. I have more faith in the Tory camp because I feel they still understand the concept of "you can't spend more than you earn". I may not be right but I'm certain that nobody in the Labour party understands that concept at all.

Essentially a "lesser of two evils" decision.

 

[Wij]

Not quite. I have more faith in the Tory camp because I feel they still understand the concept of "you can't spend more than you earn". I may not be right but I'm certain that nobody in the Labour party understands that concept at all.

No no no. You are endangering the recovery. If there's one thing we've learnt from the credit crunch it's that the only way to prevent the economy blowing up due to unsustainable levels of credit is to spend billions on useless shit paid for on credit. Gordon could not be wrong on this

 

[MYstIC G]

No no no. You are endangering the recovery. If there's one thing we've learnt from the credit crunch it's that the only way to prevent the economy blowing up due to unsustainable levels of credit is to spend billions on useless shit paid for on credit. Gordon could not be wrong on this

lol, have some rep

If you weren't being so sarcastic, maybe you'd be right though. Gordon probably knows where the bankruptcy forms for an entire country can be downloaded from. 3 years from now everyone will have let us off and we can splurge again!

 

[Bullitt]

Also to build on your question about how many of the FH peeps are flippers, let me ask how many of them are unemployed - long term or intermittently.
</snip>

Hail comrade!

I have been in the employ of production of good to greater benefit for Mother England for many year!

Dosvedanya!

 

[Chilly]

YouTube - Margaret Thatcher on Socialism

Tierk have a read of that, regarding your point about the rich getting richer.

 

[tierk]

Just read this and i t was something i mentioned earlier on thios thread thought it better then to open a whole new thread to discuss.....

Gordon Brown to ditch first-past-the-post vote system - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Finally goodbye first past the post

Discuss.

 

[MYstIC G]

Could be good, if they do that then link "voter apathy" to "complaining about shit" and fine people who bitch over and over and over accordingly, I'd be happy

 

[Chilly]

I think changing election law within six months of an election should probably be illegal. Same as last minute budgets filled with bribes.

He wouldnt be changing the law if it didnt increase the chance of a labour win, so on principle we cant let him do it. Change it before the end of the first year in power IMO - makes it far more likely not to be a con.

 

[rynnor]

I think changing election law within six months of an election should probably be illegal. Same as last minute budgets filled with bribes.

He wouldnt be changing the law if it didnt increase the chance of a labour win, so on principle we cant let him do it. Change it before the end of the first year in power IMO - makes it far more likely not to be a con.

I think its hilarious but are they really serious - sure they may not lose so badly but in the future they could never win as well again.