more typic forum ranting

[mustrum]

somone please explain why smite clerics are being nerfed when all hib casters arent. seriously. i dont think i even need to rant about the reasons for why they should be nerfed as its so blindingly obvious.

 

[Turamber]

Because clerics were never intended to be wizards-in-chain? And because Hib casters are very balanced ... in fact the old uber caster, the void eldritch, has been nerfed to hell and gone in previous patches. Most of them will probably respec to mana meaning even MORE pbaoe in keep defences. Oh joy...

Oops, if you look at the signature you'll see I'm a little biased on this issue... I'm only level 13, don't nerf me yet PLEASE!!

 

[mustrum]

Turamber, nerf em both;p
on a side note, clerics cant actually qc stun.
this might not seem like a big deal to somone unless they rvr with a caster
if a runie for example gets first shot on a cleric, which is highly possible because he can [quickcast] thats gonna stop the cleric from doing much stunning. as is any kind of instant which half of midgard has agree about the mezz timer nerf tbh, as this makes em slightly too versatile (like hib casters). If smite clerics get nerfed, hib casters should be for sure.
Give firewiz pyrospec insta dds ! you know it makes sense...

 

[Spamb0t]

i dont have any problem with hib caster baseline stun ....

 

[Dook_Pug]

LOL. Smite Clerics.

Chain, shields, stun, instas, PBAoE mezz, same nuking potential as a caster of a similar lvl, melee capabilities, buffs, heals.

There is only one way to go, NERF!

I don't agree with Hibs getting a baseline stun. It should be speccable but the upcoming nerf to Smiters is completely justifiable IMO.

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by Dook_Pug
Smite Clerics.

Chain, shields, stun, instas, PBAoE mezz, same nuking potential as a caster of a similar lvl, melee capabilities, buffs, heals.

Umm, you have heard of speccing I hope?

Limited amount of training points to allocate in spec lines... ring a bell?

A "proper" smite cleric can heal, but its a bit crappy, they can buff, but its a bit crappy too. In fact you could argue they do more damage to Alb forces by doing those Oh and a "proper" smite cleric will not get the super duper group insta either.

Shield's can't be specced; they can't train in their weapons either.

And the smite damage doesn't actually equate to a caster of a similar level. But that said, in my mind anyway, a healing class should primarily be about healing ... not about inflicting pain on the enemy. Then again I can see why people would quit playing a smiter rather than respec ... who wants to be a buff bot?!

Maybe Mythic could have left the smite damage cap alone, and instead made clerics wear cloth.... Just a thought.

 

[VidX]

Oh look, just got DD'd for 400 damage, pet just agro'd that silly caster lol

/face
QC stun
heat debuff
DD (for 230)

WTF?

DD (for 240)

err...?

DD
DD
DD

Target suddenly gains his HP back and runs towards you.

err...?

You cast MoC and start pbaoe'ing.

You are pbaoe mezzed.

err...?

Target runs away and starts casting more ouchy 400 damage DD's. 2 of these hit you, and because of the earlier 400, you die.

Erk!

Insta heals and pbaoe stun on a chain wearing caster with buff and self-buff capability...

Ouch!

Then again, to hit for 400 on me, they must have either low buffs or heals

The reason why smite clerics are being nerfed is because Albion tends to have a lack of actual healing clerics, so the nerf might push clerics towards the healing and buffs rather than the smite spec.

 

[mustrum]

vidx, when you stun somone if ur pbaoe specced, dont debuff em, pbaoe em
sounds to me kinda like you are talking about killing a tank with IP here. look at it from a wizards view.
nuke nuke qc nuke (tank aint dead yet, dosent even need ip you could argue qc root instead of qc nuke - this would help, if it stuck but then he goes ip, D'oh, cant root him for 90s, you are dead again :/) - smlammed - dead
in the case of a pbaoe specced hib caster, a stun and baseline buffs can kill enemy casters before the stun wears off easy.

oh yes, you nuke faster too

 

[Dook_Pug]

I love the way people try to use sarcasm to bring a point across. Pfft.

Shield isn't speccable, yet you have one. It has many uses even if it isn't speccable.

Buffs and Heals are still available to you, however crappy they may be.

You still have chain, all the other said abilities mentioned above AND uber nukes that do more than my nukes being a lvl 50 Runie.

Also, instead of respeccing to be a buffbot try speccing in Rejuv to HELP your realm ffs. All these posts by Smiters saying they don't wanna be buffbots, well then bloody well spec in rejuv and HEAL your fellow realm mates in RvR. Better than being a buffbot IMO.

 

[ulukin]

Is it just me or does the fact alone that you are comparing a caster with a <healer> prove without any reasonable doubt why the nerf is needed?

 

[old.Sko]

Umm just a thought.
Healer's pac line will be nerfed - all CC will be on same timer, mez/stun time degrading form center to edges on AOE versions, resists factoring in mez/stun times - yay
Cleric's smite line will be nerfed - mez moved to 5 minutes (ouch - no more smiter CC anywhere ;( ), smite DD nerfed.
Druid's nurture line will be ... buffed - better pet, better dot, insta-root.

Something wrong in this picture, eh ?

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by Dook_Pug
You still have chain, all the other said abilities mentioned above AND uber nukes that do more than my nukes being a lvl 50 Runie.

Also, instead of respeccing to be a buffbot try speccing in Rejuv to HELP your realm ffs. All these posts by Smiters saying they don't wanna be buffbots, well then bloody well spec in rejuv and HEAL your fellow realm mates in RvR. Better than being a buffbot IMO.

Well I don't play a cleric, so I'm taking a fairly unbiased line on this.

Doubt whether anyone would choose to play a class that can do nothing but heal and buff ... everyone wants to inflict some damage on the enemy. Even my defensive paladin is only really as good as the group as he is in.

People who chose to play smite clerics made a valid choice on the information that Mythic presented to them at the time. They specced to play their character that way and, invariably, had a bloody hard job levelling that character -- as it doesn't fit into the average groups conception of what a cleric should do in PvE.

They wanted to play a damage dealer ... now they're told they have to play a healing buff bot. Rather than respec they should be allowed to create a completely new level 50 from scratch. DAOC is hardly bringing in new players these days, we would do better to keep the ones we have rather than forcing them out through nerfs.

As for the smite cleric doing more damage than your runie ... lets have some figures please, really doubt whether that is the case.

 

[Dook_Pug]

On average with my RC DD (admittedly it's baseline) I do between 300-400 damage per nuke. In return I get smited for 400+ damage without fail by the top smiters. Combined with stun, mezz, PBAoE mezz etc this is deadly and far too overpowered.

 

[Bodzilla]

Vidx nukes 2x faster then smite clerics tho uke:

 

[Krillin.]

Interesting points and as a smite cleric i can see in some cases why we are being nerfed and agree in some respects. Theres only 2 issues i have and i do think these ones are fair.

1) If you are going to totally change a chars spec lines like smite then at least give the player an extra respec line to allow them to change to a more approachable template. This is in regards to the last smite DD being moved from smite 48 to smite 43. Wasted points and no respec to sort out with such a huge change.

So give smite clerics an extra respec. Only fair after you change their spec lines so much.

2) PBAOE Mezz - Putting it on a 3 minute timer is odd. Considering it goes hand in hand with the sorcerer nerf it really doesn't help albion at all. So please return our mez back to the original. Only lasts 30 seconds and can be used at extreme close range.

Thats me out and i hope you agree what i see wrong with the smite nerf is not totally unfair.

 

[old.Mug]

Originally posted by old.Sko
Umm just a thought.
Healer's pac line will be nerfed - all CC will be on same timer, mez/stun time degrading form center to edges on AOE versions, resists factoring in mez/stun times - yay
Cleric's smite line will be nerfed - mez moved to 5 minutes (ouch - no more smiter CC anywhere ;( ), smite DD nerfed.
Druid's nurture line will be ... buffed - better pet, better dot, insta-root.

Something wrong in this picture, eh ?

Yeah Insta-root, nerf dem druids

Roots are the worst kind of CC, and because almost all the classes in DaoC have some sort of ranged attack (even if it is just a pulling device) then they can do some dmg to interupt a druid.

The pet is not going to make a big difference. The lvl32 pet for a lvl50 Druid is still going to be lvl37, which is borderline grey/green, and the druid being the main buffer in the realm, he/she will probably have no buffs left for the pet to be of any use.

Better DoT, this applies for shamans aswell y'know. And do some research into how much dmg the current DoT is doing. Mine normally starts at 35 then drops every tick (34, 33, 32 etc). Also on top of that druid and shaman Dots will now have a resistance added ( Body i beleive ).

But saying all this most clerics still love to smite (especially when im mezzed, cheers!), albeit for not very much. Dont think i have ever been hit for 400, 250-300 is the max.

 

[old.windforce]

Originally posted by Dook_Pug
LOL. Smite Clerics.

Chain, shields, stun, instas, PBAoE mezz, same nuking potential as a caster of a similar lvl, melee capabilities, buffs, heals.

There is only one way to go, NERF!

I don't agree with Hibs getting a baseline stun. It should be speccable but the upcoming nerf to Smiters is completely justifiable IMO.

ever played one?

 

[cabo1]

I have never played a smite cleric but I would say this, as an SB critblade I would fight any class in the game before I would fight a smiter. Even moose-boys and dragonfang infils.

I dont think I have ever won a fight against a even con cleric. Ho hum

 

[j000 d000d]

I've always felt sorry for mid/alb casters when i cast a stun.

But not for Alb anymore, after what they did to us at Legion today

I'm stun-a-holic on albs now

 

[Dook_Pug]

Originally posted by old.windforce


ever played one?

Yep.

 

[Nemesis Warlock]

The Cleric was never intended to be a damage dealer... and everyone who played him cuz of this reason hasnt got the point.

Play a mage...

But oh.. the mage can only deal dam... he cant dam, heal AND stun and cant wear chain... hm.. reason why u clever ppl thought ud take a cleric ? Well the Cleric has always been a healer since Pool of Radiance.....

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by cabo1
I have never played a smite cleric but I would say this, as an SB critblade I would fight any class in the game before I would fight a smiter. Even moose-boys and dragonfang infils.

I dont think I have ever won a fight against a even con cleric. Ho hum

Add dr00d and healer with quick enough reflexes to the list.

PS. What's level of your shammie ?

 

[old.Patrick-S]

lol anyone who thinks smite clerics shouldnt be nerfed is one ... its impossible to kill one if they are paying attention.. i PA,stun hit them couple of times they are on low life poisoned they pbaoe mezz then have a chance to rest/heal up before stunning me and smiteing me to death before i can even draw my weps again (unless ive had my con buffed up) if they were a caster even and had it id have a chance to kill them anyway due to lower hp and worse armour... and they get shields and weps not speccable sure but druids cant spec in them either... and they just heal, dot, buff, use there pets and i dont get why people made clerics if they dont want to heal or buff...

 

[old.Hellskor]

Originally posted by old.Patrick-S
... and i dont get why people made clerics if they dont want to heal or buff...

Cleric a.k.a. Lightning-Battle-Wizard-Tank-Hybrid

Why play a vulnerable Caster class if you can get a close-to-immortal Caster ?

 

[old.Vae]

Originally posted by Dook_Pug
On average with my RC DD (admittedly it's baseline) I do between 300-400 damage per nuke. In return I get smited for 400+ damage without fail by the top smiters. Combined with stun, mezz, PBAoE mezz etc this is deadly and far too overpowered.

Please take account of all the facts here:

Smite from the 48 spec smite spell might do 400+ damage as you quote BUT it's on a shorter range than casters DD's (as is the stun which is even shorter range) and has a 4.0sec casting time. So any caster will outrange and outcast you. Also they will do the same level damage with their spec DD's.

Also casters have the advantage of bolts, the advantage of crits on their spell casting and the advantage of quickcast. All of this helps balance out the smite clerics other abilities.

In addition smite is on the spirit resistance table which has to be one of the highest attained resistances. I've encounteres mids with 50% spirit resist before and that sure reduces my smite hurt especially since I use the lvl 35 spec smite

[Edit] Let's not forget the clerics lot smaller mana pool and the stupidly high power usage of all their spells as well as the lack of focus items as well.

Now maybe a small nerf *might* have been justified but not to the extent that it has been implemented. Evidence is now trickling in fro the american servers and someone on the IGN boards did a survey of the number of clerics being played (way down) and discovered that half the lvl 40+ clerics were strangely standing around doing nothing at emain PK - I wonder why....

Also a lot of the rest were only still playing because they felt they had a responsibility to their guilds to keep at least one or two high level clerics in the game!

 

[old.Lianuchta]

Also casters have the advantage of bolts

ROFL, you ever tried to bolt a cleric/druid/healer or anything else carrying a shield?

You cast Bolt
Cleric partially blocks bolt
You do 220 (-80dmg)....

And that is a 4sec cast spell on a 20sec timer. Anyway the Void baseline DD is 3.x second cast time as well, so I don't see why Clerics are whining about their 4 second cast time.

The main thing with clerics is that they're virtually unkillable 1-on-1. Tanks will get mezzed, smited, 2 instas used on etc, Assasins will suffer similarly, Casters will just get mezzed and smited. Druids and Healers are hard to kill too, but at least they don't get to smite you into smithereens.

 

[old.Hellskor]

Originally posted by old.Vae

In addition smite is on the spirit resistance table which has to be one of the highest attained resistances. I've encounteres mids with 50% spirit resist before and that sure reduces my smite hurt especially since I use the lvl 35 spec smite

*cough* Mids with 50% Spirit Resist ?
Pretty please, someone post what items you get that kind of resists with.
Dragonwolf Cloak : 10%
Skald Song : 20% (as if anyone would ever have it active)
Where do the other 20% come from ?
Pretty please, someone post what items you use for that.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.Lianuchta

And that is a 4sec cast spell on a 20sec timer. Anyway the Void baseline DD is 3.x second cast time as well, so I don't see why Clerics are whining about their 4 second cast time.

3.0s actually, that's 25% faster.
If you specced void, don't expect to be able to nuke. If you wanted nukes you should have specced light. Light elds nuke plenty hard enough and with 2.8s base cast time too... I got hit 4 times for a total of 1650 damage by a light eldritch with 25% cold resist within stun time. Hib casters cannot complain about damage. Not mythic's fault you gimped yourself.

 

[old.Sko]

Nerf thanes !

You know what, they are wearing _CHAIN_, they can spec _WEAPONS_ and can have INSTA-HEAL. They get PBAOE, and we all know how powerful PBAOE is ! Also, they get insta-dd, single target DD and AOE DD. My god, they can nuke as hard as cloth wearing caster ! Yesterday i was nuked by thane for 130 points of damage and a green con luri did exactly same amount. Notice - thane nuked me just like most ubah hibernian caster !
Nerf to the weapon swinging, chain-wearing, insta-self-healing lighting spec wizards of midgard

PS. Please continue with proper Nerf Cabalists post.

 

[old.Vae]

Originally posted by old.Hellskor


*cough* Mids with 50% Spirit Resist ?
Pretty please, someone post what items you get that kind of resists with.
Dragonwolf Cloak : 10%
Skald Song : 20% (as if anyone would ever have it active)
Where do the other 20% come from ?
Pretty please, someone post what items you use for that.

Not knowing Midgard I can't tell you what items give that but I do know that I smited one mid in emain for 147 (-151) damage. I remember it specifically because I'd never hit for that low before. Usually I make 200 damage at least! But never more than 300ish unless it's an undead mob.

Hmmm 300 damage smite is my normal amount with no resists - This is using the 35 spec smite spell and having 50 smite with items.