more Taliban stuff

[old.ignus]

Ok I'm sure we all know my thoughts and feelings on the war but this is something different.
I'm sure you've all see it on the news but there are men and teenagers who claim to be british citizens buggering off to join the Taliban in their "holy war". Isn't that an act of treason? still punishable by death in this country. As most of them claim that they will fight the British soldiers. Then they expect to be let back into this country if they survive, so that they can continue being "British" citizens. What a load of bollocks, I say if they want to fight for the taliban they should live and die under the taliban.

*Cue abuse directed at ignus for his ignorant comments*

 

[Ch3tan]

Maybe they want to help their families or friends that are there?

Maybe they belive that its a holy war?

Maybe they are in the right and the UK is in the wrong for fighting a war they really shouldnt be?

guess we will never know, if they want to be maryters let them.

 

[Summo]

Originally posted by ignus
if they want to fight for the taliban they should live and die under the taliban.

I think that's the idea.

Religious wars, eh? Attracts all sorts.

 

[old.ignus]

I'm talking about the so called british citizens who's families live in this country, I heard one actually said that your bretheren (I can't spell that word this late at night) are more important to you than your countrymen.

I don't object to their beliefs, I object to the fact that they consider themselves British and want to come back to this country after the war. if you consider yourself a British citizen then you should fight for your country not for a bunch of terrorists that are fighting against Britain.

As for why we're in this war, well I reckon its so we can say to the Americans that we stuck up for you, and also to stop them from gloating about the fact that they "saved our asses" in world war 2. Blair is such a brown nose.

 

[Summo]

Heh heh. I sincerely hope that's not why we're fighting this war. I thought it was to stop the threat of global terrorism from the world's current 'most evil man eva'. Maybe I'm just falling for the capitalist propaganda.

The point is that this isn't (in theory) a war between countries. For the first time, we've declared war against a small group of people who just happen to be located in a certain country. Unfortunately this small group see it as a religious war and consequently some people from all nations see it that way too, and go to fight for their beliefs. Who can blame them for feeling more attached to those who share their beliefs than those who just happen to live on the same patch of land.

Fair play to them, I suppose. In these days of equal rights I doubt anyone will be brought before a British war crimes commission accused of treason while the European Court of Human Rights counters with 'freedom of association, freedom of religion, naught Britain' and so on.

I'm undecided about this issue and I will probably always remain that way, being a liberalist freedom lover.

Still, it's late. I'm off to enjoy my Western capitalist duvet.

 

[old.ignus]

Equal rights is the first step towards communism, thats why this minimum wage thing is scaring me. FFS we live in a world where a thief can sue for injuring himself whilest breaking and entering, next we'll have rapists sueing their victims for giving them sexually transmitted diseases.
These people should not be allowed back into this country if they are fighting against it. Maybe the law won't do them justice but I'm sure the groups of vigilantes out there will.

Edit* Not saying that this is what should happen, rather than what will happen.

 

[Wij]

Actually it is a war against a country really. The Taliban were very aware of what Bin Laden was planning and gave him all the support he could ask for. Since they rule Afghanistan it is a war against Afganistan. After all, not everyone in Germany loved Hitler but it was a war against Germany.

Just semantics I suppose. Back to rude and funny threads for me. It's too early to think

 

[WPKenny]

Someone in the Metro today suggested that we should put all the planes that are standing idle to good use and ship all the brits who think it's a good thing to join the Taliban over to Afganistan. And while we're at it we should collect their passports from them, one by one.
Although that prolly wouldn't work as they'd end up coming back in as refugees and we'd put them up in four star hotels etc etc.

Blair...we loves ya!

 

[old.roobus]

Take their passports then shoot them in the head and save our soldiers the trouble.

Then toss ship their families over to Afghanistan into the care of the Taliban government, and see how much they enjoy living there.

They are traitors by definition, and should be treated as such.

 

[old.=DI=Penry]

It seems a shame to me, that Bush is hardly likely to survive to defend himself, in the War Crimes Tribunal being brought against him following the atrocities of the last month of bombing. (War Crimes Tribunals are only held AFTER the War ends. This War, without boundaries will outlast the lot of us!)

I used to think this was a holy war, I know the Taliban and innocent Afghan citizens see it that way (some UK Muslims do too). But its obviously not, as Bush (although proclaiming himself a Christian) is hardly acting in a Christian manner, Carpet Bombing whole villages just because they are currently controlled by a group who ARE willing to discuss handing over that ‘Bin Laden’ fellow, but he isn’t willing to speak with them. Its hardly a Christian way of doing things. (what did Blair say, following the recent IRA disarmament breakthrough. Quote: ‘… the only aims that ever should, or indeed really ever can, succeed are those pursued by democratic and peaceful debate.’ )

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4284179,00.html

Think back to the Pinochet extradition with Spain, ‘Britain’ kept him months, and wouldn’t hand him over till evidence of his guilt was given. If Spain had said, we want him ‘Dead or Alive’, £3,000,000 reward on his head, hand him over now or we bomb the UK, no negotiation. Would the UK have handed him over without question? Without seeing evidence? Like hell!


As for British based supporters of the 700+ years running ‘JIHAD’, at least they are wishing to fight on the front lines, to DEFEND fellow Muslims. If the threat of being tried for ‘Treason’ hangs over every British Muslim who wishes to go over and help what THEY see as a Muslim country engaged in THE ‘Holy War’, if that stops them leaving the country what do they then do? Sit back and watch their fellow Muslims being annihilated? (you have to try and put yourself in their shoes). These folks aren’t terrorists, just people who wish to support their faith, willing to risk their lives (honourably) on the front lines of a battlefield, knowing full well, that in all likely-hood, once there, they’ll probably not even see an enemy to fight, but just be blattered by bombs dropping in. (You should be more concerned with extremists Muslims in the UK (if there are any)supporting THE 'JIHAD' who DONT want to go to ‘the battlezone’, rather than those who do want to!)


Britains involvement in helping the USA, is just that. Helping the USA (at times like these they need all the help they can get). Whatever their reasons for bombing Afghanistan, the Oil Pipeline plan, America wanting to remove the mess of a regime it helped into power, or whatever other reasons (terrorism is just the easiest acceptable excuse/reason), as far as stopping terrorism is concerned, any bombing campaign WILL have the opposite effect!

Whether its wrong or right for the UK to bomb Afghanistan, or whichever countries this is going to spread to, isn’t the issue. The USA would continue without our backing, and UK-USA ties are strong enough to make the UK a target of hatred towards America whether we help the campaign or not! To most of the eastern world Britain is just USA’s 51 state !

 

[old.Kez]

Bush is lame; He's yet to stop telling people that the war is being fought as "good against evil" - thick fucking leper.

 

[Ch3tan]

Was going to write a big rant with my thoughts on this "war", but I found this on the bbc website.

Its under a caption about b52 bombers, they are being used to carpet bomb Afghan troops.

B-52s were used in the same role in Vietnam

Yeah and Vietnam went really well didnt it.

 

[Wij]

Air power worked quite well in Kosovo. Milosovic is facing a War Crimes tribunal now. (Thank you The Sun )

Never forget who started this war. Bin Laden and the Taliban started it by killing thousands of civillians. That's inexcusable. They aren't people who can be negotiated with, they aren't going to stop and they aren't nice at all. Fuck them, I hope they all get killed.

As for the rest of the Afghan population I hope they get some help when the war is over although Bin Laden is fuckin loaded and I don't see him helping. Twat.

There, I've said my piece now

 

[old.[NC]Sturty]

Ignus, you're a fool.

 

[old.ignus]

Originally posted by [NC]Sturty
Ignus, you're a fool.

Nice to see you've thought about this argument sturty. Anyway as Obi Wan said, "who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool that follows him?" A lot of people seem to agreeing with my original statement, some are even taking it further.
So I maybe a fool, but you'll always be an idiot

 

[old.D R E ad]

Sorry, this may sound harsh, but I say fuck 'em. Fucking hypocrites, why do they live here in the UK anyway if they support a regime that crushes peoples freedom, where listening to music is band, flying a kite is illigal, women as treated like shit, people have limbs removed for petty crimes commited because they are starving and the oh so holy Taliban make millions from puducing much of the worlds heroin. I hope they get bombed the moment they step off the plane. People like that don't deserve to live in this country. Good riddence I say. I doubt some taxi driver from Manchester would be much of a threat to the British/American commandos anyway. They must be thick as shit, and don't give me any of that crap about martyrdom, this is not martyrdom in the true sense of word. The Taliban like to make up there own versions of the Islamic reglious rules to suit there own needs and the poor uneducated people of Afganistan don't know any better. Thats why I find it so mad that people from this country are willing to fight for the Taliban, I could understand if they were of to fight for the Northan Alliance.

 

[throdgrain]

indeed m8.fuck em all.

 

[old.D R E ad]

Originally posted by SomeGuy
The point is that this isn't (in theory) a war between countries.

Yes it mate. The Taliban are effectively the government of Afganistan. If that not a war I don't know what is.

 

[Summo]

Have a look at the news, me ol' mucka. We're not at war with Afghanistan.

 

[old.ignus]

Originally posted by SomeGuy
Have a look at the news, me ol' mucka. We're not at war with Afghanistan.

its true, but thats what's wrong with the world today, the media and student hippies (uh oh I'm going all ignorant pro war again) but what I mean is the media have reporters in Afganistan actually talking to the taliban, if that would have happened in Germany back in WW2 they would have been shot as spies. Technically we were at war with the Nazis and not Germany as there were many inocent civilvians in Germany who became victims of the bombing, but did anybody complain then? Ask your grandparents and they'd probably have said all Germans are the same.
Back in WW1 soldiers were shot by their own side for deserting their posts, imagine what would have happened to them if they'd defected, and gone over to the German's side.

 

[Summo]

You're wrong lad. Heard Chamberlain's famous speech? "This country is at war with Germany."

Still, I'm off. nm

 

[throdgrain]

chamberlain's most INfamous speech."peace in our time..."
it's the sign of a different world i guess ,when people of all nationalities/religions are spread all of the world.in ww2,when my mum and dad were kids,it was easy to say "all germans are scum"or whatever,because effectivly they WERE! not in reality obviously,im sure there were some not infected by nazism etc,however as there werent any living next door it was irrelevant.they were on the other side of the channel sending bombs over.its not like that now,i live in an area populated by like 40%asian people,some moslem some hindu .theres a mosque just up the road.so its easier to see.some are good some are bad.same as british people no doubt.
it doesnt matter what opinion you had about it in 1940 ,if the germans invaded like as not your female relatives were going get raped/whatever,and you were gonna get shot if you didnt like it.same thing happened to the inhabitants of berlin at the end of the war...
well .opinions aside,if a "moslem invasion" somehow happened here,the same thing would be more or less true.having a sympathetic opinion would count for fuck all lads,it'd still be "grow a beard or die" lol (a fucking long beard too...)

 

[mankatron2001]

on a slightly related note, did anyone hear the interview with Abdul Hakh (forgive spelling) on Jimmy Young's show on Radio2 yesterday? Basically put, he's a islamic fundamentalist who fully supports the taliban and the act of terrorism commited by Bin Laden...

i'll see if there's a transcript or anything on the bbc site.

oh, and hi



-AbFab-mank!

 

[Summo]

Hello there. Think this is the first new poster who's promised Radio 2 transcripts.

Makes a change from the usual 'j00s 4ll cunt0rs!!12324 I ro><!!21'

 

[mankatron2001]

I'm not really a new poster, I did have another account which i used a bit awhile ago, but decided rather than siting here and scratching my head trying to remember the password for it, i'd sign up for a new account. lazy, aren't i? :]

on the subject of radio2... it r0x0rs!!!!1"

 

[Stazbumpa]

My tuppence is to agree with much of what has already been said. The arseholes that pretend they are Muslims are fucking hypocrites. They sit in Britain and spout about how they want to replace the government (crap as it is) with an Islamic one. They use this countries freedoms to try and remove those same freedoms.

This is fucking bullshit. If they hate this country so much then fuck off and go somewhere where they feel at home. Like to see them wearing their Armani T-shirts and driving BMW 3 Series in Afghanistan. Sorry about the generalism, but they want to have the freedoms that this country offers, enjoy (quite rightly) a law system that prevents abuse against them on skin colour and religious ground and yet they hate this country with a passion and also advertise this fact.
How long would a white englishman last in Pakistan on a street corner yelling that the government was shit and needed replacing with a Christian one?

The real kicker is that our Government has allowed this for years.

Bottom line, they want us to die and our society to die. So I want them to die instead, and so they should. The war is not nice, but war isn't. American / UK foreign policy in the middle east may be crap sometimes, but what would the middle east be like without the aid from the west and the custom for its oil production.

Fucked.

Before anyone shouts about the human rights abuses wrought by USA and Britain in this war, remember that Muslim countries make up most of the worlds worst human rights abuser list, and thats to their own people.

 

[Summo]

Jesus Christ, Staz! What a load of extremist nonsense. You're generalisng all muslims as fanatical terrorists.

I can't even be arsed to type.

 

[old.D R E ad]

Originally posted by SomeGuy
Have a look at the news, me ol' mucka. We're not at war with Afghanistan.

Aye, they are saying that. But it's spin. They want to keep up public support and wording thing like that is one way they do it. The Taliban are the Afgan government. We are attacking them, thier army and thier country. Thats a war I'm afraid, even if they tell us otherwise.

But they should never had called it a war. They have given that twat Bin Laden exactly the status he wanted. The IRA have tried to justify thier actions for years by saying they are at war with the British government. The government have, quite rightly so, always said that its not a war, they are criminals commiting criminal acts and will be prosecuted as criminals. Calling it a war just gives Bin Laden an excuse to carry out futher attacks. Now he can call such attacts acts of war, even self defence.

 

[throdgrain]

i dont think staz meant all moslems someguy.just the fanatical ones y'know?but he is right in many ways i think.like i said earlier u can have what opinions u want,wont help when they got u growing one o dem laaaaaang beards lol

 

[Stazbumpa]

I did'nt say all Muslims, in fact my second sentence was

Originally posted by stazbumpa
The arseholes that pretend they are Muslims are fucking hypocrites.

You see, we have a serious problem in that there are "fundamentalists". We have them in all forms of religion and they basically recreate god in their own image to suit their own needs and goals.
We as human beings always feel the need to explain ourselves and also to use those same explanations as excuses for the evils that we perpetrate. Hence Mr Bin Laden wants to destroy western society because he hates it for reason A, B and C. But because he is Moslem, and killing people willy nilly isn't really what God is about, he then re-interprets God's plan for life on earth (the fundamentalist part) to include his own warped ideas and then uses that as an excuse to justify his actions.

See what I'm getting at??

They sit in Britain and spout about how they want to replace the government (crap as it is) with an Islamic one. They use this countries freedoms to try and remove those same freedoms.

I stand by that statement. They're on TV everyday shouting about it. Although the real Moslems want nothing to do with these guys.
That was on TV too.

Sorry about the generalism, but they want to have the freedoms that this country offers, enjoy (quite rightly) a law system that prevents abuse against them on skin colour and religious grounds and yet they hate this country with a passion and also advertise this fact.
How long would a white englishman last in Pakistan on a street corner yelling that the government was shit and needed replacing with a Christian one?

The real kicker is that our Government has allowed this for years.

I stand by that too. These people want to live in England and enjoy its rights and privelidges, but in the same breathe they seek to destroy its fabric and replace it with one of their own. They do not practice what they preach.
Also, if they hate this country, or any western country, then why go and live in it??
I hate Iraq, but I don't go and fucking live there and try to rally support for otherthrowing the Iraqi Government do I?
How long do you think I would survive?

American / UK foreign policy in the middle east may be crap sometimes, but what would the middle east be like without the aid from the west and the custom for its oil production.

Fucked.

We all know that western Governments are/can be pretty nasty to other countries, but just look at the evidence.
Afghanistan effectively sealed its fate with the Taliban taking charge. True, the west had a hand in it, but I doubt the Taliban revealed its true nature to us before they got into power. The main aim back then was to eradicate the commies and bring stability to the country. The crime the west commited was to look the other way when the Taliban reverted Afghan civilisation back to the 12th Century (but with machine guns).
How the hell can a society like that survive without handouts from richer countries?

Christ, even Egypt would be fucked without foreign aid and, more importantly, tourism. The Saudi's would'nt be as rich as they are unless the west bought the oil they churn out, as their Muslim neighbours either want to kill them for the oil or can't afford as much as we can anyway.

Before anyone shouts about the human rights abuses wrought by USA and Britain in this war, remember that Muslim countries make up most of the worlds worst human rights abuser list, and thats to their own people.

They are the worst violators, check it out with Amnesty or something. Saddam Hussein gassed his own people. The Taliban lop off limbs coz some starving guy stole a loaf of bread to feed his family, and they beat fuck out of women for daring to show their faces in public. The list goes on and nobody does anything about it because its amongst their own people.

But they crossed borders this time and fucked with the worlds most powerful nation. Not a clever thing to do, so now they pay the price. The only thing these guys respect is force, so you have to walk tall and carry a bigger stick than they do.
Thats the only way to beat them.

I'm sorry if my views came across as racist or something, that was not the intention. But the simple truths that I have highlighted in this rant are staring us all in the face and only a fool ignores them.

I hope I've cleared up any ambiguities in my original post.