V
VodkaFairy
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- Thread starter
- #31
It's just fucking ridiculess to dual wield a two handed weapon, I really wouldn't like to get a PA from an infil with 50 thrust / 50 cs from that :scared:
J
Jergiot
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- Thread starter
- #32
u said it... the speed.
J
Jergiot
Guest
- Thread starter
- #33
u know, the styles in CS line, instead of just spamming doublefrost.
O
old.Emma
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- Thread starter
- #34
You`ll more than likely find the reason 80% of the good SB`s quit or moved to a different realm is mainly due to the seriously stupid ammount of infils in emain on a regular basis. As the screenshot above shows that shit happens daily. Doubt it would be "that" much of a problem on excal due to its population anyway but for a server that barely breaks 1.5k people on a good day its a major problem.
Yes SB`s need serious help without str relics we have no choice but to group/zerg because we cant kill shit solo (reads other assassins).
I do look forward to the day i can log my SB on again and go enjoy it like i did pre-1.51 where no f**kups from mythic overpowered the class. But until that days comes i`ll be happily RvRing with my Enchanter.
K
K0nah
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- Thread starter
- #35
mids still trying to justify 150-200% style bonus dmg i see 
fun while it lasted, spec some CS and move on, kthx
fun while it lasted, spec some CS and move on, kthx
N
Negura
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- Thread starter
- #36
"mids still trying to justify 150-200% style bonus dmg i see
fun while it lasted, spec some CS and move on, kthx"
Get a clue, kthx:
Why LA change will totally ruin shadowblade class:
"
[....]
The problem is that they chose the condition that favors them greatly because it shows their base damage being the same. If you assume they don't always hit, or only hit half the time, or any less then 100% (which is quite obviously more likely) then there exists a large disparity between LA and CD/DW, skewed in FAVOR of CD/DW. This means the larger growth rates in LA are actually required to make up lost damage.
Another factor is weaponskill. The higher your weaponskill (which is derived from weapon spec, stats, and modified by debuffs) the less you miss. In other words, you're landing more hits so you're doing more damage.
Infiltrators have no problem whatsoever getting their weaponspecs to 50. If you scan live level 50 Infiltrator accounts there is no doubt in my mind the vast majority will all have 50 in Thrust or Slash. That's before Item and Realm Rank bonuses are applied.
Nightshades will claim they don't, but they too have the ability to get to 50 weapon spec with little to no sacrafice. They can autotrain stealth to 48 and then spend spec points as so:
RR5 Nightshade, level 50
50+11+4 Weapon
39+11+4 Critical Strike
12+11+4 Celtic Dual
35+11+4 Stealth
33+11+4 Envenom
Why is this possible? Why can a Nightshade, with the same amount of spec points as a Shadowblade, hit 50 Weapon Spec with no sacrafices?
Because Nightshades, unlike Shadowblades are not _required_ to spec in their offhand skill. So a Nightshade will have more Weaponskill with no trade offs. In addition to that they'll have an Insta-DD which is useful for tagging runners or extra damage once their endurance runs out. They have access to Wild Arcana and Avoid Pain. So why play a Shadowblade when you can have that or the 2.5 Spec points of an Infiltrator?
A Shadowblade that autos stealth to 48 will end up with this type of build:
RR5 Shadowblade, level 50
39+11+4 Weapon
39+11+4 Left Axe
34+11+4 Critical Strike
34+11+4 Stealth
33+11+4 Envenom
The Shadowblade will have much less weapon skill then the Nightshade or Infiltrator. And they have no choice but to spec slash damage, which is 100% Str based. That means in any fight with another assassin, a Shadowblade will have less weaponskill to begin with, and they will be subject to STR/CON debuffs that incapacitate their weaponskill. Meanwhile, Infs/NS do have the ability to choose Pierce/Thrust damage, and if so desired can only have 50% effect from the debuff (as dex weapons are 50% STR/50% DEX based).
If the Shadowblade wants to have higher CS (39 or 44) They are going to have to end up gimping either their Weapon spec or Left Axe.
And if a Shadowblade wants to be a Critblade (so they can have 50 weapon spec) that already puts them at a huge disadvantage towards any other stealther. Why?
Mid 2-H Damage=115% of a 1-hander
CD/DW Damage=100% Main hand + 25% Offhand.
And that's at a spec of *1* in CD/DW! Inf/NS could totally ignore CD/DW and still end up doing 10% more damage then a Critblade.
In summary, I do not think the LA changes are as cut and dry as Wyrd's and Waterman's analysis seem to indicate. Assassin balance is much more complicated then it would appear, and there are other balancing factors. If these LA changes go through, Shadowblades will be at great disadvantage towards any other stealther. And against casters, their primary prey. Because they will not be able to get Critical Strike up as high as any other realm's assassin. The following issues need to be addressed:
1. Endurance costs of Left Axe styles. LA styles are known for being endurance hogs (to the point of only being able to execute 4-5 styles sometimes). If LA damage is lowered, revisiting LA endurance consumption will become mandatory.
2. No access to thrust damage weapons, yet Dex is a SB's primary stat. Dex is also beneficial to raise evade chances, but if you're a thruster/piercer you also gain weaponskill. A double advantage SBs do not have. An alternate would be to change SB sword/axes to use 75% STR, 25% DEX instead of 100% STR. Or STR could be made the primary stat.
3. No access to dex/qui debuff in the envenom line. SBs are unable to debuff Inf or NS equally because they only take 50% of a hit to their weaponskill. Alternately, create a dex/con envenom. As using a dex/qui debuff would still not be as hard-hitting as a str/con debuff is to a SB.
4. No good RA's. Vanish is bugged. Shadowrun is crap. The single best assassin RA's remaining other then the cookie cutters (MOP, DR, etc) are Wild Arcana and Avoid Pain. It's time to revisit realm abilities.
5. No single evade-stun style available, only an evade chain which after 1.62 will do less damage then the Hamstring chain.
6. Single line respec does not help someone who has gone 44/44. They respec LA down to practically nothing (20ish), have gimped LA, and still cannot raise CS enough. There need to be at least 2 single line respecs, but it would be easier to give a full respec.
7. Furthermore none of this addresses the fact players have spent dozens of hours farming cash to purchase spellcrafted suits of equipment that cost between 3 and 10 plat, depending on your connections and quality of equipment you had crafted. Even if they were given a full respec, what do they do with all their now useless armor that doesn't fit their new spec? I don't know how Mythic would do it, but it would be nice to allow LAers to wipe the spellcrafting off their armor so they won't have to get the pieces all re-made and expensive ablatives re-applied. "
Written in 1.62 by some TL.
fun while it lasted, spec some CS and move on, kthx"
Get a clue, kthx:
Why LA change will totally ruin shadowblade class:
"
[....]
The problem is that they chose the condition that favors them greatly because it shows their base damage being the same. If you assume they don't always hit, or only hit half the time, or any less then 100% (which is quite obviously more likely) then there exists a large disparity between LA and CD/DW, skewed in FAVOR of CD/DW. This means the larger growth rates in LA are actually required to make up lost damage.
Another factor is weaponskill. The higher your weaponskill (which is derived from weapon spec, stats, and modified by debuffs) the less you miss. In other words, you're landing more hits so you're doing more damage.
Infiltrators have no problem whatsoever getting their weaponspecs to 50. If you scan live level 50 Infiltrator accounts there is no doubt in my mind the vast majority will all have 50 in Thrust or Slash. That's before Item and Realm Rank bonuses are applied.
Nightshades will claim they don't, but they too have the ability to get to 50 weapon spec with little to no sacrafice. They can autotrain stealth to 48 and then spend spec points as so:
RR5 Nightshade, level 50
50+11+4 Weapon
39+11+4 Critical Strike
12+11+4 Celtic Dual
35+11+4 Stealth
33+11+4 Envenom
Why is this possible? Why can a Nightshade, with the same amount of spec points as a Shadowblade, hit 50 Weapon Spec with no sacrafices?
Because Nightshades, unlike Shadowblades are not _required_ to spec in their offhand skill. So a Nightshade will have more Weaponskill with no trade offs. In addition to that they'll have an Insta-DD which is useful for tagging runners or extra damage once their endurance runs out. They have access to Wild Arcana and Avoid Pain. So why play a Shadowblade when you can have that or the 2.5 Spec points of an Infiltrator?
A Shadowblade that autos stealth to 48 will end up with this type of build:
RR5 Shadowblade, level 50
39+11+4 Weapon
39+11+4 Left Axe
34+11+4 Critical Strike
34+11+4 Stealth
33+11+4 Envenom
The Shadowblade will have much less weapon skill then the Nightshade or Infiltrator. And they have no choice but to spec slash damage, which is 100% Str based. That means in any fight with another assassin, a Shadowblade will have less weaponskill to begin with, and they will be subject to STR/CON debuffs that incapacitate their weaponskill. Meanwhile, Infs/NS do have the ability to choose Pierce/Thrust damage, and if so desired can only have 50% effect from the debuff (as dex weapons are 50% STR/50% DEX based).
If the Shadowblade wants to have higher CS (39 or 44) They are going to have to end up gimping either their Weapon spec or Left Axe.
And if a Shadowblade wants to be a Critblade (so they can have 50 weapon spec) that already puts them at a huge disadvantage towards any other stealther. Why?
Mid 2-H Damage=115% of a 1-hander
CD/DW Damage=100% Main hand + 25% Offhand.
And that's at a spec of *1* in CD/DW! Inf/NS could totally ignore CD/DW and still end up doing 10% more damage then a Critblade.
In summary, I do not think the LA changes are as cut and dry as Wyrd's and Waterman's analysis seem to indicate. Assassin balance is much more complicated then it would appear, and there are other balancing factors. If these LA changes go through, Shadowblades will be at great disadvantage towards any other stealther. And against casters, their primary prey. Because they will not be able to get Critical Strike up as high as any other realm's assassin. The following issues need to be addressed:
1. Endurance costs of Left Axe styles. LA styles are known for being endurance hogs (to the point of only being able to execute 4-5 styles sometimes). If LA damage is lowered, revisiting LA endurance consumption will become mandatory.
2. No access to thrust damage weapons, yet Dex is a SB's primary stat. Dex is also beneficial to raise evade chances, but if you're a thruster/piercer you also gain weaponskill. A double advantage SBs do not have. An alternate would be to change SB sword/axes to use 75% STR, 25% DEX instead of 100% STR. Or STR could be made the primary stat.
3. No access to dex/qui debuff in the envenom line. SBs are unable to debuff Inf or NS equally because they only take 50% of a hit to their weaponskill. Alternately, create a dex/con envenom. As using a dex/qui debuff would still not be as hard-hitting as a str/con debuff is to a SB.
4. No good RA's. Vanish is bugged. Shadowrun is crap. The single best assassin RA's remaining other then the cookie cutters (MOP, DR, etc) are Wild Arcana and Avoid Pain. It's time to revisit realm abilities.
5. No single evade-stun style available, only an evade chain which after 1.62 will do less damage then the Hamstring chain.
6. Single line respec does not help someone who has gone 44/44. They respec LA down to practically nothing (20ish), have gimped LA, and still cannot raise CS enough. There need to be at least 2 single line respecs, but it would be easier to give a full respec.
7. Furthermore none of this addresses the fact players have spent dozens of hours farming cash to purchase spellcrafted suits of equipment that cost between 3 and 10 plat, depending on your connections and quality of equipment you had crafted. Even if they were given a full respec, what do they do with all their now useless armor that doesn't fit their new spec? I don't know how Mythic would do it, but it would be nice to allow LAers to wipe the spellcrafting off their armor so they won't have to get the pieces all re-made and expensive ablatives re-applied. "
Written in 1.62 by some TL.
H
Haldar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #37
was relics that Shadowzerkers pre-nerf could 4-shot heavytanks.
bullshit.
unbuffed tank with SC -- ~1700 hp
buffed tanl with SC -- ~2400 hp
1700/4=425
my DF cap buffed was 374 MH + 77 OH.
=======================================
once i have seen info on some boards from SB that they need to have all 3 str relics to compete. And that's true. Why u ask...bcoz of str/con debuff.
my unbuffed WS - 1012
my buffed WS - 1488
my debuffed WS - 1092
debuff affects thrust infis (majority) for half power, so it means that infi with same original 1488 WS (tho in reality it will be more - due to 50 thrust, better original WS modifier, better overall growth of WS stats - dex and str) will be debuffed to ~1290 WS. And this means that by only 1 swing SB is outdamaged by ~20% due to WS difference, same 20% which are added via relics. And im not mentioning here Dfang which is has 60% more chance to land than CB-FG and allows to remove approx 800-1000 hp from SB during stun time.
bullshit.
unbuffed tank with SC -- ~1700 hp
buffed tanl with SC -- ~2400 hp
1700/4=425
my DF cap buffed was 374 MH + 77 OH.
=======================================
once i have seen info on some boards from SB that they need to have all 3 str relics to compete. And that's true. Why u ask...bcoz of str/con debuff.
my unbuffed WS - 1012
my buffed WS - 1488
my debuffed WS - 1092
debuff affects thrust infis (majority) for half power, so it means that infi with same original 1488 WS (tho in reality it will be more - due to 50 thrust, better original WS modifier, better overall growth of WS stats - dex and str) will be debuffed to ~1290 WS. And this means that by only 1 swing SB is outdamaged by ~20% due to WS difference, same 20% which are added via relics. And im not mentioning here Dfang which is has 60% more chance to land than CB-FG and allows to remove approx 800-1000 hp from SB during stun time.
S
saltymcpepper
Guest
- Thread starter
- #38
theres nothing special about that wep.
you should see the 4.4 spd harpoons with +to af cap etc, LT proc, etc =)
and theyre easy to get with a fg
you should see the 4.4 spd harpoons with +to af cap etc, LT proc, etc =)
and theyre easy to get with a fg
P
Powahhh
Guest
- Thread starter
- #39
imagine a PA-CD
S
saltymcpepper
Guest
- Thread starter
- #40
why would a ns want 50 pierce.
best dps is 44 pierce 39 cs rest cd
best dps is 44 pierce 39 cs rest cd
A
Aussie-
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- Thread starter
- #41
mr 50LA
hypocrit :great: