More Fun.

[ECA]

So, I don't know if any of you heard this, but the EU is sending up 30 satellites over the next few years to have a more accurate version of GPS.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4555276.stm

Great, heres a nice quote.

Galileo will deliver the tools national governments need to introduce wide-scale road charging.

Does anyone else just feel like we're heading towards a big brother state?

Mandatory ID cards ( ok, currently "voluntary" ), property inspectors who you cant deny access to, satellite tracking systems, along with national DNA databases being bandied about.

Next up ladies and gents, the barcode tattoo on the back of the head, I mean, come on, if your not committing crimes, you have nothing to fear!





EDIT: And how could I forget the retention of your internet traffic :/

 

[Earl]

The EU is kinda weird, because things seem to get passed.. and no matter how much we detest it, it dosn't even get in to our media to start with...

I mean, the retention thing, if it wasn't for your internet awareness, would you have otherwise known about the bill which (if kinda good in terms of fighting certain things) but interfears with our privacy on quite a big scale...

 

[mank!]

war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength

 

[ECA]

And this forum is the daily mail?

 

[Tom]

It will be interesting to see how they propose to make road charging be based on a GPS system. It just plain will not work, ever.

 

[Chilly]

It will be interesting to see how they propose to make road charging be based on a GPS system. It just plain will not work, ever.

why not? GPS (even in its current form) easily has the resolution to place a car on a certain road - and with the new system it will enable more clients with better resolution.

 

[Damini]

I think this new idea is hateful.

If you can get a moody MOT, or just drive without one, or insurance, or road tax, or even a driving licence, why would you voluntarily put a tracker system in your car that will cost you a fortune? The system wouldn't even be looked at twice by this government unless it meant more money coming in, so it *will* cost you more if you're an honest man, and it won't cost you a penny if you aren't.

Also, it doesn't take an idiot to work out that if you need to drive to Scotland, you're better off stealing a car in the middle of the night than taking your own. Which is just the encouragement we need to prevent car crime, which already isn't investigated or bothered with in the majority of places, well, not unless you carve up a copper at high speed, or forget to turn off your fog lights.

 

[Draylor]

Its just GPS without the Americans having control and being able to turn it off at will. Or it was: until the Eurocrats gave up certain controls to the Americans

Ah well, its paid me a few pennies so far and probably will again so it cant be a bad thing.

 

[Tom]

why not? GPS (even in its current form) easily has the resolution to place a car on a certain road - and with the new system it will enable more clients with better resolution.

"Whoops, who left that newspaper on top of the GPS receiver?"

"Dammit, electrical problems again! Stupid car!"

"What you say? GPS receivers can't be dried off in a microwave oven? Well I never!"

"What do you mean, don't use that 5W radio transmitter next to the GPS receiver?"

 

[Escape]

Next up ladies and gents, the barcode tattoo on the back of the head

After vehicles are successfully tagged, humans will be next!
To "protect you" from identity theft and fraud.
Tracked 24/7 to prevent "terrorism".

 

[Chilly]

"Whoops, who left that newspaper on top of the GPS receiver?"

"Dammit, electrical problems again! Stupid car!"

"What you say? GPS receivers can't be dried off in a microwave oven? Well I never!"

"What do you mean, don't use that 5W radio transmitter next to the GPS receiver?"

heh, furry muff then - didnt think about that aspect of it all - and if that is the case then it will be impossible to prosecute anyone for violation since reliability of the equipment will be a very solid defense.

So who cares?

 

[ECA]

more about the road charging:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4552132.stm


and as for the stuff tom listed, whats to stop the odd camera or fifty being in place to check your not driving without an operational chip under the skin and barcode on the head?

 

[Mofo8]

Looks like the yanks don't like it

http://www.new-frontiers.org/newsarchives/display.aspx?n=547

 

[TdC]

indeed. they won't & don't like it. they'll never like anything that frees you from their control. things are more complex than they seem in the case of these satellites. they're not up there just to make sure Tom pays his road tax you know.

 

[DaGaffer]

indeed. they won't & don't like it. they'll never like anything that frees you from their control. things are more complex than they seem in the case of these satellites. they're not up there just to make sure Tom pays his road tax you know.

I can kind of understand their nervousness over China's involvement though, and all they're saying in that article is that if Galileo was used against them they'd take action, no surprise.

 

[TdC]

indeed, no surprises there, though I'm a bit worried at the choice of words by that senator. a satelite is a multi-billion euro/pound asset. destroying one or several is going to make a lot of people very pissed off, and the tough-guy posturing pisses *me* off. When "random evil country"(TM) abuses Europe's good will, then you can ask us to kick teh big meanies off our satelites if we haven't already done so.

Asking. Nicely. You are not going to say "hey, we don't give a shit, we're blowing your multi-billion euro assets out of space. you meddling buggers shouldn't have had them in the first place, and if we hadden't saved you pansies in WWII you'd all be speaking german! rah!". Those kinds of speaches should be saved for old soldiers on patriot day or whatever they call it.

grr. I'd be really shit at international relations

 

[DaGaffer]

indeed, no surprises there, though I'm a bit worried at the choice of words by that senator. a satelite is a multi-billion euro/pound asset. destroying one or several is going to make a lot of people very pissed off, and the tough-guy posturing pisses *me* off. When "random evil country"(TM) abuses Europe's good will, then you can ask us to kick teh big meanies off our satelites if we haven't already done so.

Asking. Nicely. You are not going to say "hey, we don't give a shit, we're blowing your multi-billion euro assets out of space. you meddling buggers shouldn't have had them in the first place, and if we hadden't saved you pansies in WWII you'd all be speaking german! rah!". Those kinds of speaches should be saved for old soldiers on patriot day or whatever they call it.

grr. I'd be really shit at international relations

And I'm sure, as part of their NATO commitment if nothing else, the Yanks would ask us to kick the bad guys off first. Then they'd blow them up, because lets be realistic, everyone in Europe would argue about it for ages, the French would say 'Non' just to be bloody minded, and the decision would be made for us by events. If the EU doesn't like the Americans' attitude, then maybe we need to spend a bit more on defence?

 

[Penguin]

Well before it was only the US with this type of satelite and they reserved the right to restrict it to military use so i suppose it's taking away a big advantage?

Asking. Nicely. You are not going to say "hey, we don't give a shit, we're blowing your multi-billion euro assets out of space. you meddling buggers shouldn't have had them in the first place, and if we hadden't saved you pansies in WWII you'd all be speaking german! rah!". Those kinds of speaches should be saved for old soldiers on patriot day or whatever they call it.

Although i can see logic in them blowing up something thats being used against them, it pisses me off too (The multi-billion pound asset thing) Still, theirs could get blown up too right? Just noones told them yet.

 

[ECA]

Ya because obviously china would just ignore the GPS system if they ever attacked america.

 

[TdC]

And I'm sure, as part of their NATO commitment if nothing else, the Yanks would ask us to kick the bad guys off first. Then they'd blow them up, because lets be realistic, everyone in Europe would argue about it for ages, the French would say 'Non' just to be bloody minded, and the decision would be made for us by events. If the EU doesn't like the Americans' attitude, then maybe we need to spend a bit more on defence?

Arrr! You have me now Gaffer: I don't want the EU to spend on defence, not when it means defence against America. Why? Because I have been brought up to see the USA as friends, as good people, as the blue in the Blue vs Red game. Perhaps it was great propaganda, perhaps I'm a genuine pacifist or maybe I just don't know enough on the subject to make an informed comment

I hope it's not going to come down to the US and EU slugging it out while the rest of the world have to start learning Chinese :/

Although i can see logic in them blowing up something thats being used against them, it pisses me off too (The multi-billion pound asset thing) Still, theirs could get blown up too right? Just noones told them yet.

I don't know mate. I do know this though: them shutting down our satelites is something like preemptive tactics. Us doing it to them is an act of war.

 

[Tom]

I wonder how they propose to destroy these satellites. Sounds like bluff and bluster to me, unless they've invented a missile system that can fly that far with that accuracy -- which I find incredibly unlikely.

 

[ECA]

I wonder how they propose to destroy these satellites. Sounds like bluff and bluster to me, unless they've invented a missile system that can fly that far with that accuracy -- which I find incredibly unlikely.

They have flown simulated tests of firing missiles from high altitude planes at satellites.

They had low-altitude ASAT missiles ( anti satellite ), in 1977, wanna bet they cant hit a high altitude sat now?

 

[Draylor]

Looks like the yanks don't like it

http://www.new-frontiers.org/newsarchives/display.aspx?n=547

Outdated bullshit, note the October 2004 date.

 

[Tom]

They had low-altitude ASAT missiles ( anti satellite ), in 1977, wanna bet they cant hit a high altitude sat now?

In 1969 they could land a man on the moon, but in 1999 they lost a Mars probe because they couldn't tell the difference between Metric and Imperial.

So yes. A tenner.

 

[ECA]

In 1969 they could land a man on the moon, but in 1999 they lost a Mars probe because they couldn't tell the difference between Metric and Imperial.

So yes. A tenner.

Stung by the Russian deployment the USAF revived its own ASAT program. From 1977 Vought developed an ASAT to attack satellites in LEO, the three stage missile was fired by an F-15 in a steep climb and carried a miniature homing vehicle (MHV) to track and then destroy the target kinetically. The first test was in 1983 and the first successful interception, of the defunct US satellite P78 SolWind, was on September 13, 1985.

Wikipedia says you owe me a tenner.

 

[DaGaffer]

Arrr! You have me now Gaffer: I don't want the EU to spend on defence, not when it means defence against America. Why? Because I have been brought up to see the USA as friends, as good people, as the blue in the Blue vs Red game. Perhaps it was great propaganda, perhaps I'm a genuine pacifist or maybe I just don't know enough on the subject to make an informed comment

I hope it's not going to come down to the US and EU slugging it out while the rest of the world have to start learning Chinese :/



I don't know mate. I do know this though: them shutting down our satelites is something like preemptive tactics. Us doing it to them is an act of war.

I wasn't necessarily thinking of us doing it to them, but if you have weak defence, you can't really be surprised when the biggest kid on the block decides to take your lunch money, even if you were in his 'gang'; and unless you have a stick to beat him with, eventually he's going to do it. The Americans themselves (I think it was FDR) said "countries don't have friends, only interests". It so happens that for the last 60 years Europe and America's interests have been generally aligned, but unfortunately it doesn't follow that it will always be that way, after all, as late as the 1920s (yes, after we'd been WWI allies) the US Navy routinely wargamed for potential clashes with the Royal Navy.

 

[Mofo8]

One difference between these types of Satellites (GPS or the EU equivalent), and spy-sats and stuff is that they're designed to give off their locations to a fairly accurate degree. Anti-Sat missiles could easily be designed to home in on the signal - or force the owners to shut them down.

 

[Furr]

bring on the EU empire...

yes yes i know it won't happen, but hey ho

 

[Penguin]

Ya because obviously china would just ignore the GPS system if they ever attacked america.

That wasn't what i was saying.

 

[tris-]

im sure their backup reason is to use this to track for terrorism.

its always about the terrorism.