Money where does it all go

[old.dittytwo]

How do we get money in the game?
It seems so hard to come by and difficult to get, there must be an easier way
I play a lvl 10 minstrel the only armour I can afford is all grey to me

As I needed decent musical instruments as these are needed more than the weapons or armour for a minstrel then spent the rest of the money on weapon and shield and what was left over spent on armour which was one piece of orange and ding turned yellow after about five mins of play

What I am basically asking is do other classes suffer from this or should we minstrels get free instruments??
and is there an easier way of getting money?
Let me know

 

[old.chesnor]

Mythic have got the way a player gains wealth in this game sooo wrong. In your early days it is almost impossible to equip yourself so you can exploit the strengths of you character. At higher levels you have so much coin, and so little to spend it on players are sitting on platina of essentially unspendable coin.

I'll illustrate. I created an acolyte/friar on prydwen because I quite fancied playing the class. I clubbed my way to lvl5 killing blues and greens, collecting the loots they drop. I then headed off to Camelot for some staff based melee goodness. My reward for joining the Church of Albion and becoming a Friar was a Robe thingy. All good so far. But wait ! I have staff combat styles, but no staff ! I go to buy one and the cheapest is 32s (if my memory serves me), a sum of coin I do not carry at that point. So I'm kind of stuck. So i had to go back out and kill with my club (no styles) saving for that staff. That sucks.

So, we get lots of medium/high lvl players moaning about beggars, and lots of lowbies who are basically gimped because they can't even afford the most basic kit (let alone good quality weapons and armour). The game mechanics basically encourage begging, because every1 know a 'newbie' to the game will be horribly poor, when any1 over around lvl40 will be horrendously rich (in relative terms).

Dudes, that latest dye of your clothes could have equipped an army of noobs with orange cons gear...........

 

[m-a-n-t-i-s]

Method I have found to help is get a character up high using blood and sweat and tears then use it to fund new characters at the start.

Of course you need to find someone trustworthy enough to hold onto your gold/equipment while you relog but thats not usually a problem.

I agree though chesnor - the monetary system is wierd.

 

[Alrindel]

I don't agree with you, chesnor. There's a very interesting article on GamaSutra about how Mythic developed DAoC, and one of the points they specifically mention is how much thought went into the design of the economy, and I think they did a pretty balanced job.

Camelot's economy was designed by Dave Rickey. This economic system ensures that players must continue to spend money as they rise in level, which limits the amount of money that stays in the game. Dave and Mark Jacobs designed Camelot's trade skill system, which enables players to make armor, weapons, and other objects in the game - all tied to the economic system.

It's always possible, at every low to medium stage of the game, to go out and bash green mobs for a while, or do tasks and quests, or craft, and get enough money to get yourself fair equipment. Yes, it takes time - it's supposed to! At high levels when the mobs are giving up a lot of loot, there's still plenty of things to spend cash on, not least repairing keep doors and buying siege engines.
Any low level character who is dancing around the crafters shouting "pls pls pls pls" scrounging for gold to buy purple weapons, or purple dye, or both is just lazy and greedy.
Any high level character complaining about having too much money might want to reevaluate how much he's contributing to the defense of the realm. Those relic keep doors are expensive!

 

[SFXman]

Originally posted by Alrindel
I don't agree with you, chesnor. There's a very interesting article on GamaSutra about how Mythic developed DAoC, and one of the points they specifically mention is how much thought went into the design of the economy, and I think they did a pretty balanced job.

It's always possible, at every low to medium stage of the game, to go out and bash green mobs for a while, or do tasks and quests, or craft, and get enough money to get yourself fair equipment. Yes, it takes time - it's supposed to! At high levels when the mobs are giving up a lot of loot, there's still plenty of things to spend cash on, not least repairing keep doors and buying siege engines.
Any low level character who is dancing around the crafters shouting "pls pls pls pls" scrounging for gold to buy purple weapons, or purple dye, or both is just lazy and greedy.
Any high level character complaining about having too much money might want to reevaluate how much he's contributing to the defense of the realm. Those relic keep doors are expensive!

True, so very true. Do you actually want this game to be another Ultima Online where you have millions and millions making the economy a plain bitch to cope with if you are a new player.... I think a new player will not like the idea of small houses costing hundreds of thousands (this was maybe not a good point since housing prices are tied to the fact that space is non-existant now and new players raise demand, thus raising prices) and all the rest of it being very expensive....
Personally I like the way DAoC is. If you have no earlier characters to fund your alt char, well then you have to really work to get into the game... although there are always classes who don't need even near the money to fund their leveling compared to for example an armsman who needs loads of new equipment at a constant rate (although armsmen can slaughter hoardes of monsters and get loads of loot).
One thing I must say is that Grove Nymphs are GREAT for exp AND money/loot! Try them out as they turn yellow, at blue you can get loads of cash. Green? Even better.

 

[granny]

Originally posted by chesnor
The game mechanics basically encourage begging

Nope, what the game mechanics encourage in my opinion is grouping regularly and joining guilds. Good guilds will always help lower level characters with equipment, money etc. We always pass down magic items & weapons to lower level guild members when we can't use them. Why throw them away by selling them to a merchant? Pass them on...

Also if you're lvl 10 or so and can't find a guild who'll take you then just try grouping a lot, if you can group regularly with some people there's nothing to start you forming your own guild

 

[old.chesnor]

In this game, we are overrun with beggars. Low levels really, really do struggle to equip themselves and we appear to sadistically expect everyone to kill green/blue mobs thousands of times so they don't level faster than they need new equipment (ironic considering the primary driver in the acquisition of more wealth IS levels !!!). High levels DO sit on huge reserves of coin, as in this patch siege is not mandatory on most keep raids (trolls with hammers), and is a luxury in defence. Upgrading keep doors is a money pit, surely, but one which Mythic STILL tweaks frequently as many high level players on US servers complain that they have nothing to spend their money on. Also, I seem to remember the brave defenders at Bledmeer Faste spent PLATINA on upgrading doors, which ultimately only delayed the inevitable....

It appears the economic system of DAOC was based fairly and squarely on the land of the games birth. i.e. the rich are fat, plump, and secure in the knowledge that they are immensely wealthy, while the poor struggle for lifes barest neccessities. This is a game, not an exercise in socio-economic engineering.

If the economic system worked beggars wouldn't exist.....ipso facto...It doesn't

 

[old.Lianuchta]

I know I sometimes go around the newbie areas and give a gold or so to the people around. Other people in my guild do this as well. I don't generally give to beggars, though if you catch me in a good mood I will. I'll ask people what kind of armor/weapons they have, and if it's the tattered woolen gear that drops off skeletons and stuff, I'll give em some cash to get some armor. I make 60-70g on a good night, and as a mage my gear hardly ever needs repairing, I'm already wearing the latest black and royal purple fashions from Tir na Nog, so I see no point hanging on to 100s of gold pieces. I fund the guild tradeskillers off it, and if we get asked we would repair doors/build rams/catapults etc. Still plenty leftover, which I like to spread around.

My alt's equipment is all orange con. That and the poisons i can get him, allows him to solo yellows to low oranges easily, reducing levelling times, and all that from an initial 10g investment.

My Alb alts are struggling a bit more, but that's all part of the fun I think.

 

[old.Hendrick]

Wrong. People are just too lazy to go out and work. Life is hard and you just have to fight a bit for your cash. Search for good hunting spots and find the right enemy and you will gain enough cash. You will never be rich at low levels, but you will get along. I personally fought grove nymphs till level 20 and never had trouble. My crafting started after that. The usual beggar is a person named "Powerkiller Ubergod" or the like, who just lusts for gold with no idea how to spend it.

Buy equipment from crafters, as they sell stuff that is better and cheaper than merchant-bought items. Or start crafting yourself and do consignments from the craftsmaster. Find yourself a guild, make friends, group and do not cry if you are not rich after 2 hours of play.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Weeeell...my two pennies to the pile once more...

Now. First off on the comment bout level 5 and how there's ont enough silver on that level...example.

level 7 runemaster = around 70s

How? Well first off you don't pick up every loot and small sack you find. You only pick up those that are worth the trip back to town. On casters(middie atleast) you don't need a new staff until..say...level 12? It all depends on how you spend your money, if you go straight and buy the crappiest armor from the shop and don't gather them from the monsters you will end up poor. Always think when you're buying stuff "Hmm, do i really need this or do i save another 20s and buy that other one that will last for longer" and so on...

I've played many chars in middie, almost every one and i've found out that you manage perfectly without the aid from others, by selling loot, considering twice when you buy stuff and maybe even use a bit more time to avoid horse rides (those things really eat up the silver)

I'll cap this one since it's important....

REally important....

Many forget this little thing but it's important...

NO DYE OR ENAMEL!!

Even at higher levels you can easily waste all your hard earned cash, simply by saying "oooh! purty colors!" and buying full set of dye for an armor you will probably toss away on the next level.

Hmm..i think that's enough of ranting so i think i'll sum it up:

1. No dye or enamels.

2. Consider if you really need the horseride or can you just run there.

3. Compare the armors. Can you survive two levels with the crappy one and only -then- buy the next set?

4. Try the quests. Perhaps you don't need those boots since you can get them for free by killing an ant.

5. Pick up only those loots that are worth the trip back to town. No use in picking up 5 sacks for 1 copper each.

6. No dye or enamels. Just to remind you.

Ok i'm done. Agree or don't but it has kept my pouch in a healthy weight

 

[cadiva]

Low level cash problems

I've always found that between levels 1 and 5 the loot you get of humanoid/imp style monsters provides you with armour which you have no need to upgrade before level 3 at least.
By level 3, you usually have aquired at least 10 to 15 silver, which is still enough to get you yellow armour which will last until level 5. At level 5 it seems most classes reward those that join with either a decent weapon or a piece of useful armour and by this time you should also have found a couple of people that you like grouping with.
From level 5 to 10 it is quite possible to go out and bash either solo and take greens and blues, or in a group doing yellows and oranges and still keep up with your armour/weapons.

The single most irritating thing in the game at the moment is the number of beggars who think that they should get things easy for them.

Personally I'm far more inclined to give money and or spare items to someone who either role plays a request, or tries to at least speak to me and find out a little bit more about my character than the level 3 a**hole who comes up and says give me 2gp for armour.

Rather than deriding the rich are rich attitude we should instead be actively promoting the reward comes after effort one - the first people to play this game had no-one to beg from, they had to go out and work for their rewards, I see no reason why people coming into the game now should have it easy.

Get out and roleplay (it is a role playing game ffs) or at least ask for something realistic - begging for 2gp at level 3 should get you nothing but a kick up the backside imo.

Cadiva Arilys
Shaman 18th season (Wolverines)
(after two weeks play with a great group, which proves it can be done)
Excalibur/Midguard

 

[Alrindel]

In Hibernia at any given time there are 3-500 people playing and perhaps a couple of scroungers making a nuisance of themselves in Mag Mell and Tir Na Nog. That's hardly overrun with beggars, although they do make a disproportionate amount of noise.

It appears the economic system of DAOC was based fairly and squarely on the land of the games birth. i.e. the rich are fat, plump, and secure in the knowledge that they are immensely wealthy, while the poor struggle for lifes barest neccessities. This is a game, not an exercise in socio-economic engineering.

That is the oddest comment I have seen on any DAoC board, anywhere, ever.

If the economic system worked beggars wouldn't exist.....ipso facto...It doesn't

Don't be silly. Last week I in Tir Na Nog watched a level 7 character beg passers-by to help him create a guild, and then when it was done he came out to the forge and started begging the crafters to give him 300g so he could get an emblem. If DAoC was structured so that it rained gold coins every fifteen minutes and all you had to do was go out to the field next to Mag Mell and pick them up there would STILL be scroungers at the forge chanting "pls pls pls pls pls"

 

[old.Hendrick]

I totally forgot a most important point:
Do killtasks. They not only give you great experience, but also coin as a reward. You get those by approaching a named guard and simply saying "task". The more secretive of you may want to /whisper task. Consignments from craftsmasters are got the same way. You can do killtasks from 5 to 20, and consignments up to 650 skill. Sometimes you have to search for a guard that will give you a task, as most of them only give tasks to you at a certain level. Albion is very lucky here though, as you can visit Prydwen Keep/Prydwen Bridge/West Downs who are all close to each other. I leveled to 20 with this, almost solely with killtasks from the guards at WD.

 

[-Wedge-]

I must admit that some classes have way less cash then others because they constantly need new equipement/weapons...

But why buy armor when all you need to do is find the correct mob that drops the armor you need... I've spent hours in Mithra Tomb to find all the forlon I needed for my Armsman... The weapon I used was the one I got from my trainer... By the time I got all the pieces of Forlon I went from 7 to 10, and I could use Forlon up to 17 or so... Then we went to Keltoi and got Vindi armor there... But all in all, repairing armor, buying new weapons, I never had much cash with my Armsman... (I always looked bad as hell with all the different colors of my armor though, but always just had enough to keep my weapon up to date)

Now if I take my theurgist, that class just has it way too easy... Boring as hell, but easy... I ran with grey armor till level 20, after which I got armor from a few guildies, and bought what I didn't get... The only thing you need to keep 'up-to-date' with a theurgist is your staff... This is probably the same with a wizzie, although a theurgist probably has it a bit easier... Seeing beasties never come close (if you play correctly)...

Now my armsman has enough coin to last a while, even though weaponcraft is costing me a sum of cash (but hey, a good night hunting gives me 100g+ with the correct mobs)... But don't ask, since you wont get anything, I worked hard for it, so why shoud somebody else get an easy life? The only people I help are friends + guildies...

 

[old.dittytwo]

Money

Ok all good points above
What I am trying to say that the money I have obtained from hard graft (and I mean hard I only managed to get on once in a while so soloing is a must for me and well you don’t get the same exp/coinage from green/blue as you do from yellow orange) although I do get to group with people (thanks to all those out there that have) the coinage is split and with eight people the 50cp well you end up with about 15cp each and after about two hours (when ISP cuts me off) I have managed to get 1s if I am lucky, So do yellow and orange I hear you say with this armour and such and such a weapon, well I can’t armour all wrong for that

I am not begging by the way
I want no "charity mate" I want to work to get there it is a challenge I agree one that I want but

All I want is enough money to buy the stuff I need to survive!!!

Due to the fact that I am a minstrel (my own choice) the instruments are more expensive than my weapons and armour. At my lvl a new lute cost nearly (memory going) about 45s (not too bad I hear you say). Now bear that in mind when you think that I also need a drum at 50s and a flute (for mezz arr mezzz (dreamy look) at 40-50s that is 1g 30s and probably some copper some where along the line
Then armour and weapons /shields
It adds up to more than I think than other classes’ use and or need

I think that it would be an idea that any new instruments that are needed are handed out by the trainer and the old ones taken back automatically that way when we get into a guild or into RVR we have money to contribute and such to buy better weapons

The economics mean nothing to me, perhaps they should increase the coinage at lower lvl’s and decrease the coinage as you get further into the game. Just an idea

let me know

Dittytwo

 

[Aeiedil]

it is possibel to survive without having to beg well enough, how do you think everyone lived at the start of the game when everyone was level 0? it was a hard life, but it got easier

 

[old.Trine Aquavit]

It probably needs confirmation from someone in the know but I read somewhere that the 'con' of the instrument you're playing only has a negligable effect on the your songs. If this is the case you should be able to buy a cheaper green or blue instrument with your available cash. The cheapest instruments shouldn't be more than 3s each.

This is the theory that I was working on when I started a new Bard yesterday, anyway

 

[Alrindel]

Dittytwo, in two weeks you're going to read this post back and laugh about it. And if some rude, obnoxious n00b comes up to your nice wealthy high level character and demands gold, you're going to tell him to get stuffed, like we do (or if he asks nicely and reasonably for something, you just might make his day and give it to him).

 

[Aeiedil]

by level 30 you will start to see the money piling up personally for those that have a lot of money i advise something, give large donations to your local skillers, because they will be able to make you some very nice weapons

 

[Ottar]

Where does all the money go, eh?

Well, it does go. At levels 40+ I have farmed cash (green-blue mobs) rather regularly to keep up with them expenses. I aint spending it on dyes neither. Good thing that I can solo Varulv now easily enough for such purposes.

A siege ram costs 52gold. My siegecraft skill is at 19 atm. As it doesn’t increase with each siege engine built, I can only guess how much above 1 plat I’ve spent on them. Some of it has been from guild tho. Whatever, it’s is peaunts compared to keep doors.

Door upgrades are an expensive necessity much more so when ya have to repair them as well, as the door self-repair seems to works more or less randomly in this version.

Then there’s crafting. Highlevel crafting is very expensive. Eye of Odin, the largest guild on the server is currently supporting powerlevelling one highlevel crafter at the time as we would simply go bankrupt otherwise. This besides most people doing some kind of crafting on their own.

Sure, lower levels have constant cash problems. We’ve been there, all of us. However, stating that them highlevels have nothing to do with their money is untrue. Helping newcomers to get going faster is good for the realm. If they prove their worth later, by making the realm stronger with their dedication, patience and skills of gameplay. Begging around or somehow being unable to harvest cash from greencon high loot mobs.. are not exactly indicators of any such character traits.

Not that I've noticed all that much begging recently. At some points, it has been quite rampant.. Last few weeks I've somehow managed to avoid such situations. Being a skald helps. One is usually out of sight by the time people can react

Ottar, Skald

 

[ceixava]

crafting is an endless void for money after 400 skill the material prices go really up and its really gonna start to cost you..

a bit of crafting (5-10 skill increases per day on main craft) and then the exp/loot you get you end up pretty +-0 with your money

most costly things are the keep doors (im a hib, and for some reason we always upgrade crauchon doors after we retake it, even tho its THE ping-pong keep of this game), siege eq..

at higher levels the dyes dont make you see a loss of money really.. you dont upgrade your armor every day and you might wear the same stuff for 5 or even 10 levels.. after af90++ the next thing you wear is prolly af98 from lvl48 on.. and after that, you only get random pieces that might be better than old ones and dyes dont end up costing much money

ps. hibbie high level scale usually has a nice color by itself.. af92 blackscale and af94 dreadscale are both black.. most af98 stuff is truly horrific in color tho.. (if you dont count the crimson colored siabra guardian drops)

 

[Louster]

Ugh.
Surely the 'reward' to the horrible, horrible work that's put into this GAME GAME GAME is exploration, finding new things, being social, all that kinda stuff. Without the badness, the goodness isn't so good; without the goodness, the badness is worse.
Soloing (lack of social interaction) green monsters (lack of exploration/discovery) for hours (repetition/lack of novelty) just so you can be 'adequate' surely encompasses everything that's not fun in this GAME GAME GAME. Why would being forced into slave labour at low levels just so you can match the people that get lucky with either a guild or high level friends or whatever in effectiveness be a good thing? I'm talking mainly tanks here, though, I guess.

Also, I got the impression that loot in a group was split based on 'usefulness'. Is this right? Like, if you're a tank and your weapon is crap, you won't get nearly as much loot as a guy with weaponry perfect for his level. Right? If this is true (and here's me kinda hoping it isn't, though I've seen an amount of evidence to back this up) then there is a horrible, horrible trap you can fall into while grouping: if you end up being a poor fighter thanks to lack of money and therefore lack of a decent weapon, you don't get as much loot from the auto-splits... and thus don't get as much money... and thus can't upgrade...
Bleep bop.

Oh and also, one last gripe.
I hate twinks. Well, sort of - mainly I hate twinks that boast about being twinked, as if it's some incredible personal achievement of theirs.
I'm somewhat twinked myself (pretty much solely because I spent like 50 hours or something stupid doing armourcrafting consignments (purely for money and the fact that I have no life at all, and it was something decent, simple and mind-numbing to do while listening to new music)) but not insanely so, and it isn't gonna last for long.
I was in a group earlier with some Eye of Odin guy who was COMPLAINING how his ORANGE-CON sword wasn't God-damned good enough. What the hell? He said that 'he didn't bother with blue-con items' because he 'asked his guild for stuff'. Figures. I hate twinks. They completely screw up the game for 'legitimate' players (and this is an observation rather than a personal complaint, since I've had it relatively easy thanks to the incredible amount of time I've "put to good use" by clicking specific buttons in specific combinations and running around in small circles (armourcrafting.))

(An idea: I'm gonna one day try and see if I can get one of those robotic lego sets, and program into it a routine of key presses and text recognition, so that I can just leave running to increase my crafting skill. Maybe I'll make it beep loudly and explode into tiny bite-size morsels if I run out of money or something. Or maybe I'll make it enter /gc ROBOT LEGO MAN REQUESTING MONEY TO INCREASE CRAFTING SKILL. PLEASE COMPLY. Would this count as cheating?)

 

[Danya]

Instruments are a money pit. A pit I threw a lot of cash into. When it comes down to it only your flute con is critical, the lute and drum con just lengthens the pulse length, useful for twisting but hardly a major issue. Minstrels do have it hard below level 30 as there are pretty much not instrument drops (except the epic flute). A young minstrel asked me the other day if I had any old drops I could give him, I didn't (as there aren't any) but gave him 10g to help him on his way. If he'd asked for gold straight out I would have said no.
So as a minstrel, save money by not buying a flute till your epic is blue/green, keep drums and lute green, and keep your armour and weaponry blue/yellow. Once you get up to barrows level you can go there and farm up some nice dropped instruments.

As for high level spending, keep doors (we like to upgrade DC doors to lvl 4/5 too ) and dyes are about it for me. Repairs cost a few g at most, healer fees are rare as I normally die RvR or get ressed. As for high level armour colour, there's some nice black af 92 chain, but the af 86 I wear came in a horrid blue/green colour... 180g of dye later it's fit to wear

 

[Danya]

Loot split is entirely random not based on usefulness. The random algorithm seems a bit skewed at times but there you go.

 

[Louster]

Is that so.
Weird.
I remember one time in the beta when I was playing in Hibernia as a hero. I was in a group with another hero, some healer guy and a caster, and after a few hours of killing stuff, everyone had ended up with 4 bags full of loot. Except me. I had 1 bag full. (I was a couple of levels below the other hero and a lot of my equipment sucked.) That did seem a bit 'skewed' indeed.

 

[Louster]

But anyhow - it's sortof good to hear that it's random and I'm merely insanely unlucky at times.

 

[Danya]

I've had it where people were saying "lets go sell I'm full" and I check my bag and there's 4 items in it. And other times I've had a full bag almost straight away, the random loot seems a bit broken.

 

[old.dittytwo]

Originally posted by Dannyn
I've had it where people were saying "lets go sell I'm full" and I check my bag and there's 4 items in it. And other times I've had a full bag almost straight away, the random loot seems a bit broken.

Thank god I thought that I was the only one
On Sunday morning I was in a group with all of us either 9 or 10 (me being 9 at the time) and we were doing purple wind mephitis on the plains
After about an hour one of our lot said that he had to go and sell cause he was full where as I had about five items nearly all of which were taken from the horses I soloed with a friend earlier.... it does seem a bit too random!!!!

And this epic Minstrel quest when do I start this I am only lvl 10 at the moment (should I have it already??)

 

[granny]

There is a bug with auto-split where sometimes someone in a group will get *nothing*. If that seems to be happening that person just needs to leave the group and get re-invited. Other than that it is very random but it seems to be a weird kind of random. Some days I get very very little, somedays I get everything, very odd.

Also notice that sometimes all the good drops go to the same person over and over again? Several times in Coruscating Mines groups I've got every single good drop in full groups over 3-4 hour periods, makes me popular for just handing out the scale armour

 

[matax]

I found the same - the thing with magic drops is to keep an eye on the drops you get and then distribute them to the person that they will benefit the most - and hopefully everyone else will do the same.


Granny - Itsybitsy Teenyweeny Ranger - snap