Modem and ISDN users.....

[old.venturer01]

been thinking about this a lot since i first saw the post also been reading all the posts.
assuming everything is the same
and they were to play each other at the end of the year
i think the x modem player would win
venturer
the draft of the above is about 100000000000 pages long

[This message has been edited by venturer01 (edited 11 May 2000).]

 

[old.marky]

What about Player 3? The one who plays online with modem for the year, but also plays on his LAN?

I bet he'd kick both their arses when he went LPB

 

[old.saltire]

Nice to see this thread didn't turn into a slanging match, as is often the case when LPB/HPW gets mentioned.

From personal experience, I vouch for the idea that a modemer has more 'grit' to improve and show his worth, because, as was said above, he's generally considered a lesser opponent. The experience of being railed so much by a weapon that is extremely hard to use on a high ping left me feeling angry and frustrated to such an extent I HAD to learn how to use it, with or without my ping.

I'd also point out I've switched so much from HPW online to LPB offline on a LAN that I find the change quite easy now. What I do notice is that I get just as worked up and frustrated as an LPB as I do a HPW, BUT when I look at the scoreboard I'm nearer the top. I can engage LPB's I couldn't touch before. I never avoided them, but I could win some, if not all, engagements. Remember, I'm not saying I'm any more skilled, just the hardware is making up for the gap that would be there should I be HPW.

It's always a bit intimidating taking first steps online as LPB, because you're never sure the ping WILL make such a difference. But I DO find I come FAR higher up the table than I would otherwise.

So basically, the HPW will generally have more humility and more determination. Other than that, he's not suddenly going to get reflexes he never had, he's just going to be able to point and shoot, and KNOW that that is what he's hitting rather than what the client is predicting he'll hit.

(BTW, the LPB status I refer to is on LAN or Cable w/20 ping, as against my modem ping of 150-200)

 

[old.Necro]

"The battle isn't always to the strong nor the race to the swift, though that is the way to bet"

The problem with being a HPB is the "..right i'm nearly home with their flag, got backup in base who'll sort out those on my tailpipe.. no this is NOT the time to have a lockup.."

Any HPB who'se been around as long as i have definatly has determination, but quite frankey, in Q3, the handicap is simply far too much to play seriously. The netcode has gone downhill since QW and Q2..

 

[old.Swordsman]

In Q3F does anyone else reckon that using the Engineer gives HPBs a better chance of a good result? (Their Auto-gun doesn't run at the high ping)
I personally prefer this class if my ping is 300-400 and I'm playing people with 50-90.

As for the ISDN / Modem user I think either you've got it or you don't and that's what will show in the end.

 

[old.Necro]

I've not played Q3F, but i have played WF and TF (QW ver). As long as an engineer doesn't get lock-o-vision ping isn't that much of an issue.

 

[old.SimbobX]

Just my £0.02, but I reckon that after 6 months of two even players playing on a similar conn, you really wouldn't be able to notice the difference that their prior conn would have made.

You could easily argue either way (e.g. player 1 is mor used to his conn, therefore has the advantage .. player 2 previously had a worse conn, so he has the advantage) but I think at the end of the day you have to hold your hands up in discussions like this and say that the general randomness of play (who spawns where, who knows the map that little bit better, who's feeling a bit tired etc etc) make far more difference than the tiny difference that would be made by the circumstances under test.

When you get two players, who are close enough in skill that matches generally go either way, factors like that make much more difference (imo).

I can't see anyone ever saying "Aha! you might have won seven games in a row, but really we're evenly matched and I'm just hindered by having had a Modem conn six months ago!"

See what I mean?

On a completely different note, I tend to dislike threads like this, because they refocus people's minds on the whole HPB/LPB debate as if it's A) the be-all-and-end-all of online gaming and B) vital to have every advantage going. I'm pretty sure that's not the intention of SAS, who started the thread, but that's something that almost always comes out of these threads .. people start feeling cheated if they get beaten by someone with a better conn / stop fielding their mates in clan matches because they'd "prefer an LPB to play" and, in the worst case, resort to cheating to "even up the playing field" .. all of which should be discouraged, imo.

oops, turned into a rant. sorry!

 

[old.venturer01]

hi again
all the postings have a valid point,
but as the original posting was posted when not that many people had isdn or
cable modems, thus the isdn player would have a
mega advantage ( as far as ping goes ) for say 6 months.
one of the many reasons the x modem player would win is knowing the
effectively submissive parts of the map, if you take tournament play for example.
the isdn player would never have to use these parts of the map until he or she
encountered a player of better ability or a lower ping ( or a more EXPERIENCED ONLINE PLAYER ).
thus the x modem player should have a better idea of the tactics required when
you are on the run, getting beat or have a much higher ping .

venturer



[This message has been edited by venturer01 (edited 19 May 2000).]

[This message has been edited by venturer01 (edited 19 May 2000).]

[This message has been edited by venturer01 (edited 20 May 2000).]

[This message has been edited by venturer01 (edited 21 May 2000).]

 

[old.Goon]

Hello, I'm a HPB. (Heh, sounds like introductions at an A.A. session.) I believe that the Modem user would be the better all round player at the end of the year. A HPB has to work for his kills, he has to practice to find any edge that will help him get those extra kills (learning the levels, aiming with the lag, and NEVER giving up.) So once he does get his ISDN link and adjusts his aim with the lag difference he will have the edge (for as long as his memory holds) over the pure ISDN'er because he knows those little extra's that the other guy never bothered to work out.

Anyway the whole things a sore point for me at the moment, I've got a ninja PC but can't afford ISDN and for some reason I can't do anything but freeze in a Q3 online game at the mo. (Other games such as TFC and UT are fine!) If anyone know of some links to some great modem tweaking guides for Q3 do me a favour and post'em for me eh?

 

[old.venturer01]

[Edited by venturer01 on 16-05-01 at 07:04]

 

[old.[Pixie]]

SSHhhhhhHHhhhHhhHhhHhHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

i hear a mouse rolling a pebble in the garden.

i havent slept for 3 days and someone sticks a question like that on front of me? hah! i say player 3, the one with adsl...

[This message has been edited by [Pixie] (edited 03 June 2000).]

 

[old.[tsu]jimmy]

the simple thing is modem users get no respect in the modern games! I personally could afford to uprgade to a faster connection but its just not worth the bother(ill use the uni's T3 when I go). I am a realtively good player on Quake 3 Fortress and within my first week I had been told by 4 different members of =x= that I could get a trial and make it into the clan. I went along to there IRC page and spoke to various members waiting for kneekapp to show up.
It was at this point that I asked kneekapp for a trial only to be met with the following reply from a random member "kk hes not an lpb"
this pissed me off a lot, I was then fobbed off by kneekapp saying that "we only need scouts" completely contradicting what the other 4 members had said!

the simple thing is hpb's get nor respect and the only way we can earn is to kick the lpb's asses (not easy with the lag i get. TO do this Ive started my own clan which only accepts hpb's. if ur interested in joining contact me!

by the way, the modem user would win as he has to have more skill just to get acknowledged!

 

[old.Necro]

Don't bank on using the Uni's connection for gaming. I made that mistake.

Nowerdays, more people are starting to invest quite a lot of money in clanplay, so in effect it as much of a hardware race as anything else. Heck i've come across clans in which most of the members got P600 GeForceDDR systems. Pity really.

I think that the effective requirment of a LPB connect for Q3 clanplay is just part of the professionalisation it is going through.

 

[old.TUG]

Tis ok having a mint system Not good having a bloody modem though...

I am a LOT better at Q2 with no FPS limit and it runs smoooooooooooooooth as fuck (DDR GeForce helps) but I have to cap to 50fps on servers otherwise me ping is like 300ms instead of 140...

I need a fast connection still tho... ignore this post

 

[athena]

I've always been modem and looking back Im glad I have been. I've just spent the last 2 weeks with an ISDN connect, it was lovely. Dreading comming home to my modem I was rather surprised to see my aim and general play improve dramatically.
Modem is fun, however I suppose if you want to be serious about your play then modem is of little or no use.
Oh back to the original question. Player 1

PS
Funny how people often assume they would be so much better on ISDN since this is not always the case.

 

[old.Havok]

When I started Playing q3 it was on LAN in collage, few mounths later i got connected and started playing on my 56k.
What i found was even though i got used to "aiming off" for lag i actully got alot worse at q3. Playing with 300 to 800 ping is'nd really fun at all
I got too used to playing defenceive, runing away from lpb's and all. so i've stoped playng for the moment and am waitin on ISDN

------------------
narf!!
clanludo

[This message has been edited by Havok (edited 07 June 2000).]

 

[old.venturer01]

we should have an answer now, as loads of ppl have moved from hpb to lpb. i think the better player would be the better player !.

also going lpb is not the panacea for your online gaming skills or fun, never forget fun.

 

[old.vatomatic]

I believe that they're both better off for having ISDN period.

One has spent more time in the enviornment and has had possibly more opportunity to practice. However, some people learn quicker than others and require less practise.

At the end of the day it is all fun and you can't really moan about your latency. You go into a game knowing your ping and what to expect.

And on the point someone raised about respect. I think anyone with better skills than others should share their insights rather that torture their lower skilled opponents.

Right Rant Over.

Play the CorkScrew MOD! - It will improve your targetting (see the game server forum for details)

-== DON'T LOOSE YOUR HEAD ===-

 

[old.feigned innocence]

relatively new - about 4 months - online gamer, so I'll throw my hat into the ring.

Spent 3 months as a hpw on a software modem and been on a cm connection for just less than a month now.
To be honest, I switched to HL (tfc actually) when on modem, as the Q3 netcode is just so pants. I know that the winmodem was making it worse, but Q3 was unplayable, even after the lagless.com fixes applied. Connection interrupted for the first 30-60 secs per map. The key thing here wasn't ping, but the connection interruption breaks. The game ws no FUN. And as that's why we're all here, yeah...

The thing is, I do agree with the hpw persistence argument. I switched to tfc where I was a hpw, but totally playable and fun. and started dragging myself off the bottom of the scorecards as I improved my skills. The feeling of achievement + exhilaration was excellemnt from pulling myself up to midway, above a bunch of lpb's.

Now as a lpb I do pay Q3, because it's enjoyable, not because I can be within reach of the top scorers... sometimes.... but because the game isn't totally ruined by lag killed gaming (that it's negated by HL's approach is simply embaressing for ID, in my mind) and connection interrupt spikes.

summmary - if you never play as a a hpw, you don't build that tenaciousness, but q3 ain't friendly to you...