ML8 Saturday 21 january 12 GMT

[mercury]

Raid

There is

Sorry, Vav. I was thinking primarily of arti raids. I should not have forgotten your mammoth ML thrashes.

 

[mercury]

About the claiming, again thats all ure own choice, if u state dbefore raid what ure rules are and ppl join them then ppl dont have to complaign about them, so imo merc ure wrong on this subject. Its a well known fact that i dont claim items on my normal ML raids. But ive made new rules where i give myself a +mod. But like i said its ure own choice .

If I'm so wrong, mon ami, might I ask then why you dont do it?

If it's all correct and above board, why not? I suspect it's because you know it is not the right thing to do. It is, imo, simply exploiting those who may have waited weeks for a particular ML so when one comes along they do not have the real choice of missing it. It's only the ML aspect that lets these rogue leaders get away with it. They wouldn't try it on a normal farming BG.
Giving yourself a bit better chance in the lotto with a slight mod increase or keeping a spare set of respec stones on a DR when everyone has had 2 at least is not the same as blatant avarice. A good raid leader deserves some sort of reward, and if the BG voted him an item, no-one, even me, could possibly object.

Do you really think that if an ML7 raid leader said he was going to keep Flowing Shawl of Anatalya or Typhon's Remains that I'd be the only one telling him where to stick his raid?

And I'll say this now : if anyone wants to get rid of me from an ML I've joined, all they have to do is make a major claim and then eat my dust.


\/ to all lamers and those who label legitimate complaints as whining or QQ

 

[joap]

87 people considered the conditions we set for the raid acceptable (i was on grunho fyi). Quite frankly i don't understand your whining. If you don't like the conditions a person announces before the raid you don't atend it. Not buts not ifs. You just don't go. If you disagree so strongly, run your own raid.

If, we had changed the conditions i'd consider it foul play. But we didn't. And just a FYI about the scroll drops, I can't tell exacly which scrolls droped, but they were all trash.

 

[vavires]

If I'm so wrong, mon ami, might I ask then why you dont do it?

If it's all correct and above board, why not? I suspect it's because you know it is not the right thing to do. It is, imo, simply exploiting those who may have waited weeks for a particular ML so when one comes along they do not have the real choice of missing it. It's only the ML aspect that lets these rogue leaders get away with it. They wouldn't try it on a normal farming BG.
Giving yourself a bit better chance in the lotto with a slight mod increase or keeping a spare set of respec stones on a DR when everyone has had 2 at least is not the same as blatant avarice. A good raid leader deserves some sort of reward, and if the BG voted him an item, no-one, even me, could possibly object.

Do you really think that if an ML7 raid leader said he was going to keep Flowing Shawl of Anatalya or Typhon's Remains that I'd be the only one telling him where to stick his raid?

And I'll say this now : if anyone wants to get rid of me from an ML I've joined, all they have to do is make a major claim and then eat my dust.


\/ to all lamers and those who label legitimate complaints as whining or QQ

The reason why i dont claim items, is cause i dont run Ml's for those items. But since i run them ive decided like i mentioned before to give myself a lil mod. But ofc i agree with u on the subject that its (call it what u want) To claim like all scrolls ect and the very best items without a chance for others. But then im sorry to say it again.

AS a Raid Leader, I lay down my set of rules.
Then ppl got 4 choices.

- They agree with my Rules, and they join it.
- They dont agree with my rules and dont join it.
- They dont agree with my rules, join it and keep there mounth shut.
- They dont agree with my rules, Wine in bg and get kicked/banned.

So apperently 87 ppl are 1 of the 1 and 3 option. In the end i think they are just happy that they got ml8 completed.

 

[Septima]

I start to like you, Mercury, you make me laugh

Anyway like tungai said this thread is a dead one, so if you have any issue with me pm me or catch me ingame on any toon in signature. Because tbfh i still don't see what is your problem with us.
About cross raids, well srry about that vavi, it was not our intention to drain people from your raids, and actually i think our raids managed to get more people on some of them.
Anyway i don't think we will do more raids until you have done all of your next serie and you will prolly see me on some of them
Anyway /hug mercury and i hope i can help solve any issue you have with us

 

[vavires]

I start to like you, Mercury, you make me laugh

Anyway like tungai said this thread is a dead one, so if you have any issue with me pm me or catch me ingame on any toon in signature. Because tbfh i still don't see what is your problem with us.
About cross raids, well srry about that vavi, it was not our intention to drain people from your raids, and actually i think our raids managed to get more people on some of them.
Anyway i don't think we will do more raids until you have done all of your next serie and you will prolly see me on some of them
Anyway /hug mercury and i hope i can help solve any issue you have with us

Not my raids

 

[Septima]

My bad, now stop posting on FH while on a ml9!!

 

[mercury]

87 people considered the conditions we set for the raid acceptable (i was on grunho fyi). Quite frankly i don't understand your whining. If you don't like the conditions a person announces before the raid you don't atend it. Not buts not ifs. You just don't go. If you disagree so strongly, run your own raid.

If, we had changed the conditions i'd consider it foul play. But we didn't. And just a FYI about the scroll drops, I can't tell exacly which scrolls droped, but they were all trash.

1. There's 300,000 guys locked up in UK gaols for theft. Doesn't mean it's right. Numbers mean nothing. You may think I'm alone in this complaint - I'm not, but not many others think it worth mentioning.
87 people may have needed ML8, so would it have been alright to exploit that need by imposing biased conditions? I think not, though as Angrist explained 2 pages ago the claims were not for him personally so he persuaded me to his point of view, so that argument is not really against this particular raid.

2. If you're the sort that labels legitimate debate or complaint which doesn't happen to agree with where you're coming from as 'whining' then you've reduced the disagreement to the level of the elementary school playground. I'm not looking here for anything for myself, which is what I interpret whining as, - just normal courtesy which ensures that people like you are not treading rough-shod over Prydwen's herbaceous borders, lawns, ornamental ponds and any other parts of the landscape that happen to be in the way.

3. No matter how many decent raids are run, it still doesn't make unfair ones any the less abhorrent. As I've clearly stated elsewhere I would not attend such raids, so your advice is not needed. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna be muzzled just because you don't like my banging on. I'm just about to join a BG that has had to be postponed for 2 hours because an ML9 raid was re-arranged for someone else's convenience. Obviously this has not affected you, but had it done so would you have kept quiet about it because some muppet calls you a whiner?

4. I already knew the scrolls that dropped were litter. So what? If someone hacks your bank account but can't get any cash because there ain't any, you think that would cut any ice with the judge?

\/ to all lamers and exploiters

 

[mercury]

I start to like you, Mercury, you make me laugh

Anyway like tungai said this thread is a dead one, so if you have any issue with me pm me or catch me ingame on any toon in signature. Because tbfh i still don't see what is your problem with us.
About cross raids, well srry about that vavi, it was not our intention to drain people from your raids, and actually i think our raids managed to get more people on some of them.
Anyway i don't think we will do more raids until you have done all of your next serie and you will prolly see me on some of them
Anyway /hug mercury and i hope i can help solve any issue you have with us

1. I don't give a rat's arse whether you like me or not - you don't know me. I have no problem at all with you as a person. I can't like or dislike anyone I have hardly had any communication with. I can, however, take issue with their point of view. My arguments, whines, call em what you like, are with the way certain tin-pot dictators think they can get away with any sort of misbehaviour simply because they have numbers on their side. If that interferes with my enjoyment of the game, then I will speak out - and in a forum where it's open and above board. In-game is not the place for it imo.

2. Similarly I'm in no mood to accept your attempts to 'close' a thread by saying it's dead. If that's the case, stop posting, especially stuff that raises a point.

3. I'm glad to see I amuse you. As my Mum says, one day you may be laughing on the other side of your face.

"I may not agree with your point of view but I will defend with your life your right to express it"

 

[joap]

1. There's 300,000 guys locked up in UK gaols for theft. Doesn't mean it's right. Numbers mean nothing. You may think I'm alone in this complaint - I'm not, but not many others think it worth mentioning.
87 people may have needed ML8, so would it have been alright to exploit that need by imposing biased conditions? I think not, though as Angrist explained 2 pages ago the claims were not for him personally so he persuaded me to his point of view, so that argument is not really against this particular raid.

Yes, let's start a free the thiefs campaign.
If so many people are revolted by the conditions we set for the raid, i find it's funny that you are the only one going on about it. I ask all the people who share your viewpoint to speak now.
Did anyone, apart from mercury, feel exploited in anyway?

2. If you're the sort that labels legitimate debate or complaint which doesn't happen to agree with where you're coming from as 'whining' then you've reduced the disagreement to the level of the elementary school playground. I'm not looking here for anything for myself, which is what I interpret whining as, - just normal courtesy which ensures that people like you are not treading rough-shod over Prydwen's herbaceous borders, lawns, ornamental ponds and any other parts of the landscape that happen to be in the way.

I'm the sort of person who will listen to complaints and act on them acording to his conciensce. I stand by my statements.

3. No matter how many decent raids are run, it still doesn't make unfair ones any the less abhorrent. As I've clearly stated elsewhere I would not attend such raids, so your advice is not needed. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna be muzzled just because you don't like my banging on. I'm just about to join a BG that has had to be postponed for 2 hours because an ML9 raid was re-arranged for someone else's convenience. Obviously this has not affected you, but had it done so would you have kept quiet about it because some muppet calls you a whiner?

Please whine all you want. It's a God given right, and you're using it to the fullest. Don't feel like i'm trying to muzzle you in the least. As far as i'm concerned i see no value in your complaints so i will not do anything about them.

I'd like to adress a couple of points also:

1. Regarding the date/time of the raid
It was impossible for us (due to RL) to run the raid during the week. Since we wanted to attend the ml9 on sunday, we were left with only saturday to run the ml8 to get our chars ready. Since we knew of the relic raid planned for late afternoon on saturday we decided to move the ml8 to an earlier slot. Unfortunately it overlaped with blueskys raids. All 3 of us have played with Blue, atended his raids, know and respect him. I see little problem in the overlap of events, as 1. it's a one time event, 2. i guess not many people would be forced to choose one raid over the other.

2. Regarding imposing conditions on people
Excalibur, unlike Prydwen, does not have a tradition of regularly farming high end drops (TG, high MLs were scarce at best). Once, someone proposed to run a series of ML10 raids for the loot, but set as a condition that he would claim a number of items. People found that unaceptable and told him they would not show up under those conditions. Want to guess the result?
Now back to our raid; please look at the date the raid was announced, and tell me if people found our terms unreasonable didn't they have time to set up a raid of their own on term they found more fair?

3. Regarding which drops go to lotto
It is the raid leader choice to set the terms for his raid. It is the raid atender to choose if the terms are good enough or not.

 

[vavires]

My bad, now stop posting on FH while on a ml9!!

we were standing still .p

 

[vavires]

Yes, let's start a free the thiefs campaign.
If so many people are revolted by the conditions we set for the raid, i find it's funny that you are the only one going on about it. I ask all the people who share your viewpoint to speak now.
Did anyone, apart from mercury, feel exploited in anyway?




I'm the sort of person who will listen to complaints and act on them acording to his conciensce. I stand by my statements.



Please whine all you want. It's a God given right, and you're using it to the fullest. Don't feel like i'm trying to muzzle you in the least. As far as i'm concerned i see no value in your complaints so i will not do anything about them.

I'd like to adress a couple of points also:

1. Regarding the date/time of the raid
It was impossible for us (due to RL) to run the raid during the week. Since we wanted to attend the ml9 on sunday, we were left with only saturday to run the ml8 to get our chars ready. Since we knew of the relic raid planned for late afternoon on saturday we decided to move the ml8 to an earlier slot. Unfortunately it overlaped with blueskys raids. All 3 of us have played with Blue, atended his raids, know and respect him. I see little problem in the overlap of events, as 1. it's a one time event, 2. i guess not many people would be forced to choose one raid over the other.

2. Regarding imposing conditions on people
Excalibur, unlike Prydwen, does not have a tradition of regularly farming high end drops (TG, high MLs were scarce at best). Once, someone proposed to run a series of ML10 raids for the loot, but set as a condition that he would claim a number of items. People found that unaceptable and told him they would not show up under those conditions. Want to guess the result?
Now back to our raid; please look at the date the raid was announced, and tell me if people found our terms unreasonable didn't they have time to set up a raid of their own on term they found more fair?

3. Regarding which drops go to lotto
It is the raid leader choice to set the terms for his raid. It is the raid atender to choose if the terms are good enough or not.

1 thing is wrong,
Ppl do have to choose