MGC Alliance clarification

[Killgorde]

Since its rapid increase in numbers from the original 5 members a number of incidents have come to pass which lead me to believe that GM's of additional guilds (not all) have not informed their members to any degree about what they actually signed up to. In order that everyone has the opportunity to fully understand to what degree their guild is committed the full MGC agreement is posted below in an unabridged form. If you are a member of MGC and are not familiar with it, please read fully (and kick your GM up the arse if what you read comes as a shock to you ). The public release of this this document will also go a long way to alleviating any niggles which occur on /as between those that have been briefed by conscientious GM's and others that haven't. If your guild decides that the commitment required is not something you are capable of giving, this is not a problem. There is a waiting list of non-members queueing up to get in (as it is sadly limited to 20 guilds).

When all is said and done though, a big grats to everyone who has put their realm before their own interests big time since the MGC was created. I believe Albs and Hibs now know that there is no guarantee when they buy a Midgard Medallion that the end result will be an easy keep knock over during peak period. Keep up the good work fellas

/Salutes


Midgard Gentleman's Club Agreement

Overview

MGC was founded purely as an alliance for joint RvR exercises that have a relevant bearing either offensively or defensively for Midgard. To explain, this includes domestic relic/keep/frontier defence and keep/relic offense conducted under one umbrella organisation in the interests of strength and unity against our enemies. When someone can convince the original founders that general RvR in Emain, drop hunting (Legion/Dragon events etc), and exping has some relevance to the above we will be more than happy to dilute the objectives we originally agreed and include them in MGC's SOP (Standard Operating Procedures). As off this moment in time they have no place on /as chat in particular, so please brief your peeps accordingly.

Behavior

There have been numerous problems in Midgard in the past - particularly with respect to the behavior of individuals towards one another. A primary object of MGC is a united Midgard, and to that end it is imperative that ALL alliance members behave properly towards both alliance members and those guilds outside the alliance at all times. If one of your members initiates or takes part in a slagging festival either in-game, IRC or a popular forum he/she is eroding what we are trying to create (unity) and it will be expected that you deal with him/her accordingly (demotion to denial of /as use and involvement in MGC operations).

That said, I concede that there are a number (not many, thankfully) of complete pillocks in our realm. Do not be tempted to reduce yourself or your alliance to their level, no matter how irrititating or downright offensive you find their behavior. Whatever your personal feelings are...keep them in guild please, and keep the moral high ground above the dross.

AS/ Protocol

This is the biggie and causes more annoyance and grief amongst peeps than any other facet of either of the two alliances I have previously had involvement in. It is not for calling half the realm down on a lone stealther at the x-roads in Upplands. Neither is it for organising Legion raids or mainstream non-alliance planned Emain RvR. Why? Simply because not of these have any relevance to our core objective and if peeps use it for them it dilutes the importance of any post which is relative. An example was last week when we had 2FG Albs in Jamtland keep-taking and a call-to-arms was spammed out of sight by some uninitiated (who shall remain nameless) organising a Legion hunt. /AS is there for joint operations/intelligence on enemy movements (by which I mean 1FG or more in our frontiers) etc.

On the above, it is essential for you as leaders of your guilds to ensure that peeps you allow access to /as have at least three brain cells. You are responsible for their postings, so please make sure that when they do post something it is accurate, concise (humour is allowed) and just as important relevant. While the use of /loc co-ordinates is not mandatory when calling in INC, it makes a hell of a difference pin-pointing an enemy force if they arent at a "named" location. Please try to encourage your guild peeps to use the /loc format (k's only will suffice).

Finally on the /as issue...any dissing or offensive behavior will result in immediate suspension of access for the perpetrator.

Calls-to-Arms

A very simple method has been adopted:

Relic Defence: Everyone (Amended in the interests of clarification)

Keep/Realm Defence: Anyone not in Emain/DF/Malmo exping (if you are about to port Emain or have released from Emain and invaders are reported in our frontiers you are expected to assist in removing them). By the same token, however, if you are already in that location it would be unfair to expect you to return every time we get invaders. Additionally peeps playing alts should be willing to log mains to assist whenever called upon.

Relic Raids: +45's on Relic Keep and +40's as backup when called (AMG Hadrians etc)

Note: On the last point, this is purely a logistics issue. Apart from FPS loss and lag compromising our operational effectiveness, mob aggro pulled by the low 40's is very debilitating to the speed and focus of the operation. Anyone caring to disagree with me on this issue will be judged on how many successful and failed relic raids he/she has organised and led. I would rather -45's concentrate on popping that level at which point they become a benefit rather than a potential hindrance.

Security

When any joint operation is being planned or initiated no person within the alliance utters a word of it in any non-secure channel (open chat, group chat with non-allied peeps, irc etc). It will be expected of the guild leader of anyone doing so to suspend the perpetrator from /as access. If a relic raid involving 60 peeps is compromised by one over-excited kid blurting out on open channel in Svasud (as has been done innumerate times in the past) it is an immense waste of man hours for the peeps that have put the effort in and who have the pre-requisite number of brain cells necessary to understand why its important to hold their tongues for the duration of an operation.

Any member found to be "sharing" his account with someone from an enemy realm, or "a cross-teamer" is either removed from his guild or his guild his removed from the alliance. Likewise, anyone using a LAN where there is a risk that any joint operation may be overseen by someone from another realm "looking over his shoulder" is to removed from /as access immediately.

To those of you that think the above are harsh measures I ask simply whether or not you want our relics back. Relic raids in the past have all been compromised by the above. And there are those of us who have little wish to wasting immeasurable hours in the future engaging in them only to be compromised by idiots.

Conclusion

While all of the above has been written in a forthright and humorless format, it is only to get the point across. We all want to have fun and a good laugh (me more than most) but let's do it from a position of strength. It is the responsibility of every senior guild member reading what is written above to brief their peeps accordingly and to enforce what is put across. Failure of a member in any aspect of the above may in the first instance be the result of your lack of communicating the alliance guidelines effectively to them...so please spend some time doing it so you dont get it in the neck from the other GM's/seniors in the alliance

Kindest Regards

Killgorde

 

[Zarek Excalibur]

"A primary object of MGC is a united Midgard, and to that end it is imperative that ALL alliance members behave properly towards both alliance members and those guilds outside the alliance at all times. If one of your members initiates or takes part in a slagging festival either in-game, IRC or a popular forum he/she is eroding what we are trying to create (unity) and it will be expected that you deal with him/her accordingly (demotion to denial of /as use and involvement in MGC operations).
"

Maybe it would be nice too see unity and no slagging in /as chat All i have witnessed last few days in /as chat is people slagging of other guilds commitments.
The /as chat atm seems liek a slaggign forum some times of the day.


Where as i totally agree with the alliance chat should be RvR orientated.

People in the alliance must surley understand we all play the game on our own free time. And for fun. ATM I wouldnt be surprised if the alliance starts taking people emails and contact phone numbers demanding that they ought too log and help kill the 1fg of albs/hibs that have come into our frontier.

Does it really matter if you/your guild contributes 1 hour or 10 hours? Do i need too now log on more hours per week too make sure i RvR enough.

Surely people are only a use too the realm if they wanna play, u dont need too force people. Make the allaince fun to be in, and maybe you will see a larger increase in peopel taking part.


Please note these our my own views, and not to do with my guild.
And im pretty sure there are people in every guild in the alalince that have the same views.

Dont take the fun outta DAOC.

Zarek

 

[BlueJam]

It's a shame WR had to leave as you seemed to be really achieving some things, but the flames on /as were getting silly looking. I hope you can work through it.

 

[Killgorde]

A question Zarek. When did you actually read or were briefed fully about this document? When your GM first had access to it? Or when I posted it here? Please read the last paragraph again and you may get an understanding about where the fracas in /as the other night came from. I wasn't online to witness what went on the other night , but the way I see it, guys that were upset were only expressing in an undiplomatic way borne out of frustration what the majority of others were feeling. And this opinion has been reinforced by a constant stream of pm's since.


Ask yourself what kind of realm you want. You want one with relics or without? One without pride in its ability and potential, or the one we had before MGC was created? Do yourself a favour and read the following thread and subsequent posts to understand what MGC has brought to Midgard and what it has removed:

http://forums.barrysworld.com/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=404828

If you read the alliance document carefully one thing will become transparently clear....this alliance was created with mainly the level 50 peeps in mind. Why? Because level 50 peeps don't have the grind of levelling anymore, and the less hassle the lower guys get to distract them from that grind of exping, the better for them. The MGC was created intentionally to be purely focussed on the defence of our realm, and the acquisition of relics. On both fronts it has delivered magnificently because of the commitment of the majority of peeps in it.

One of the major contributers to this has been the ability to deliver and receive accurate intelligence on /as without it turning into an rp-friendly Emain chat group, but keeping true to our primary objectives. Have a laugh on Open, Broad, Guild, Group and Friends chat - all we ask is that one teensy weensy channel is dedicated to matters of realm defence. Is that too much to ask?

This alliance was formed with 5 guilds who had a common purpose and had no problem whatsoever adopting what you have read and agreed 100% with it, and the reasons behind its format. The first 5 were united and unanimous in their endorsing this alliance. The rest asked to join it. Now some of the other guilds who joined after the event may have thought "Hell boys, here's a trendy new alliance that seems to work, we want in" WITHOUT understanding what the original guilds were all about or making the slightest effort to inform their guildpeeps what they were buying into. The GM of one major guild hadn't even read this document 2 weeks after it was available to him via the MGC forum to which his guild had access. And had absolutely no idea what he had committed his guild to. And therefore neither did his peeps.

The point is simply this....the MGC was designed so that if EVERYONE in it (and I am talking lvl 50's here) puts the priority of realm defence before Emain, the workload of defending the realm is SHARED by all the seniors equally. It's called being part of a team and when you are a part of a team your individual contribution as a "team player" should (unless I am wrong) reduce substantially as the team gets larger. If you don'y want into what myself and the other GM's originally created because your guild wants to sit on the bench and play substitutes while the others are all out on the field sharing the workload, what are you doing in this alliance in the first place? There are a number of guilds out there who are disappointed there are no spaces open to them.

There ARE guilds who's only contribution to Midgard is buying a ticket to Svasud and then a medallion to Emain 99% of the time. We all know who they are, and thats their choice. Sure...scream "Relic raid" and they all come running to defend it once a week when the third or fouth keep goes down. Or when there is a significant number of the enemy at AMG in Odins and they get to hear about it, they break speed records to get there for the rp haul they are likely to receive. Otherwise? Their first interest is not their realm but wherever they can get RP, and thats why they arent welcome in this alliance. Because they care diddlysquat about their realm other than when its within their interest. Which is fair enough, everyone pays his money and is entitled to take from the game what he wants; I have no problem with that. But what turns them on isn't any true realm loyalty because that isnt what they want from the game. There are those of us, however, that are turned on by this and its a case of "Horses for Courses."

What was truly sad (and at the same time reassuring for the future) is peeps in those guilds with very few high levels who pm'ed me after the recent spat in /as concerned that their guilds were being singled out as non-contributers. No they damn well weren't, and many many thanks to them for adopting a conscientous attitude.

To all the peeps contributing: /max respect...you are doing one shithot job.

To the ones who aren't: There's no shame in admitting this alliance isnt your cup of of tea, but please make way for others who feel it is a good thing to belong to. It will be stronger as a result.

Finally: There is no way on God's green earth I will ever contact anyone either by email, telephone, irc, carrier pigeon or smoke signals in defence of this realm. It's just a game FFS But in a game, the best team wins..just ask yourself which team is winning at the moment

 

[Killgorde]

Originally posted by BlueJam
It's a shame WR had to leave as you seemed to be really achieving some things, but the flames on /as were getting silly looking. I hope you can work through it.

The flames may have been uncalled for (and the offenders were severely bollocked) but if you read the agreement, ask yourself if they werent in some way justified.

 

[Zarek Excalibur]

"A question Zarek. When did you actually read or were briefed fully about this document? When your GM first had access to it? Or when I posted it here?"

I read it once i saw it in the topic. Whether that be an Alliance or Guild topic. I dont recall.

"Ask yourself what kind of realm you want. You want one with relics or without? One without pride in its ability and potential, or the one we had before MGC was created?"

Of course, I want a realm that has pride and wants too keep control of its frontier land. But I had pride in my realm before was MGC was created. I was proud midguard was kicking ass before we got the relic, we proved with RP/popualion we were the strongest realm. Im am proud that hibs and albs fear mid armys in general more than each other. And of course I congratualte MGC in the organising and achieving what they did when they returned one of our relics. But I also want the freedom as its a game, I play in my leisure time. Some people in a guild play only for RvR. Some people in a guild play only for PvE. Some people enjoy crafting. And its there choice. Do we as guilds as part of this allaince now have too boot the people who would rather do other things out of the guild?


"Have a laugh on Open, Broad, Guild, Group and Friends chat - all we ask is that one teensy weensy channel is dedicated to matters of realm defence. Is that too much to ask?"

No thast not too much too ask, I think thats good. But the last few days all i here is flaming. Some coming from even yourself which is in direction violation of the agreement?

"If you don'y want into what myself and the other GM's originally created because your guild wants to sit on the bench and play substitutes while the others are all out on the field sharing the workload, what are you doing in this alliance in the first place? There are a number of guilds out there who are disappointed there are no spaces open to them."

Most of the agreement too me seem fair enough. But I expect you too abide by it. Which include the spamming and useless information and flamming in /as. But if one day if i decide heh,, im pissed of with my main. I need a break.. gonna play my ALT. Then so be it.
Just as if someone decided ive had enough im gonan do down the pub.
Do people in your own guild have too lie too you. If they need some peace time too themselves?


The alliance has achieved soem good things. And the information has been great at times. But I dont need too here 10 times in alliance chat people are not pullign there wait. Post it on here.


Just too let you know. I regard Jamtland, Yggada, Uppland, Odin, Emain, Gorge, Collery, Briefine, Hadrians, Pennine, Snowdonia, Sauvage all as midgard terrirotires. I want too take every fort. Every relic. and hopefully 1 day midgard will achieve this.


Note: Jsut logged in and still more flaming goign on. Which clouds over all the good info thats being said. I reckon if u wee too log alliance chat over 2 days. 80%+ is crap which is jsut making the good info harder too read.

 

[old.Vandgard]

If someone from some other guild pretty much insulted everyone on /as, and then their GM said it was 'in some way justified' what would you think?

any dissing or offensive behavior will result in immediate suspension of access for the perpetrator.

Also, im curious as to what you'll do if mids in the alliance don't drop whatever it is they're doing to defend the realm. Kick the offending guild out of the alliance? How does that help midgard as a realm?

White Rose are a good example, it was said that only very few (5 i think) members were taking part in defense, but with WR having left we're now without even those 5 people, nor does it give WR members the chance to help in the future, which doesn't help the realm at all.

Most people just don't have the level of commitment you expect from your own guild and seem to expect from members of the alliance. Trying to hold them to such high standards will only cause problems and further friction.

And people should be encouraged to participate in rvr in our frontiers, instead of being flamed and insulted, like i myself was because i happened to be in emain at the time and oh god i had only spent 2 hours in odins that day. Real good way of making sure i join further defense and keep taking.

Finally, when certain people started flinging insults around /as, it seemed to me that it was only partly frustration that others didn't drop what they were doing and help, the rest being resentment that they were there and others were free to do as they will.

You can lead your guild however you see fit Killgorde, but this is an alliance, not a dictatorship with yourself as leader as you sometimes seem to want it to be... or then again maybe it is.

I play for fun, and i enjoy defending my realm, but (and this may sound selfish) only when i feel like it.

 

[Subbiz]

I see that you are facing the same problems as seems to be the eternal issue in big alliances :/

I recall the last week before the NP lead alliance emptied out, massive emain spam because albs had a busy day @ mmg.. When I first (and later on Rei also) tried to ease out the spam in a polite tone, it resulted in a very hostile response which ended up in mudcasting from both sides (me vs 5-6 spammers) where one of the main excuses of the emain-sided alliance users were that, if you was annoyed by the emain 'chat' then you could just turn off alliance messages, which, ofcourse, made my piss boil.
It is very sad, and if I should ever be part of a big alliance again, I would concequently turn off alliance chat right away, unless it was limited to only a very few ppl from each guild who had /as write rights.
I turned alliance chat yellow, which makes it stand out very sharp when looking at the screen, and with 75% being spam while in a full group with guildchat enabled also, then something is wrong in any given case, especially with a big chat window as I have.

However it ended up in most leaving rather fast. The first left after I requested the guild with the most annoying emain spammer to have his /as removed in the guild setting. I took that as a sign that fare most of the guilds in our alliance had nothing against spam, which is why im happy we are now only co-oping with diva in /as.. its so nicely quiet these days. only a few important messages are said.. sometimes a bit too few, since the word doesnt get to us as fast as before, but thats the price you pay.

 

[Garnet]

White Rose was booted from the alliance??!?!?!??!

Shame on you for booting them they are a very nice guild.

 

[Killgorde]

White Rose were not booted out of the alliance. White Rose took offence at comments (ill-judged and undiplomatic in their nature) made in /as and left. <slaps Garnet for not reading the thread properly >

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the "Call-to-Arms" section on this agreement before comenting. If you cant be bothered to read (or maybe understand) the whole thing here we go:

"Keep/Realm Defence: Anyone not in Emain/DF/Malmo exping (if you are about to port Emain or have released from Emain and invaders are reported in our frontiers you are expected to assist in removing them). By the same token, however, if you are already in that location it would be unfair to expect you to return every time we get invaders. Additionally peeps playing alts should be willing to log mains to assist whenever called upon."

But if you spend your entire life in Emain etc, what's the point in belonging to an alliance that is dedicated to the defence of your realm?

It is sickening to those who actually give a shit about their realm when they arrive at Midgard with death message spam from Mazsola and Pin working their magic at Upplands X-roads (and they do it soooo well - /salutes guys ) or one or two FG invaders attacking a keep in our frontiers, to find the same people from the same guilds sitting on their arses at the telepad waiting to port to Emain for their daily rp fix. This was what the Call to Arms was designed to prevent amongst those in the alliance. Those outside can do what they chose to without critisism. Like I said earlier, you pays your money and choose to get from the game what you want.

And Vandgard?

"You can lead your guild however you see fit Killgorde, but this is an alliance, not a dictatorship with yourself as leader as you sometimes seem to want it to be... or then again maybe it is."

Firstly, I won't be around for much longer in any great degree because of the roll-out of the PvP server. On top of which i was approached by others to create this alliance against the wishes of the rest of my guild and to some degree myself. So kiss the "dictatorship" and "myself as leader" theories goodbye, m8. I'm a team player, not some individualist, as you may believe.

Secondly, this isn't some happy-clappy liberal left wing equalritesforgaysandlesbians <coughs> woolly-minded ban-blood-sports soft-as-shit alliance. It's for peeps who want to work as a team to kick the enemy's arse as and when they bare it in our frontiers (which we have done very well, thank you very much), nothing more and nothing less. It isn't what I decided, its what peeps in CE, Blizzard, Aesirs etc asked for at the very beginning. And it has delivered. Because in-game it's what those guilds wanted from the game - an extention of how CE played the game.

Yes this IS an alliance. But did you ask to join it? (as was the case with the 15 non-founder members who were on the outside looking in when we relaxed our membership policy) In which case it is for you to accept not what I believe, but what all founder member GM's believed is the right way. You use WR as an example and state that 5 members were actively participating. If that was the case WR has approximately 45 members at +45 (more than half of them 50). Did you actually read what I said about "the more each guild puts in, the less each guild has to put in by virtue of the workload being shared out." ??? Do the maths, m8.

This alliance has never been about quantity (i.e. attracting the guilds in the realm with the highest number of lvl 50's), it has been about quality (i.e. attracting those guilds, irrespective of size, who have a commitment and a belief in what we have and are achieving and the way we play. The size of the alliance is irrelevant, as long as the attitude of those in it is united. Whether this alliance has 2 members or 20, it matters not, as long as we abide by what we decided in the beginning and carry on kicking the invaders backside.

The core principles in the agreement are set in stone, and won't change. So basically, if you can't stand the heat (thankfully most of you can and /respect for that) get out of the kitchen to make way for others who like cooking. We play hard, we win hard (and quite often die hard )

 

[Garnet]

Originally posted by Killgorde
White Rose were not booted out of the alliance. White Rose took offence at comments (ill-judged and undiplomatic in their nature) made in /as and left. <slaps Garnet for not reading the thread properly >

Sorry but it was 6:30 AM when i posted that and didnt have time to read it all

 

[-fonS-]

I won't be around for much longer in any great degree because of the roll-out of the PvP server.

+

In the first instance to clarify that CE will as a guild participate on the server without neglecting our duties as loyal Middies as and when required for homeland defence.

im a little sleepy atm .. would u be so kind to clarify for me mr ?

 

[Hulbur]

White Rose were not booted out of the alliance. White Rose took offence at comments (ill-judged and undiplomatic in their nature) made in /as and left. <slaps Garnet for not reading the thread properly

NO!

On the day in question, the spam was worse the usual, and several of the members in WR were complaining and saying that they would now turn of /as chat.

I, as the only GM online, decided that instead of adding to the insults by asking people to "STFU" and so on, i would remove WR from the alliance untill measures could be taken to reduce the annoyance on the channel.

On announcing this, WR as a guild was slagged by a member of CE as being near to worthless anyway, and it would be no great loss if we left.

As to the rest of this thread, i have little to say. Killgorde and the MGC has done some fine work and true there may be guilds that do more then others. BUT, as I said when WR joined, the majority of guildmembers in OUR guild (knowing nothing about how other guilds) are not recruited or accepted on the basis of how much they do for the realm. So even though we know the basics on which the alliance was formed, I could not, and would not garanty that all WR members could live up to that code. There are some who find enjoyment in fighting hard and long in our frontier to "keep it safe" and there are those who find it much more fun to take the emain way each time. Every member in our guild is a member because they contribute to WR in some way, and are generally nice peeps to hang out with in /gu. If he/she sit on the pad to emain everytime a CE/Blizzard/aesir's member walks by on the way to AMG in Odin's, thats his/hers own god damn choice.

We are the (in numbers) a very big guild, and we have people who play the game very differently, but they are all White Roses and will not be forced by me or Kiranian or any GM/AS leader to play the game in a way they do not want to.

If you accept WR to your alliance, THAT is the deal you get. And i thought that was understood when we joined

I might just mention that we do also take an active part and i dare you to mention any major defencive/offencive manouver where there hasnt been WR players present. Maybe its "only" 3-4 of the 22 players we have online, but we are there.

If that was the case WR has approximately 45 members at +45 (more than half of them 50).

Aye maybe, but on any given weekday night, im hard pressed to c more then 10 45+ online at the same time.

This turned into more then I meant to say at first, and maybe in a more agressive tone, but so be it. I wish MCG all the same succes they have had so far, in the future.

 

[BlueJam]

Originally posted by Killgorde
The flames may have been uncalled for (and the offenders were severely bollocked) but if you read the agreement, ask yourself if they werent in some way justified.

Not really, when there is a real threat in borders you'll usually find a few WR out and about. What the people on /as failed to check was, at any one time there are only a few WR online.

Of the ones that are online, the ones capable of realm defence (40+ minimum by the agreements criteria) are even fewer.

The Guilds that were a large presence in the borders, seem to have high level players that are online when needed, we don't.

 

[Killgorde]

I have never levelled any critisism or singled any guild out personally for lack of commitment, Hulbur. But I will level critisism at you and the other seniors of WR for a different issue which led directly or indirectly to your guild's unfortunate departure. Namely that on the evening WR joined (the night after the successful MGC relic raid if I am not mistaken) I gave you personally a URL with instructions to register ASAP at a forum where the MGC agreement was posted, so you and your fellow seniors could access it (as with all the other guilds) to read and understand what you were committing to and relay that information to your members. Three days later and still no WR membership to that forum. I then PM'd Hildy in frustration and he eventually got you registered as a guild. Two weeks afterwards and a day after your guild left the alliance Kiranian PM'd me to discuss your departure, and at that time he, as GM of WR still hadn't seen this document. And if he hadn't, I sure as hell can't see how 90% of the other members in WR had. I have no personal problem with WR whether they are in this alliance or not, and you have a lot of fine peeps in your guild. But your channels of communication in-guild are chronic.

As to Blue and the PvP, the more I looked into the PvP server after that thread the more my opinion changed. The +100 mature experienced peeps from all realms that have so far registered an interest in (and the majority of them committing to after reading the proposal I sent them) what CE is planning there has reinforced this view. There are no more challenges left on this server for a lot of very apathetic people and the different format will hopefully be a breath of fresh air. I and my guildmates thrive on challenges and pushing the envelope (for that read prime time relic raids)...the tougher the better. We don't thrive on chaotic Emain zergs, which appears to what the majority of people on this server from all realms want and enjoy. If and when the RvR format matures and develops a true sense of direction and purpose (which I and my guildpeeps have endeavored and failed over the past few months to give it), we will possibly be around. And <coughs> there's always the possibility of a guild of 27 peeps logged out at a relic keep somewhere near you in the hope that the enemy may one day attack when we arent all tucked up in bed cuddling our teddy bears

 

[old.Vandgard]

So basically, if you can't stand the heat (thankfully most of you can and /respect for that) get out of the kitchen to make way for others who like cooking.

What are you implying? Sorry if not everyone matchs up to your high standards, but there are a large number of casual players who still want to do their best to help the realm, and being a part of MGC gives them the best opportunity to do this.

Perhaps if their was a viable alternative alliance then guilds wouldn't have been so desparate to join MGC, but their isn't.

And Killgorde, sorry if i came off so hostile, i've always admired CE and your dedication to the realm, but after spending two boring hours in odin's i didn't enjoy getting slagged off over /as for not doing enough to help.

It seems a shame that the WR members that had helped were flamed due to the seeming idleness of their guildmates.

 

[old.Buffer]

Originally posted by old.Vandgard


Perhaps if their was a viable alternative alliance then guilds wouldn't have been so desparate to join MGC, but their isn't.

Those guilds that joined MGC were directed to the alliance agreement. If they fail to read them then its not my, Killgordes, CE or MGC problem, merely that guilds problem

And Killgorde, sorry if i came off so hostile, i've always admired CE and your dedication to the realm, but after spending two boring hours in odin's i didn't enjoy getting slagged off over /as for not doing enough to help.

You spent 2 hours in odins? Ask cubby how many hours he spent there, try a factor of 15, as for myself and others in CE we spent a whole lot more than 2 hrs in odins

It seems a shame that the WR members that had helped were flamed due to the seeming idleness of their guildmates.

Then maybe thats a matter you should take up with your guildmates. If the cap fits wear it.

 

[old.Vandgard]

Those guilds that joined MGC were directed to the alliance agreement. If they fail to read them then its not my, Killgordes, CE or MGC problem, merely that guilds problem

Its not about failure to read the agreement, try reading what i wrote.

You spent 2 hours in odins? Ask cubby how many hours he spent there, try a factor of 15, as for myself and others in CE we spent a whole lot more than 2 hrs in odins

Good for you, give yourself a pat on the back and feel proud! Now if you'd read what id written and understood it to any degree, you'd know thats kinda what im getting at, im not gonna spend as much time in odin's simply cos i won't always feel like it, or im currently doing something which gives me more enjoyment (the midgard campaign event is a good example), or whatever, does that make me of less worth to the realm and the alliance?

I still put in hours and hours of time hunting down invaders in yggdra/uppland, popping back keeps etc.

And just fyi, two hours in odins in one day is alot for someone who has to work and sometimes only has afew hours to spend on his leisure activities, so get your facts straight mate, we're not all children here.

Then maybe thats a matter you should take up with your guildmates. If the cap fits wear it.

And now your just acting the twat. Im not WR but i sympathise with the members who enjoyed taking part in realm defence, but now rarely can because of the lack of intel.

 

[old.Rei Ayanami]

This isn't really any of my business. But WR came from an alliance where we tried to keep spam to a minimum. People left the NP alliance because Sub and me (i joined the discussion a little later) tried to convince people, Emain related stuff isn't in any interest of the alliance. The reason why we began telling ppl to be quiet is with too much spam people will turn off alliance chat and ignore important messages. People wanted to use Alliance chat for Emain related stuff, everyone left and from now on i'm not really familiar with the facts. But from what i've seen from Screenshots around i see an alliance with people discussing Malmo lists and non-alliance related topics. So from my point of view WR did what other guilds are probably holding quiet.
If i was to make an alliance i'd keep everything strictly RvR related (keep raids, relic raids (If i dared), scout reports), but not Emain stuff. But would you want an alliance where you get together prince, dragon and WoW hunts that's something you decide for yourself. Don't take this personal but i see CE as a guild where the main objective is RvR. So i don't understand why your would even have WoW/Dragon and prince hunts in the alliance chat since it's not even related with the idea you had about the idea. I've read your agreement and i'm fully aware that it's not your intention for people to do such things, but why don't you do something about it? People agreed to the rules but no one is reacting to them. So to flame WR (sorry everyone, but i that's how i see it) is probably the most stupid thing you could do.

Just 4 more things:
- I am NOT WR, but i agree with their decision
- I DON'T, and i repeat DON'T know all of the facts so i might be wrong about some things here. But i wrote this reply on the information i've got. So no flame please
- No long replys, i hate them even though this one seems pretty long
- I write first then think, so bear with me on the Typos

 

[old.Finster]

take Zarek as he is. and that s a fine warrior and tough gut fighter to the bone. and also he ll always be the rebel. no use trying to bind him to an organization, but you can try to hand him some rules to run over with his maverick ways.

/salute zarek. we never got along easily, but i always respect you.

Finster, <Nolby Pride>
Warlord retired

 

[Zarek Excalibur]

hehe Finster

no comment

Zarek

 

[Nightchill]

I have a vague nagging feeling to add something...

 

[kiranian-]

Well i just like to say that i think that we did enough to defend the realm we had ppl out there in the day time when most of CE is not online and we ALL defended the relic when we thought it was under attack and i was at countless amounts of forts defending them with a full group of roses so i know that we did enough.


I am not going to ask ppl in the guild that are playing alts and doing other things in daoc to kill themselfs to come back and defend the realm for a full group of albs cause they have ported over.


Why are we the only realm that does this you don't see the Hibs defending AMG and MMG they just let it happen the reason for this is cause they have better things to be done they know if a realm is going for a relic cause they will see all the forts go it does not take a genius to understand whats going on.


But i take my hat off to CE and blizzard and countless amounts of other guilds for camping these gates to prevent them coming in to Mid frontiers i really do think that you idea to stop them coming in from there is a great idea which is why i was there.


What i found wrong with the allaince was the constant spamming and mainly CE and blizzard bitching about all the rest of the guilds in the allaince for not defending the gates.


When there was clearly other guilds there but all the pludits went to CE and Blizzard well ppl use to bitch about how nolby use to get all the pludits but this is the same.


I admire killgorde and co for doing what they do but the allaince was not for us we are a guild that allows ppl to do what they want cause we are a freindly guild so if that means spending all there time in emain cause that is what they enjoy then so be it i will not flame or demand ppl to kill themselfs in emain to come back and run all the way to the otherside of the map to kill 1 or 2 full groups of mids/ hibs the game is meant to be fun but i soon found out after we joined the allaince that it was not for us but i thought that we would stick with it cause we really wanted to be part of the biggest allaince in mid as i thought that was the best way forward for mid to be united as a realm but sometimes it does not work and did not work in our case but i wish you all the best in the allaince i know that you do a good job defending the realm so i know we are in good hands.


On a personal note regarding a Hib relic that was attempted last week in the day time me and hildy was both at work and was not there to lead the army so before ppl getting pissed off and flaming ppl about it cause blah blah guild was not invited go elsewhere and point fingers and oh get your facts straight.


All the best

Kiranian

 

[Garnet]

White Rose Guildmaster

Kiranian Sexy 50th lvl dwarf



So true

 

[BlueJam]

I see the the word 'Alliance' as meaning two or more parties accepting each others ways, and then working together, not one member of the Alliance working up a set of rules and the rest of us abiding by them.

 

[Nightchill]

Did you read the posts above mate?

 

[BlueJam]

Don't give in to the vague nagging feeling next time.