metric vs imperial?

[tris-]

its common knowledge that in the UK our system is a big mess. weve got metric sales of petrol, but you drive your car along imperial measuresments of road. on the same line, we measure efficiency of a car in miles per gallon while filling it by the litre.
on road signs youve got mixtures of imperial and metric length measures.

people believe 'metrication' is a european thing with the EU forcing it on us to work in metric. i wonder if these people know that as far back as 1824, the government considered imperial to be old and dead. even since then and before the EU existed, there was talks to phase out imperial and bring metric in. you could even go back as far the late 1700s when it was argued that countries should standarise their systems.

so what are peoples problems then with going from imperial to metric? is it because imperial was around for centuries? does everyone think its just another EU thing getting forced on us? or is it just because the french developed the metric system and no one likes them?

personally i blame the hysteria on the government. theyve not done much to educate people about it and have taken too long to choose one thing over another.

 

[Lethul]

metric rules !

 

[tris-]

very insightful and well thought out.
im sure that point will advance the discussion beyond our comprehension.

 

[Scouse]

Frankly, I like imperial better. I like talking about miles rather than kilometers. I like talking in feet and inches. We measure our cocks in inches (or feet if you're lucky)

I've got a scientific degree and for all that stuff I can use metric. Imperial and metric live together nicely on packaging - so why do you want to kill imperial off? It's great!

 

[DaGaffer]

Cost. That's a shitload of roadsigns, maps, speedometers, documentation to change, and you can't really do it piecemeal (and I know countries like Australia had to do it, but the scale of the problem was much smaller). I think if there was a cheap way of bringing kilometers in, no-one could care that much; there would be the usual little Englander moaning and general bitching for a bit, but then we'd just deal with it like we do with most other things, but the initial chaos and cost may mean a change is permanently off the agenda.

Personally I find British measurement schizophrenia quite endearing. One of the things that makes us unique.

 

[Chilly]

metric is so much better than imperial for everything I've ever used it for, simply because base 10 calculations are easy and base 14 and 16 are not (oldies are good at both due to habit).

I'm quite good at both systems because I'm of the age where we used both in school, not just metric like people now so I can quite easily rattle off conversion factors for most of the common bits and my calculator has all the daft ones built in.

 

[tris-]

DaGaffer, dont you think then this is the govts fault for not doing it sooner rather than allowing 'periods' etc?

scouse: if you really like imperial, add in some mouthfuls, grains and perchs to mix it up a bit!

 

[Tom]

Try going to the woodyard and buying a bunch of 2x4 in metric.

 

[DaGaffer]

DaGaffer, dont you think then this is the govts fault for not doing it sooner rather than allowing 'periods' etc?

scouse: if you really like imperial, add in some mouthfuls, grains and perchs to mix it up a bit!

Of course it is. Actually every government since the war (at least), but its like switching to left hand drive, the longer you leave it, the more difficult it becomes.

 

[Furr]

Doesn't fuss me too much I use metric for most things but also imperial in other, Just a matter of knowing how to measure in both to be honest.

 

[Cadelin]

We don't use the imperial system as a system of measurements anymore. There are things with a pre-determined size which we continue to refer to with their imperial names.

For example a pint is easier to say than 568 ml. Changing the units we use doesn't mean we have to change the sizes of things to keep round numbers. Therefore it is sensible to keep using pints if that's the size of what we want. However when you need to measure an unknown amount of liquid such as when buying petrol the measurement is done in litres.

There are alot of things that we use today that happen to be a convenient size in imperial (like speed limits, building equipment) so we keep using that. It is very rare however for measurements to be made in imperial units. If you have a room that is 10 feet 2 inches by 16 feet 4 inches it is difficult to calculate how much carpet/tiles you need to cover it. Do it in metric and it is easy.

 

[leviathane]

Born in oz, growing up in uk i have no problem with either system. Personally i don't think uk could effectively convert to metric due to the shear costs/effort needed. The current system is so entwined into our current society i don't personally see a problem. Unless ofc your working with yanks and both of you work in your own units.

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

who gives a fuck anyway.....


credit crunch shit should be bothering you more than if the road signs in miles or km

 

[tris-]

We don't use the imperial system as a system of measurements anymore. .

go out anywhere and look at just about everything, metric and imperial is used together.
maybe youre getting confused with the legal aspect? legally a trader can only sell the public in metric, with the noteable exception of pints, half pints and 1/3 pints for beer, lager and cider. trade equipment can only measure in metric too (again except beet meters).
iirc, there is now an 'indefinate' amount of time in which goods can be displayed in imperial units. although there is still rules for that: the metric weight and price must be more prominent than the imperial. and then ofcourse, must be sold by the metric unit. you can still see on small bottles of milk there is the metric amount of 568ml, and in less prominent display - '1pint'

credit crunch shit should be bothering you more than if the road signs in miles or km

why should it?
who said im bothered either, im just trying to initiate some discussion to get ideas flowing.

 

[dysfunction]

Try going to the woodyard and buying a bunch of 2x4 in metric.

you would by a 5x10 instead in metric - what's difficult about that? Yes you may lose the odd decimal point here or there but that's not a big problem if everything is being measured in metric.

I much prefer a metric system its so much easier to work things out.

I would like everything changed to metric.

 

[Bodhi]

I say keep imperial. I'm not going up to the bar and asking for 568ml of Heineken, and 0-60 sounds far more normal than 0-100. Wouldn't it also mean we have to get rid of the useful units as well, like bhp and lb/ft?

Bollocks to that. You can stick your kW and Nm up your arse.

 

[Cadelin]

go out anywhere and look at just about everything, metric and imperial is used together.

That is irrelevant. When we have an unknown quantity that we are trying to measure, metric is the only system used.

As I have said we still see imperial units because they refer to convenient quantities such as a pint. Just because we change our units doesn't mean we have to change the quantities we use and saying 1 pint is alot easier than saying 568 ml.

I say keep imperial. I'm not going up to the bar and asking for 568ml of Heineken, and 0-60 sounds far more normal than 0-100.

In both of those examples you aren't actually using the imperial or metric system. They are just pre-defined quantities. You can use the metric system and still call your drink a pint.

 

[Raven]

I have no idea in my head how long a kilometre actually is, though I can picture how far a mile is. I was taught to cook by my mum using imperial measurements, pounds ounces etc and taught to build shit by my granddad using imperial measurements inches, feet, yards etc. Its odd though, with temperature I use Celsius in the winter and Fahrenheit in the summer. I like to buy a pint in the pub, not 500 ml, I like a quarter pounder burger, not whatever crap is the alternative burger.

For me its what I can relate to. I have nothing against metric but I know where I am with imperial.

 

[tris-]

That is irrelevant. .

no its not. its actually part of the point in my origional post.
its completley relevant to what im talking about.

but obviously not relevant to what youre talking about. and what youre talking about isnt what im talking about.

growing up i was confused quite often because of the dual use of imperial and metric in everyday life. i was measuring in feet AND cm untill one day my dad explained you cant do that. i.e. 5ft and 2cm. when its either ft and inches or meter and cm.

 

[Dukat]

I think you're right tris, I think it would be alot easier if everything was metric, we would all find things alot easier if everything was in metric because things would line up - as you say, we currently find something as easy as calculating fuel consumption difficult because of the way we blend metric and imperial measurements.

All that said, metric is french and thus shit, so vive la imperial measurements!

 

[tris-]

In both of those examples you aren't actually using the imperial or metric system. [..] a pint.

but the pint IS the imperial system. the pint is an imperial quantity and its defind as so in the weights and measures act 1985, schedule 3, part 4 'capacity measures: imperial system". along with pint you also had fluid ounces, gill and quart. so by definition in law, using the pint is using the imperial system. and the only thing you can sell by the pint is beer, lager and cider. so i could not sell a pint of milk, but i can sell 568ml. i could not say to someone if i was a shop owner "would you like to buy a pint of milk".
equally in a pub you couldnt sell a gills worth of vodka to someone, and something measuring in a gill is also illegal for use in trade. the capacity measure would have to physically measure in ml. but as it is, you can only sell vodka in 25, 35ml and multiples there of.

the 'pinte' and 'half pinte' from what i can find were brought into use by charless II in 1670.

 

[Tom]

you would by a 5x10 instead in metric - what's difficult about that? Yes you may lose the odd decimal point here or there but that's not a big problem if everything is being measured in metric.

I much prefer a metric system its so much easier to work things out.

I would like everything changed to metric.

So how would you fit your 5x10 piece of wood into a house built 50 years ago?

 

[sayward]

It's odd but I use both depending on what I'm doing. Except I've never learnt to cook in metric, probably because all my Mum's old recipes are in pounds and ounces.

 

[tris-]

So how would you fit your 5x10 piece of wood into a house built 50 years ago?

yeh i dont think its as simple as dysfunction says.
as an inch is defined as 2.54cm
so in a metric equivalent youd have to ask for 5.4x10.16!

 

[DaGaffer]

I have no idea in my head how long a kilometre actually is, though I can picture how far a mile is. I was taught to cook by my mum using imperial measurements, pounds ounces etc and taught to build shit by my granddad using imperial measurements inches, feet, yards etc. Its odd though, with temperature I use Celsius in the winter and Fahrenheit in the summer. I like to buy a pint in the pub, not 500 ml, I like a quarter pounder burger, not whatever crap is the alternative burger.

For me its what I can relate to. I have nothing against metric but I know where I am with imperial.

You see I can't picture that. I routinely switch from one method to another depending on the circumstance and just do the calculation in my head as I go along. I treat it the way I would a currency conversion when I'm on holiday. I think its partly because I did an apprenticeship a million years ago and when I was working in the Design Office at BAe I had to work on old designs in Imperial (e.g. Sea Harrier) and new ones in Metric (Hawk), often moving from one area to the other and back again.

The temperature thing is pretty normal as well; I often think we work with whichever measurement is the more dramatic/memorable rather than accurate.

 

[bob269]

Milkmen (or milkwomen) sell pints, most supermarkets these days sell 1 or 1/2 litre cartons or plastic bottles.

 

[throdgrain]

Metric is for gays and children.


WHICH ONE ARE YOU?

 

[Trem]

I fear and hate change.

Why the fuck do we have to change our measurements?

Worked perfectly well before.

 

[tris-]

Milkmen (or milkwomen) sell pints, most supermarkets these days sell 1 or 1/2 litre cartons or plastic bottles.

fruit juice, lemonade and milk can be sold in pints if its in a returnable bottle.

goes to show the government are keeping some tradition and legally allowing but people still moan that 'it takes away our history'

I fear and hate change.

Why the fuck do we have to change our measurements?

Worked perfectly well before.

do you see this as something recent?

there is evidence out there that theyve been trying to do it for 300 years. if the government didnt keep fannying about none of us no would of known any difference.

heres an example of it going out of control
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7658669.stm

the main identifable problem is ultimatley there her equipment wasnt stamped.
yes it was imperial and wasnt duel marked but the equipment was not stamped.

yet somehow she is blowing out of proportion saying its all this metrication shit and that everyone in london is doing the same thing.
i doubt they are.

 

[Cadelin]

but the pint IS the imperial system.

There is a big difference between the system and the units. We use exclusively the metric system nowadays. If you have to make a measurement you do it in metric.

As I have said before there are certain quantities such as 1 pint that are convenient to use. However just because you order a pint of beer doesn't mean you are using the imperial system. It would be like saying somebody can count because they can say the number 1.