Mercs any good for RvR?

[xaeron]

Hiya - going to be starting a DaoC character soon and was wondering if Mercs are good for RvR?

I want to be melee and doing the actual killing I guess - also like duel wielding Is this the right class?

Thanks for any help!

 

[behatch]

make savage or zerk and get moaned at make sure u make sv on pryd tho ^^

 

[behatch]

nm forgot zerk got nerfed

 

[gwal]

Originally posted by xaeron
Hiya - going to be starting a DaoC character soon and was wondering if Mercs are good for RvR?

I want to be melee and doing the actual killing I guess - also like duel wielding Is this the right class?

Thanks for any help!

if u want to play albion, merc is an excellent class

 

[samildanachh]

but reaver is better/more fun
and there is less of us around

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

Originally posted by samildanachh
but reaver is better/more fun
and there is less of us around

and don´t have determination... :/

 

[old.Ramas]

Det nerf inc imo. So personally I wouldn't base your character decision on the prescence of Det.

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
Det nerf inc imo.

Personally I think they'd have to improve casters rather than nerf Det, since Det was added to prevent the situation where tanks were simply neutralised and took no part in fights other than to stand there and get nuked.

If Det were to be nerfed to any significant degree, a hefty nerf to caster classes would no doubt be called for in it's wake...

Then we just end up going around in a circle of nerfs...

 

[Flimgoblin]

low levels of det are essential for a tank, the game's just stupid without it.

high levels of det make them uncontrollable...
I'd say either cap det at level 3, or make it go up in 10% so you end up with current (ish) det 3 at level 5

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by alithiel50
Personally I think they'd have to improve casters rather than nerf Det, since Det was added to prevent the situation where tanks were simply neutralised and took no part in fights other than to stand there and get nuked.

If Det were to be nerfed to any significant degree, a hefty nerf to caster classes would no doubt be called for in it's wake...

Then we just end up going around in a circle of nerfs...

60% magic-resists
Ignore Pain
Prevent Flight
Determination
Cheap Purge
Baseline stat-enhancers and specline stat-enhancers
Interrupts
Alchemy charges


The list goes on and on..

 

[old.Ramas]

If Det were to be nerfed to any significant degree, a hefty nerf to caster classes would no doubt be called for in it's wake...

Thing is casters *were* nerfed at the same time as det went in by the introduction of significant magic resists. So I don't think it's fair to say that even the removal of det would take us as far back as the time when casters pwned tanks 100% of the time (v1.49ish). Tanks would still have an effective 40% det from resistances and casters would still be hitting for 300 on targets that can be expected to have gone through over 3000 HP before they will die (through heals and/or IP).

I do tend to agree though, that if the det rework hits at the same time as the magic resistance rework which is also being talked about, then there is a risk that casters start being overpowered at least to the degree tanks are today. Ho hum.

As suggetsed above, I'd have thought the reduction of det to 10% per level would be the simplest and most likely outcome of any review.

-----

On the original question though, yes mercs are good in RvR.

Thrust mercs specifically are FoTM right now.

 

[Jiggs]

when will people realise determination isnt the issue

ae mezz is the issue.

the only reason determination is desirable is because ae mezz is ridiculously overpowered (consider how vital it is to 'land mezz' in a fight)

 

[old.Ramas]

Well that's true - but Mythic won't dare touch cc with a bargepole.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by alithiel50
Personally I think they'd have to improve casters rather than nerf Det, since Det was added to prevent the situation where tanks were simply neutralised and took no part in fights other than to stand there and get nuked.

On the other hand, no one but the most stubborn-headed tanks could disagree with the fact it is the continuous nerfing of CC that has made the game into the tankalot it is today. Virtually unmezzable tank at RR3? Come on.

Then we just end up going around in a circle of nerfs...

And you are seriously saying this is not the case already?

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Jiggs
when will people realise determination isnt the issue

ae mezz is the issue.

the only reason determination is desirable is because ae mezz is ridiculously overpowered (consider how vital it is to 'land mezz' in a fight)

Well, with the way the game is coded at the moment, once an enemy tank gets into melee range of a caster, it's game over for the caster. AoE mezz is the only thing that makes it feasible for casters to get to work, what with speed 6 and ridiculous resistances. So yes, I would agree that Determination was one of those band-aids that Mythic added to fix a deeper issue (AoE CC).

In some ways, CC is also one of those band-aids, and it was added to fix the issue of having some way of protecting the support in a group. Ideally, CC would be removed in favor of collision detection, allowing tanks to shield their support and casters with their bodies, maybe even "tackle" an enemy hitting a caster so that he is pushed out of melee range.

 

[bahamuts]

imo interupt is great. would be something wrong if casters could beat tanks in melee

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by bahamuts
imo interupt is great. would be something wrong if casters could beat tanks in melee

the interupt system atm is a pile of crap, you can basicly neutralize a caster without having to cast any cc on them and disable their only form of defence AND dmg (unless you get a RA like moc, wich grants you 15 seconds of no interupts every 30mins, and then theres stil amnesia).

so try and imagine a tank that gets interupted, and you can basicly stand around doing 0 dmg, sounds like fun huh?

 

[Belomar]

What Sharpo said. Anyone saying the interrupt system is fine needs to get their head examined -- even a hybrid or tank should be able to see this.

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing

so try and imagine a tank that gets interupted, and you can basicly stand around doing 0 dmg, sounds like fun huh?

Sound like stacked PBT

There are ways to neutralise tanks, I don't think the problem is tanks in general but the ability for tanks to assist in order to circumvent these protective measures.

The to-hit bonus with multiple attackers needs reversing, for every additional attacker, each attacker should get a penalty to hit (In RvR only of course ). I think this would introduce much more fun to the game, fights would last longer and a little more thought would be required (rather than /assist /stick /style). Guarding a caster with a shield would be more effective, PBT would be more effective (Thought stacking should then be removed) etc etc...

Talifer

 

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by bahamuts
imo interupt is great. would be something wrong if casters could beat tanks in melee

The problem is not that tanks beat casters in melee. The problem is that casters cannot hope to do anything at all while someone is in melee range. And casters cannot hope to do anything at all if almost any class in the game has them targetted even at 1000 range or higher, since everyone has ranged 100% chance interrupts now, and insta ones more often than not.

Classes with insta ranged interrupt that spring immeaditely to mind are Paladins, Friars, Reavers, Minstrels, Cabalists, Necromancers, Champions, Valewalkers, Animists, Bards, Druids, Chanters, NShades, Thanes, Healers, Skalds, Bonedancers, and naturally Savages. Include RAs and you can add wardens, wizards, sorcerors, shamen and various others. I guess casters are uber so long they remain at range at don't run into any of these classes

The fact that melee dps is much higher than caster dps is currently enough to guarantee victory in melee range, though I accept that in better times for casters, some interrupts have been necessary, even 70-80% of casts failing would be reasonable, but 100% interrupts seems a bit daft.

And the way I see it you can't simulateneously make a case that melee players should always be likely to get into melee range so they can do something (through det and resists) while also claiming melee have to win 100% of the time within melee range (through interrupts).

The argument has always been that it's logical for casters to be distracted by large axes swinging at them.

Maybe it's time for melee characters to get distracted when someone stuffs a fireball up their ass.

I suspect it would distract me.

 

[gwal]

Originally posted by Talifer


The to-hit bonus with multiple attackers needs reversing, for every additional attacker, each attacker should get a penalty to hit (In RvR only of course ). I think this would introduce much more fun to the game, fights would last longer and a little more thought would be required (rather than /assist /stick /style). Guarding a caster with a shield would be more effective, PBT would be more effective (Thought stacking should then be removed) etc etc...

Talifer

u just might wanna think about that one more time, sounds more like a vn-board idea than a well thought out proposal.... try to take an hour or 2, and put some thought into it, then tell me if u still think that or not.

 

[old.Downanael]

Originally posted by old.Ramas

Thrust mercs specifically are FoTM right now.

Dunno who started that rumor but last time i looked on duskwave mercs were 3th place from end at "How many lvl 50", rises 1 step with how many mercs overall with no levels counted It bit slow on updates but dont see it chances that much on few weeks.


If you want to solo on RvR never ever made a merc as they pretty bad on that,could recommend reaver for that job. But if you want to be a group boy make a mercenary

 

[K0nah]

Yes.

and they always have been

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by old.Downanael
Dunno who started that rumor but last time i looked on duskwave mercs were 3th place from end at "How many lvl 50", rises 1 step with how many mercs overall with no levels counted

HAHA, Dira, you Fotm!

 

[old.Downanael]

Originally posted by Belomar
HAHA, Dira, you Fotm!

I know If i would start again i would roll Reaver instead mercenary thought.

 

[Deletium]

Stun a Moccing caster and hes over.. 9 sec stun from a mincer off the 14 sec moc.. not a lot of casting he will be doing..

 

[Belomar]

That's why you have purge.

 

[Vasconcelos]

And its not even 9 sec after body resists check.....

 

[blademistress]

Originally posted by K0nah
Yes.

and they always have been

So true so true