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old.Sko
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I`m interested in seeing logs of fights with infi-merc template. Can someone kindly provide me with such, since my char is located on Prydwen and i cannot test the spec myself ;(
A
**Aligro**
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- #2
hehe, not a log but from what i can remember. Merc against Blademaster.
:You target Talivar
:You enter combat mode with Talivar.
:You prepare to perform Dual Shadows
:Talivar attacks you with his sickle for 78 damage
:Talivar attacks you with his sword for 81 damage
:you perform Dual Shadows perfectly (+161)
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 86 (-7) damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 82 (-4) damage
:Talvivar is bleeding.
:Talivar attack you with his sickle and you parry.
:You prepare to perform Reflection.
:You hit Talivar for an extra 6 damage
:Talivar attacks you with his sword for 92 damage
:You perform Reflection perfectly (+101)
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 91 (-1) damage
:You prepare to perform Hypnotic Darkness
:Talivar attacks you with his sickle for 82 damage
:Talivar attacks you with his sword for 89 damage
:You hit Talivar for an extra 6 damage
:You perform Hypnotic Darkness perfectly (+146)
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 92 (-2) damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 87 (-5) damage
:Talivar cannot seem to move
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 76 (-9) damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 88 (-1) damage
:You hit Talivar for an extra 6 damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 91 (-4) damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 85 (-1) damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 96 (-1) damage
:You hit Talivar for an extra 6 damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 87 (-9) damage
So forth and so forth
:Talivar casts a spell (IP)
:You cast Rain of Fire
:Talivar hits you with his sickle for 87
:Talivar hits you with his sword for 87
:You were just killed by Talivar, you died fighting for your realm and lose no experience
:Type /release to return to your last bind point.
You gotta love the uber stun
:You target Talivar
:You enter combat mode with Talivar.
:You prepare to perform Dual Shadows
:Talivar attacks you with his sickle for 78 damage
:Talivar attacks you with his sword for 81 damage
:you perform Dual Shadows perfectly (+161)
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 86 (-7) damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 82 (-4) damage
:Talvivar is bleeding.
:Talivar attack you with his sickle and you parry.
:You prepare to perform Reflection.
:You hit Talivar for an extra 6 damage
:Talivar attacks you with his sword for 92 damage
:You perform Reflection perfectly (+101)
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 91 (-1) damage
:You prepare to perform Hypnotic Darkness
:Talivar attacks you with his sickle for 82 damage
:Talivar attacks you with his sword for 89 damage
:You hit Talivar for an extra 6 damage
:You perform Hypnotic Darkness perfectly (+146)
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 92 (-2) damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 87 (-5) damage
:Talivar cannot seem to move
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 76 (-9) damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 88 (-1) damage
:You hit Talivar for an extra 6 damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 91 (-4) damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 85 (-1) damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 96 (-1) damage
:You hit Talivar for an extra 6 damage
:You attack Talivar with your axe and hit for 87 (-9) damage
So forth and so forth
:Talivar casts a spell (IP)
:You cast Rain of Fire
:Talivar hits you with his sickle for 87
:Talivar hits you with his sword for 87
:You were just killed by Talivar, you died fighting for your realm and lose no experience
:Type /release to return to your last bind point.
You gotta love the uber stun
F
-frostor-
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- #3
i think he means an infil with 50 DW
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Pin
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- #4
There'll probably be about 10 testing the spec tonight (but probably not me).
N
)nick(
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- #5
I've just had a chance to test it out a little bit on gorre, although I must say I've had ridiculous ping times so the styles are going all wrong at the moment.
Anyway, I miss the CS evade chain quite a bit. DF does more damage than Dark tendrils so I just spam that after DF lands. Dual Shadows is not even CLOSE to the damage of DoubleFrost. To be quite honest as of now I'm dissapointed with the spec. Dual Shadows was supposed to make or break the spec and for me it kinda trashed it.
Those are just my initial ramblings and keep in mind most of it was spoilt by the lag as I never ever ever miss a DF after an evade with my cable connection, and now with dodger 5 I think I'm hitting DF once every 5 fights.
Anyway, I miss the CS evade chain quite a bit. DF does more damage than Dark tendrils so I just spam that after DF lands. Dual Shadows is not even CLOSE to the damage of DoubleFrost. To be quite honest as of now I'm dissapointed with the spec. Dual Shadows was supposed to make or break the spec and for me it kinda trashed it.
Those are just my initial ramblings and keep in mind most of it was spoilt by the lag as I never ever ever miss a DF after an evade with my cable connection, and now with dodger 5 I think I'm hitting DF once every 5 fights.
B
belth
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- #6
I'd post logs if my ISP hadn't fooked up last night, only got to do maybe 5 or 6 duels after which no connection outside my providers intranet. Blegh. On top of that I messed up half my duels by doing Dual Shadows with Dragonfang as back up due to them being the other way around on my quickbar than the usual Obscure/Dragonfang or Tranquilize/Dragonfang. Grr.
O
osrim
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- #7
About DW50 spec
Ye, i did test DW50 too.
Went pure DW 50 template,
Stealth 33,
Cs 2,
Env 34,
Thrust 50,
DW 50
MOST impressive style I tested was Dragonfang, it was love in first hit.
I cursed myself long cause I havent had it but sure thing is I will have it, when I do respec.
Im not really convinced about leaving CS line, Dualshadows wasnt SO great. My Dual shadows cap damage was 339 btw with crafted gladius. Offhander hitted much more offen when using DS move.
I won mostly my fights with SB's and NS's, some shield tanks caused really trouble with shield stun. :/
Still thinking choices...and testing at Gorre.
Ye, i did test DW50 too.
Went pure DW 50 template,
Stealth 33,
Cs 2,
Env 34,
Thrust 50,
DW 50
MOST impressive style I tested was Dragonfang, it was love in first hit.
I cursed myself long cause I havent had it but sure thing is I will have it, when I do respec. Im not really convinced about leaving CS line, Dualshadows wasnt SO great. My Dual shadows cap damage was 339 btw with crafted gladius. Offhander hitted much more offen when using DS move.
I won mostly my fights with SB's and NS's, some shield tanks caused really trouble with shield stun. :/
Still thinking choices...and testing at Gorre.
N
)nick(
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- #8
I'll post plenty of logs tonight after work. I've tested the spec till 4 in the morning and I must say it's ok, but not great.
1) Dual Shadows is a terrible level 50 style. Very strange how this is the only style in DW with a defensive penalty aswell.
2) Obscure is a good replacement for Tranq, high bonus to defense versus medium bonus to defense respectively. Although I think I'd prefer using Tranq/Wyvern to Obscure/Dual Shadows.
3) There's no doubt that there is quite a large damage increase over my old 17 DW + DR 2 + 9 Items.
Versus SZ's or High RR 5-Specs SBs or NS' its basically who gets in stun style first, which was me 8/10 of the time. But this is duels RVR will be completely different.
1) Dual Shadows is a terrible level 50 style. Very strange how this is the only style in DW with a defensive penalty aswell.
2) Obscure is a good replacement for Tranq, high bonus to defense versus medium bonus to defense respectively. Although I think I'd prefer using Tranq/Wyvern to Obscure/Dual Shadows.
3) There's no doubt that there is quite a large damage increase over my old 17 DW + DR 2 + 9 Items.
Versus SZ's or High RR 5-Specs SBs or NS' its basically who gets in stun style first, which was me 8/10 of the time. But this is duels RVR will be completely different.
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Flimgoblin
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- #9
Dual shadows does more than amethyst slash for less endurance so it's a nice mercenary spell...
I guess not so good for infiltrators from your comments
alas, nothing gets near the damage that left axe does... ridiculous style bonuses.
The best style-chain in DW is reflection/hypnotic darkness, which is based off a parry and useless for infiltrators... I think left axe has some nice evade-reactionaries?
The "uber" infil seems to require Dragonfang these days...
so it's a nice mercenary spell...I guess not so good for infiltrators from your comments
alas, nothing gets near the damage that left axe does... ridiculous style bonuses.
The best style-chain in DW is reflection/hypnotic darkness, which is based off a parry and useless for infiltrators... I think left axe has some nice evade-reactionaries?
The "uber" infil seems to require Dragonfang these days...
A
Aussie-
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- #10
well I saw my brother ninjastyle in action last night. with the lvl 50 DW style he did ~240 mainhand on chain chars.
Shadowzerk fights were very close
i wanne see how he rapes them with bufffffffffffs
only thing you'll prolly need is purge. since you cant kills casters in a few hits anymore you'll be QC stunned fast and nuked to dead :>
Shadowzerk fights were very close
i wanne see how he rapes them with bufffffffffffs
only thing you'll prolly need is purge. since you cant kills casters in a few hits anymore you'll be QC stunned fast and nuked to dead :>
A
alarkin
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- #11
So are you going for that specc or was the damage output to bad ? Wanted to test it out also but im on prydwen. post logs tonight
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old.LandShark
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- #12
Comments here....
Dual Shadows was never claimed to be even close to doublefrost. DF uses at least twice the endurance however, slightly more in fact. Also, no-one ever claimed that DS 'made' the spec.
You should be thinking of a merciltrator as a mercenary with envenom, mediocre stealth and evade7+9sec stun, instead of chain and about 300-400 extra hit points.
Rather than thinking of it as a traditional infiltrator with doublefrost and uber offhand swing chance.... cos that just isn't the case.
Fingoniel (and any others interested ^^): LA's main styles are doublefrost, which sucks end madly but is ridiuclously damaging, the comeback->frosty gaze chain, which is a 6sec stun and great damage off of an evade, and the snowsquall->ice brilliance chain which is back-positional and again, great damage.
Again, the main reason why LA-spec shadowblade is better than a DW-spec inf, is that LA works totally differently.
LA always swings both weapons.
LA swings the 2 weaps at the AVERAGE of their two speeds, but calculates the mainhand's damage as if it was it's own speed, rather than the average...
i.e. Average speed of your 2 weaps is 2.5, but your mainhander hits like a 4.2spd (double axe is 4.2spd i think?) weapon. Dunno what the damage of the offhander is based on, presumably also it's own (faster) spd...
Dual Shadows was never claimed to be even close to doublefrost. DF uses at least twice the endurance however, slightly more in fact. Also, no-one ever claimed that DS 'made' the spec.
You should be thinking of a merciltrator as a mercenary with envenom, mediocre stealth and evade7+9sec stun, instead of chain and about 300-400 extra hit points.
Rather than thinking of it as a traditional infiltrator with doublefrost and uber offhand swing chance.... cos that just isn't the case.
Fingoniel (and any others interested ^^): LA's main styles are doublefrost, which sucks end madly but is ridiuclously damaging, the comeback->frosty gaze chain, which is a 6sec stun and great damage off of an evade, and the snowsquall->ice brilliance chain which is back-positional and again, great damage.
Again, the main reason why LA-spec shadowblade is better than a DW-spec inf, is that LA works totally differently.
LA always swings both weapons.
LA swings the 2 weaps at the AVERAGE of their two speeds, but calculates the mainhand's damage as if it was it's own speed, rather than the average...
i.e. Average speed of your 2 weaps is 2.5, but your mainhander hits like a 4.2spd (double axe is 4.2spd i think?) weapon. Dunno what the damage of the offhander is based on, presumably also it's own (faster) spd...
N
)nick(
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- #13
I know chera. What I am saying for an infil is that the only reason for speccing to 50 would be for the 50 style, which in this case imo isn't worth it unless you're going to be buffed to the max and defensive penalties don't bother you. Infils need defense bonus to get off dragonfang which is their saving grace.
So imo it would be worth taking a high DW spec such as 30 or such and still keep your caster killing CS abilities.
So imo it would be worth taking a high DW spec such as 30 or such and still keep your caster killing CS abilities.
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Flimgoblin
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- #14
You'd also dual-attack more often so more likely to get those poisons applied...
another advantage to LA for shadowblades - always attacks with the left hand weapon, so more likely to get your poison.
so more likely to get those poisons applied...another advantage to LA for shadowblades - always attacks with the left hand weapon, so more likely to get your poison.
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old.Sko
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- #15
Originally posted by Aussie-
well I saw my brother ninjastyle in action last night. with the lvl 50 DW style he did ~240 mainhand on chain chars.
Shadowzerk fights were very close
i wanne see how he rapes them with bufffffffffffs
only thing you'll prolly need is purge. since you cant kills casters in a few hits anymore you'll be QC stunned fast and nuked to dead :>
Can you please tell what weapon was used ?
N
)nick(
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- #16
mainhand - 99% Rapier, 3.2 spd, 15.7 effective dps
offhand - Stilleto of the Soulshade, 2.9 spd, 15.4 effective dps
offhand - Stilleto of the Soulshade, 2.9 spd, 15.4 effective dps
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old.Sko
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- #17
Seems people are pretty conservative about offhander
Though a quality of discussion would be improved great if several logs, with addition of stats and weapons used will be posted.
Though a quality of discussion would be improved great if several logs, with addition of stats and weapons used will be posted.
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Pin
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- #18
Originally posted by Fingoniel
You'd also dual-attack more often
Huge case of diminishing returns. Leave DW at ~30 and you can still get 39CS. I think the 10% chance difference from 30-50DW is shit compared to PA, CD, SS, Ham, Leaper (and Rib for my temp).
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Pin
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- #19
Hmmm. I'd be interested to hear what rate you actually hit with your offhander (rather than swing). If you've got logs could you check swings, misses, evades, blocks, parries, etc... If I use my soulshade I hit <50% of my offhand swings against people in epic (thus use King's Nail and just have Soulshade as backup poison).
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Flimgoblin
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- #20
indeed
N
)nick(
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- #21
I have massive amounts of logs on my other pc at home so I'll go through them once I get home. I've had a period where I just kept switching between kings nail and both prince thrusters but I prefer the soulshade as it procs more often and bt is a huge help, the bonus difference is negligible.
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Pin
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- #22
Originally posted by Fingoniel
Dual shadows does more than amethyst slash for less endurance
I guess not so good for infiltrators from your comments
Anything with a defensive penalty is bad for Infis. Low hit points and leather-clad. If we don't evade, we die.
Reflection/Hypnotic Darkness are out for infis. But I'd be interested in the damage from Flank/Shadow's Rain (side positional chain) though. Both medium damage, and both with bonus to defense. I still expect damage from Hamstring and Leaper to be better (based off evade, and both having bonus to defense aswell).
F
Flimgoblin
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- #23
coo, never noticed the bonus to defence on flank/shadows reign...
flank does about the same as amethyst with an attack speed debuff (or is it a snare...) maybe slightly more... not really paid it enough attention.
shadows reign does more... and has the effect the flank doesn't have
(not that those effects ever work break on offhand hit )
Also, DW style damage seems to be based on spec.... which means at 30 dw you lose out on damage
Be nice to see how the stun combo followed by flank/shadows reign does (apparently you can use this before 1.54, just that you can't see which way your opponent is facing... i.e. if you stun them then move behind them, even if they turn round it treats them as facing the other way...)
flank does about the same as amethyst with an attack speed debuff (or is it a snare...) maybe slightly more... not really paid it enough attention.
shadows reign does more... and has the effect the flank doesn't have
(not that those effects ever work
break on offhand hit )Also, DW style damage seems to be based on spec.... which means at 30 dw you lose out on damage
Be nice to see how the stun combo followed by flank/shadows reign does (apparently you can use this before 1.54, just that you can't see which way your opponent is facing... i.e. if you stun them then move behind them, even if they turn round it treats them as facing the other way...)
V
Vasconcelos
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- #24
I have a 50th merc and a 47th infil, i think respeccing infil to DW is not worth enuf as the only style nice of DW is the combo Reflection+Hypnothic, Dual Shadows damage sux, and if you are 50 Thruster u got DF as a better stun style. Moreover, when i play with my merc i can do more damage with Diamond Slash and no need to be in front of enemy as DS needs.
However, spending points in DW with your infil is basic as i think, with my infil now i got 23+11 in DW and i usually hit with the 2 weapons. Considering i´m 47th and i got Maestry of Pain II, i can PA a 50th caster for 2/3 of life easily when i hit with my 2 weapons, but of course need to be 50th to test it properly with other enemies.
In my opinion no matter how many points you spend in DW, u will never equal the damage of a shadowzerker coz Left Axe style works diferent. I think DF is the only thing you got as lifeguard when u combat sbs.
However, spending points in DW with your infil is basic as i think, with my infil now i got 23+11 in DW and i usually hit with the 2 weapons. Considering i´m 47th and i got Maestry of Pain II, i can PA a 50th caster for 2/3 of life easily when i hit with my 2 weapons, but of course need to be 50th to test it properly with other enemies.
In my opinion no matter how many points you spend in DW, u will never equal the damage of a shadowzerker coz Left Axe style works diferent. I think DF is the only thing you got as lifeguard when u combat sbs.
T
Tranquil-
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- #25
The right RA spec has alot to say aswell, MoP is a significant part of what deals damage from a mercfiltrator.
C
Cabo-
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- #26
post about to topic, might me more if you read of board.
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=37143050&replies=247
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=37143050&replies=247
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old.Sko
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- #27
The most interesting page is 9. Greydark (actually godfather of dw template) finally posted log
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Pin
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- #28
Originally posted by old.Sko
The most interesting page is 9. Greydark (actually godfather of dw template) finally posted log
And reading the log, his lefthand swing is evaded/blocked/parried/misses well over 50%
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old.Sko
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- #29
Aye, but seeing 200ish damage from main-hand where i usually get like 100-150 ...
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Pin
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- #30
Damage seems about the same (a couple of % higher) as I get on Dragonfang, and less than I get on Hamstring, Leaper (both giving defensive bonus) and Rib Separation. I'm not too impressed
Oh. What are you playing for your 100-150?