Melee Scout Questions

[Danamyr]

I really CBA with Archery on my Scout any more. I am going to make him full melee.

I am struggling a bit with a few decisions, and I'd be very grateful for some advice.

The spec I am looking at is 50 Weapon, 47 Shield and 35 Stealth. At RR9 the points from lowering Stealth will mean I can raise Shield so it's naturally 50.

With which damage type will I do the most damage? Slash or Thrust?

Which damage type will be best for solo? If I went Slash I'd simply spam Amy and then Diamond Slash styles, but I have no idea about Thrust as I've never had a toon specced in it.

Following on from that, what weapon would be best to use for each damage type? I won't be using Malice any more because it's just crap now since the nerf.

LGWs for both? CW for Slash or perhaps GS for Thrust?

TIA.

 

[Lorimez Shadowblade]

From my perspective, if you've got a good dex then go Thrust - if you do happen to evade at level 50 you have DF but then again you've got slam anyhows.

I've tried playing a melee scout and they just don't cut it compared to the mid/hibs

Anyhows good luck in trying it out - I'm going to keep mine for keep defences and no more

/bow

 

[aika]

dont bother, I tried playing on a rr7 melee scout the other night, you can only beat low rr assasins and even then you need to blow most of your toys..
against shield tanks you dont stand much chance.. only vs bad ones.
if you want a melee stealther, roll an inf

 

[Danamyr]

dont bother, I tried playing on a rr7 melee scout the other night, you can only beat low rr assasins and even then you need to blow most of your toys..
against shield tanks you dont stand much chance.. only vs bad ones.
if you want a melee stealther, roll an inf

I wouldn't attack shield tanks TBH, it's more important then ever to only fight the battles you can win.

I have no problems blowing toys if necessary, I can make a decent template and give myself every advantage I can.

I'd still like some answers to the questions I posted initially please. Infiltrator's are fine, but haven't got IP, nor have they got FZ.

I'd like to give it a go, I can always respec if I decide it blows.

Besides, VF played well with his melee Scout. While not having his skill, I am sure I could still do myself justice

 

[aika]

go for 50 thrust 42 shield composite to 50 stealth and rest bow. Funnily enough with 24+6 bow I did more damage than with 50+17 thrust in melee. So you will need some bow to lower your enemies hp a bit till they get in melee range.. not much diff between 42 shield and 47, just get mob3+ and maybe a barricading mythirian. Thrust has superior styles to slash, and you can get moz+ your thrust ws will be higher cause scouts train dex. Get winged helm and som, they are a must

 

[Danamyr]

go for 50 thrust 42 shield composite to 50 stealth and rest bow. Funnily enough with 24+6 bow I did more damage than with 50+17 thrust in melee. So you will need some bow to lower your enemies hp a bit till they get in melee range.. not much diff between 42 shield and 47, just get mob3+ and maybe a barricading mythirian. Thrust has superior styles to slash, and you can get moz+ your thrust ws will be higher cause scouts train dex. Get winged helm and som, they are a must

What do I use as my any time in Thrust line?

Does the Moment of Zen ABS debuff stack with the Battler ABS debuff?

 

[aika]

yes, it stacks, moz debuff is similar to leaper/rib sep debuff. Anytime I would just use sting (the taunt style). Some ppl use puncture-bloody dance, but imo its a bad choice, cause the real damage here comes from the second style, while the first one has low GR (0.4), and with todays defenses, you will have problems landing a 2 style chain. So I suggest using sting (0.6 GR same as amy slash).

Best dps in melee would be to slam and then use Basiliskfang, its has higher GR than pierce and it has an ASD effect. Rest of the fight just back up Beartooth with sting, when beartooth stuns again (after slam immunity is gone), side style again. Against assasins/shield tanks I wouldnt advice opening with slam, as it eats up endo and doesnt land often, so just stun with beartooth imo.

 

[leviathane]

lawl why respec melee when the archery boast patch comes sounds like a great idea to me hehe

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

lawl why respec melee when the archery boast patch comes sounds like a great idea to me hehe

It's hardly a boost, it's a complete change. I don't like what I've read about the many nerfs the new system has had (CS damage for example).

Melee is something I've been keen to try for a while and as I mentioned, there's nothing to stop me respeccing if it blows

 

[Killswitch]

What do I use as my any time in Thrust line?

I would never, ever, ever use Slam unless it was an emergency. Played a Melee scout (pre shield-love) and didn't even have Slam on my bar because of the horrible end-usage and misses due to shitty weaponskill.

Best thing you can do is to spam Sting backed up with Beartooth. When you land Beartooth, strafe to the site and hit Basiliskfang for the ASD and then to the rear to land Pierce for good damage and the bleed.

If you're capping swing speed, I think you can get Beartooth->Basilisk->Pierce->Pierce which is a decent damage combo.

Actually, if you spec 50 weapon then you could use DF now I come to think of it, although I went 44weap 50shield because Brutalize is a great escape tool (engage->brutalize for 10s stun and run).

You also have an anytime snare (2nd in chain) with Tranquilize->Wyvernfang (I think) which can be used for kiting/escaping. If you play well, you should be quite hard to kill although your damage will be poor. IP, PD, FZ, Engage, Stuns and Shield Trip work pretty well.

Disclaimer: I've not played my scout (or Albion) for a LONG time...

 

[Sorin]

Just to make things more clear.. Shield caps at 50, even with modifiers.

So 42+8 = The Cap.

Same with parry.

So no reason to go 50 shield unless you don't have room for shield modifiers in your temp.

 

[aika]

Just to make things more clear.. Shield caps at 50, even with modifiers.

So 42+8 = The Cap.

Same with parry.

So no reason to go 50 shield unless you don't have room for shield modifiers in your temp.

are you sure? so there's no point to make +11 shield in temp???

 

[Sorin]

are you sure? so there's no point to make +11 shield in temp???

No and there never was... not unless you got 39 shield ofc.

 

[aika]

I was always sure that each point in shield increases your block rate by 0.5%

 

[Sorin]

I was always sure that each point in shield increases your block rate by 0.5%

till 50 ye ;/

 

[Danamyr]

till 50 ye ;/

Where are you getting this from?

Shield has never capped at 50, and it still does not cap at 50.

Every point in Shield over 50 gives 0.5% chance to block, with MoB on top.

 

[Sorin]

Where are you getting this from?

Shield has never capped at 50, and it still does not cap at 50.

Every point in Shield over 50 gives 0.5% chance to block, with MoB on top.

Unless i missed something valid somewhere then the above is wrong.

It caps at 50 like parry does.. otherwise the chance to block/parry would be way above 75% (CAP For Block)

And if parry didn't cap at 50 aswell, then there the parry cap could in theory be 75% aswell. And those two together is impossible cuz then you would never be able to get hit.

In any case.. i will investigate this.

I'm well aware that those two doesn't stack in a way most people think.. but if your right then its illogical.

 

[Killswitch]

Unless i missed something valid somewhere then the above is wrong.

It caps at 50 like parry does.. otherwise the chance to block/parry would be way above 75% (CAP For Block)

And if parry didn't cap at 50 aswell, then there the parry cap could in theory be 75% aswell. And those two together is impossible cuz then you would never be able to get hit.

In any case.. i will investergate this.

I believe that the chance to block has been hard-capped at 75% to compensate for the silliness after the DW nerf patch. However, there is more than just your composite shield spec to consider.

For starters, 50+15 shield will increase your chance to land shield styles and also your damage with them. I think that you need quite high dex to hit the cap too. I doubt a troll warrior with 50 effective shield would hit the cap for example, not without lots of MoB.

I don't know the formula off the top of my head, but this could easily be tested by someone with a BB and some patience.

 

[aika]

42+17 shield and 395 dex on scout give you 60.55% chance to block, without +11 in template, blockrate dropped down to 55.05%... so no you cant cap block rate without mob.. (this info is from charplan)

Also blockrate is further modified by WS, thats the reason why armsmen with same shield spec/dex/mob block better than paladins, and why Warriors are the best blockers overall.

 

[Danamyr]

Unless i missed something valid somewhere then the above is wrong.

It caps at 50 like parry does.. otherwise the chance to block/parry would be way above 75% (CAP For Block)

And if parry didn't cap at 50 aswell, then there the parry cap could in theory be 75% aswell. And those two together is impossible cuz then you would never be able to get hit.

In any case.. i will investigate this.

I'm well aware that those two doesn't stack in a way most people think.. but if your right then its illogical.

With respect, you are wrong. Parry indeed capped at 50% and always has to the best of my knowledge. Shield on the other hand didn't cap at 50 (skill) and still does not now. Killswitch is quite right in that there is now a cap on blocking, but there's no cap on Shield.

HTH

 

[Sorin]

I believe that the chance to block has been hard-capped at 75% to compensate for the silliness after the DW nerf patch. However, there is more than just your composite shield spec to consider.

For starters, 50+15 shield will increase your chance to land shield styles and also your damage with them. I think that you need quite high dex to hit the cap too. I doubt a troll warrior with 50 effective shield would hit the cap for example, not without lots of MoB.

I don't know the formula off the top of my head, but this could easily be tested by someone with a BB and some patience.

The chance to hit is controlled by your weapskill and To-hit chance of the style only.

The damage with shield increases yes.
But the block rate remains the same weather 50 or above.

Like i said before.. i will investigate this.

 

[Killswitch]

The chance to hit is controlled by your weapskill and To-hit chance of the style only.

The damage with shield increases yes.
But the block rate remains the same weather 50 or above.

Like i said before.. i will investigate this.

I believe that the general consensus is that your chance to land shield styles is not related to your Weapon Skill (ie the number you see on your UI). That number is based on your skill and stats with relation to your current mainhand weapon. Chance to land shield styles is based off of a different hidden weaponskill calculation.

Also, with regards to an earlier comment, you couldn't ever block all attacks because the probability of defences stopping an attack isn't a straight addition . I can't remember the order but it's something like;

Hit/Miss -> Bladeturn -> Guard -> Evade -> Parry -> Block

So 50% parry will block 50% of the attacks that get past BT/Guard/Evade and then 75% blocking will block 75% of what gets past parry. This would mean that the absolute maximum combined block/parry rate would be 87.5% (against someone in your frontal arc). I don't want to think about how much shield/parry/dex/MoB/MoP you'd need to achieve this and it could be countered by strafing/run-through.

 

[Eeben]

50 shield > 50 weapon imo. tryet both an had must luck with 50 sheild on my scout,,

 

[Danamyr]

50 shield > 50 weapon imo. tryet both an had must luck with 50 sheild on my scout,,

I agree, but the difference between 47 Shield and 50 Shield is 1.5% chance to block. I can live with that until I get to RR9

 

[Killswitch]

I agree, but the difference between 47 Shield and 50 Shield is 1.5% chance to block. I can live with that until I get to RR9

But but but but...

Brutalize >>>>>> Dragonfang

Plus better blocking and increased chance to land Slam. Your weaponskill is going to be poor anyway and you might as well use Brutalize or Beartooth instead of DF nowadays anyway.

To be honest, it's a close call Dana and it'll be a long, painful struggle either way. Just remember this...a lucky string of blocks is more likely to turn a fight than an extra 10-15 damage each round.

 

[Danamyr]

But but but but...

Brutalize >>>>>> Dragonfang

Plus better blocking and increased chance to land Slam. Your weaponskill is going to be poor anyway and you might as well use Brutalize or Beartooth instead of DF nowadays anyway.

To be honest, it's a close call Dana and it'll be a long, painful struggle either way. Just remember this...a lucky string of blocks is more likely to turn a fight than an extra 10-15 damage each round.

I'll bear that in mind

 

[Rhoma]

I've tested on 1.87 some specs & temps vs same target (blocking issue):

42+rr+0 items bonus
42+rr+11
50+rr+0
50+rr+11

And i can say shield isn't cap at 50. All depend on ws on your enemy (nerf 2h ws) vs your block bonus.

 

[Tip]

Aim is melle spec -

42 Shield +20
44 Thrust +20
30 Stealth +20
Rest Bow (think its 37 +20)


Works nice !

and MOS 5 for spotting

 

[Golena]

The damage with shield increases yes.
But the block rate remains the same weather 50 or above.

Like i said before.. i will investigate this.

It's always a good idea to check your right before spouting things as facts.
Otherwise you just end up looking rather foolish.

Shield has never capped at 50, and still doesn't.

 

[aika]

It's always a good idea to check your right before spouting things as facts.
Otherwise you just end up looking rather foolish.

Shield has never capped at 50, and still doesn't.

where are you You dissapeared, gone with the wind, and now my life is all in ruin and disarray!