-Master Levels-

[old.Mirandalia]

Well I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm really interested in the PvE aspect of the game, and therefore also intersted in the upcoming Master Levels, which comes with Trials of Atlantis.

I surfed the net some (yes I'm at work), and found some good links for those interested, but I would like to know more, so if _you_ have any links, post them!


Fetched from:
Master Levels on emeraldcircle.com

Master Levels

It's a great concept (I might be expected to say that, since I proposed something similar). DAoC certainly needs something to make high-end PvE worthwhile and enticing. I love the possibilities. There are a couple of potential problems, though...

First - the balancing required will be greater than it would be if Mythic were adding new classes. Assuming Mythic adds a variety of useful new skills/styles/spells/whatever for each class, there will be possible combinations that may overpower a class. With all 39 classes having access to these new Master Levels, it seems fairly certain that at least a few serious balance problems will arise.

Second - You have to pay to compete. No one's ever really argued that the playing field is level between the rich and the poor. If nothing else, there is always hardware and connection to consider. But for the moment, there is no gameplay advantage in the area where conflict matters - RvR - for those who have paid for an expansion. But if Master Levels are useful in any way (which they must be, or they'll be a disaster for other reasons), then those with ToA - those who can afford it, and those who have machines which can handle it - will have a clear advantage over the rest. The player base will be separated into the haves and the have nots - and the distinction will matter.

It also sets the precedent in DAoC that UO has now embraced - pay for performance. There really isn't much of a difference between paying for an expansion that gives you a higher maximum potential and just paying to reach a higher potential (buying levels, skills, equipment, whatever). There aren't any indications that Mythic will ever go down that road, but I'd like to see a firm stance from them saying it won't happen.

Finally, Master Levels are needed for all high-level PvE content. If you can get Master Levels in ToA, why visit the PvE end-game in SI or in classic DAoC? Content that there is no reason to make use of might as well not exist - so essentially the only PvE end-game content will end up being in ToA.



Some information off an ezboard forum:

Master levels
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found something interesting over at the VN Reaver Boards.

The Important Information (asides from the TLs vacation - bleh. )

"The goal of the Master Level Abilities is to add things to classes that are cool, fluffy, or add utility (or all three). We do not want to change power level with these abilities.

One example I passed on that I saw on the Ranger TL report feedback thread:

" Falconry - Ranger takes shade form similar to a necro. Flying pet can do no damage, ranger cannot move, and assumes the vision of flying pet. Pet gets killed, Ranger has 1/10 hp left. Ranger CAN be killed in "shade" form. "

There will be some master abilities that are specific to each class. There will also be some master abilities that will be shared by class type. (i.e. stealth based MAs for rogues)

So please try and make suggestions for both."

Sorry if this was a pre-mature post, k8t, i'm rather excited about this new idea.

In fact, I think we should start listing our ideas.. RIGHT NOW!

Of course, i'm not about to end this without throwing out my ideas..

Imobilization: Mercenary bear hugs, trips, "grapples" with the target and effectivly rendures the two unable to perform any actions. The mercenary occupies the target by any means nessessary, and as thus the mercenary gives up all ability to deal damage. While the merc and his target are entangled in eachother, neither one can do any actions untill the timer runs out, the merc volentarly ends it, or the target makes a resist check (an automatic resistance check on the table similer to grapple. If grapple is unresistable, then it should be on the crush template as that best represents the situation). Both targets will not be damageable, all the moving is so entense that there is no way to land a shot on the current opponent - OR - make both targets attackable, but give an increase chance to miss, fumble, and/or hit a realmate. This looks cool and pointless (what we want ), and I see none to very little advantage that could take place with this ability (heck, the reaver wants to force people to release. That's pretty game-effecting). lasts 7 seconds, re-useable every 15 minutes.

Coin Drop: Said it befor somewhere.. Oh well. Every KillSpam (Landing the finishing blow on a target) done by the mercenary causes said target to drop one gold peice. Fluffy, uniqe, makes you wonder "Why bother?"

Just so you know, it's really hard to think of something that doesn't make you "better", per-say. I want to say things like "delay cut" or "thrust of death doom destruction unpleasent feelings of anguish tourment and sarrow", but those would make us better (and probably crazy).

Light Tank Speed: first level caster speed.. we're pretty light on our feet, arn't we?'

Soft Landing: pretty much safe fall I.

Spot: Passive that lets us see stealth just a wee bit better. Not see hidden, but just a better chance.

Furious Swings: PBAoE Bleed.. i'm just reaching out of thin air now.

Will post more later.. If waiting on a more offical response from k8t, ignore/remove this one.




---
The fulfilling answers from Mythic employee:

GB: Tell us about the Master Levels that you'll be introducing in ToA. How will this advancement system work and what will players have to do in order to gain access to some of the new abilities, spells, etc?

Matt: There are nine Trials and after surpassing each Trial, players are granted a Master Level, so there are nine Master Levels in all. At each Master Level, players are given new abilities that will make them more full-featured, instead of strictly more powerful.



Please post more information if you got any

 

[old.Mirandalia]

The reason for Master Levels...

Copy+pasted from The Death of DAoC - Lack of PvE Endgame

The Death of DAoC - Lack of PvE Endgame

(1263 total words in this text)
(432 Reads)



I’ve decided to try my hand (and a miniature crystal ball from Wal-Mart!) at being a psychic. I figure that if Miss Cleo, an L.A. woman with a fake Jamaican accent, can make millions with it…. Well, I ought to at least be able to make a decent article.

I tried to divine the cause of the death of DAoC. Before my eyes flashed images of various high level monsters – Legion, the Dragons, Apocalypse, and various level 50 Epic Quest mobs.

What did it mean? How could monsters in a game cause the death of that game? My belief is that these monsters represent DAoC’s PvE end-game, and that it is that aspect of the game which will cause the game’s downfall.

In truth, DAoC does not have a PvE end-game - Mythic’s goal has always been that RvR will be the end-game. Oh, there are high-level monsters to kill; there is no doubt about that. There are plenty of those monsters, with the advent of Shrouded Isles – three new dungeons per realm full of monsters optimized for those level 50+; one of those dungeons in each realm filled almost entirely with epic level (65+) monsters. Once, volume may have been the issue, because with a limited amount of targets you’re bound to get bored of each. Now, volume is not the issue; there are enough different high-level areas to keep people occupied without having to go to one in particular very often. The problem is that there just is no incentive to do high level PvE raids.

Mythic has always said that players will be able to create the best items, and with Spellcrafting and alchemy in, that is quite true. A player can create (or more likely, buy) an entire suit of armor with the same level of defense as the best dropped items in the game; and a player can use Spellcrafting to pick out which bonuses would aid him most. The vast majority of players design entire suits, rather than a single item. Thus, even should a player get a dropped item, it is VERY unlikely to be better than the player-crafted item the player already has, when considered among the suit as a whole.

Of course, Mythic knows this, and in the SI epic-level dungeons they attempted to deal with it. They’ve added whole suits of class-specific armor; and when you get the entire suit, you can use very special items which drop off the big boss of that dungeon (most of these special items have a permanent effect – for example, Power or Endurance regeneration). It sounds like it could work – after all, Mythic designed the items with the entire suit in mind, just like players do – and on top of that, if you get the entire suit, you can use items like no others in the game! However, a few things cause the idea to fail. First, Mythic can’t design the suits for a particular player. They had to take different possible spec choices into account; for example, the Champion-only suit has bonuses to multiple weapon skills, only one of which a particular player needs. Thus, points are wasted which in a player-designed suit would be better used. Second, Mythic quite often simply botches the design of these suits, just as they did with Epic armor. Unusual amounts of a particular stat or resist, bonuses to a stat that a class just doesn’t use… there are a number of ways the design can be messed up. Third, these suits take a considerable amount of time to collect. In dungeons which need anywhere from 2-20 full groups to clear, you are quite unlikely to be the lucky person who gets a drop even should one you can use appear. It’s not far-fetched to imagine that it could take literally hundreds of raids to get an entire suit and the special items to accompany it.

Items simply do not provide an incentive to go on PvE raids, by Mythic’s own design. What else could provide that incentive instead? Well, fun is the most obvious possibility; yet unfortunately, it is difficult to have fun if you do not also gain something. Particularly with the amount of time required to plan and begin a large raid, frustration often outweighs fun. Aside from fun, experience is an option. That does not, however, work for those who are already level 50. There are really no other reasons, presently, to go on high-level PvE raids consistently. Therefore, one must be added.

RvR provides a good reference point for a new game mechanic to encourage PvE raids. RvR uses Realm Points to encourage regular activity. Realm Points are, essentially, a never-ending flow of reward with which you can get things you can get no other way (those things being, of course, Realm Abilities). It is possible to reach the point where you gain no more reward, but only the most dedicated (i.e. hardcore) players will ever reach that level. This should be the model for a PvE system, as it meets all the general requirements for a successful end-game.

Think of a PvE version of Realm Points – Raid Points. You could get these by participating in a raid – Mythic has set the precedent with the recent Battlegrounds Central Keep changes, whereby you can get experience for taking a CK. A similar method could be used to determine who gets points – simply giving all within a certain radius the points. (Unfortunately, Mythic has yet to figure out a way to give anything – loot, realm points, experience – to dead characters.) Most epic-level monsters would give points – every monster above 65, with every level after 65 being worth more points.

As with Realm Points, there would be unique Raid Abilities which could be bought using Raid Points. It would be necessary to have at least some of these abilities be useful in both PvE and RvR; else, there would be less incentive to get them. After all, who wants to get abilities which are only useful in the pursuit of more abilities? (Actually, everyone who fights in RvR to get Realm Points does so… but RvR is generally more fun than a large-scale PvE raid.) Realm Abilities gained through RvR are almost all useful in PvE; the reverse should be true, as well.

This entire article is based upon the idea that an end-game composed entirely of RvR will not suffice. Why is that? Well, it may not be; it is entirely possible that RvR alone will hold the attention of most players. Yet, we have seen from the PvP servers (Andred and Mordred) and the PvE server (Gaheris) that, when players of DAoC must choose between all PvP and no PvP, no PvP wins out. Additionally, previous MMORPGS – most notably EverQuest – have shown that a strong PvE end-game has the ability to retain customers in the long term, even without any form of PvP whatsoever. RvR may have that same ability, but we will not find out for quite some time. In the event that RvR cannot hold the player base’s attention, it makes sense for Mythic to try to add to the part of a game which has been proven in the past… for they will only find out if RvR has longevity when it is too late to do anything about it if it does not.

Credit for this idea goes in large part to Jerid, DAoC’s Monster/NPC Team Lead. His constant mention of a similar idea on the private Pendragon boards helped me think of the possibilities.

 

[Sard-Nair]

noooooo master levels, my friend has 10blobs @ 50 and nothing happened, lucky him tbh...will they keep the exp the same or give you more exp when you kill a mob at 50?

 

[old.Mirandalia]

Well since it (most likely) won't be possible to gain more levels than level 50, I reckon the xp gained from mobs overall will not change one bit.

The Master Levels as I've gathered are just additional abilities granted to characters that finish the quests for Master Levels.

For example Rangers might get the flying falcon ability .. great for finding zergs in RRs I'm sure

Would be great to get some inside story (bleh at nda ) with more of the abilities at some point

 

[censi]

Rangers can get the pigeon thing to shat on the zerg?

 

[Sard-Nair]

lol!
When ToA comes out theres going to be sharks, will they be charmable and able to go onland?

 

[kain_pravus]

"You command your pet (shark) to attack Hibbie"

"your pet shark squarms around and dies"

"hibbie pbae's you for 999,999 damage"

 

[osy]

Originally posted by censi
Rangers can get the pigeon thing to shat on the zerg?

 

[svartmetall]

Well, the have/have not argument could also be applied to buffbots (which, I might add, suck, and should be removed from the game).

But how many of us who play DAOC sufficiently that we post here will seriously NOT be buying an expansion? I will be getting it asap...hell even if they do an RvR expansion I'll get it - and I'm not even an RvR fan.

 

[klavrynd]

another lame "revive the game" attempt and allmost entirely stolen from EQ

gg

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Summon Insta-Pidgeon would rock.

I could start a French restaurant and specialise in Pidgeon dishes. Pidgeon stew, pidgeon patee, pidgeon soup, pidgeon a l'orange. Served with a side-order of boiled wolf.

I can see Mythic's plans for the hunter class already.. Fastfood restaurants!

 

[Blood]

Originally posted by svartmetall
hell even if they do an RvR expansion I'll get it - and I'm not even an RvR fan.

afaik they will be making the RvR expansion after ToA, and the RvR expansion will be free

 

[Falcon]

I hope they let us kamikaze our new pet pidgeon beak first into the eyes of buffbots at APK penetrating immediately into their brains and killing them instantly.

 

[Falcon]

But for the moment, there is no gameplay advantage in the area where conflict matters - RvR - for those who have paid for an expansion.

Does this guy even play the game? Has he heard of Savages and Bonedancers ffs ?

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Buffbots have brains? =)

 

[-Lonewolf-]

Overload!

 

[the_fnord]

Originally posted by klavrynd
another lame "revive the game" attempt and allmost entirely stolen from EQ

gg

And? I've never played EQ so I don't f*ckin care if it's stolen from EQ!

 

[old.Mirandalia]

Well, I found this nice VN forum thread in which Mythic asked people for ideas for the upcoming Master Levels... quite a nice read! Recommend it!


Master Level Abilities for the TOA expansion


Ps.
stay in topic

 

[the_smurflord]

One I think would be nice, going along with the Dirty Tricks ability, would be for a merc to play dead. Can lay on the ground and appear as a corpse, but can get up at any time and attack. Of course while in corpse form he can still be attacked too.

Scouts, Rangers and Hunters - some tracking abilities, like telling how many people have passed a certain spot and roughly how long ago.

 

[old.Jable]

nice collection of info mir

master lvl sound ok, something to do for a bit anyway. personally i dont think they will sort out the game until you can import your character into some sort of star wars single player campaign, but then i am hooked on knights of the old republic atm.

 

[Falcon]

Originally posted by the_smurflord
One I think would be nice, going along with the Dirty Tricks ability, would be for a merc to play dead. Can lay on the ground and appear as a corpse, but can get up at any time and attack. Of course while in corpse form he can still be attacked too.

Scouts, Rangers and Hunters - some tracking abilities, like telling how many people have passed a certain spot and roughly how long ago.

We've been waiting for that in our stealth line since beta, was something promised to us a looooooong time ago Last I heard from Mythic about it was they still want to implement it but don't want to make it as overpowered as See Hidden <ponders>

 

[old.Tohtori]

Agnus McRude: 'ere's my ihdea fer a fycking abiliteh! Mudgard...pished! Ye can take a shwig of a keg and yer vishion goes all fycked up! Ye hit like a bull on testosterone trip but ye can't shee shiet! *rolls on the floor laughing*

Noy, fer Albion, those nogood sons o dogs! The abhilite tho fight!! With a fhive minute thimer! twenty fucking sheconds of pyre fighting pleasurre fer a realm that co-co-couldn't whack a gopher to save their lives!!! Aaahahaha!!

And fhinally. Fer the wee ones. The hiberrnating ones. Abhility to hyg a three! I mean...a three! In midst all the fighting and cussing, the weeones could go an hyg a fucking three!! Ahahhaha!! There they be, hygging threes while we be kicking their arses across the frontiers!!

 

[The Kingpin]

Since am lazy and can't be arsed reading all that at the moment...

Anyone care to tell me what a master Quest is about in a short matter?

 

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by The Kingpin
Since am lazy and can't be arsed reading all that at the moment...

Anyone care to tell me what a master Quest is about in a short matter?

What we know...

- It's a quest.
- It rewards you with an ability.
- There are 9 of them that a character can go through.
- Each one is themed around a 'trait', think of Ultima virtues or ATITD disciplines.
- Intention is that a character can begin master quests at about level 35.
- Intention is that the ability rewards will give characters breadth rather than increased depth.

Beta people seem to spend an unusual amount of time saying "OMFG master quests are nothing like the previous quests", they have been known to use multiple exclamation marks.

Everything else is guesswork.

 

[The Kingpin]

Cheers

 

[old.Trine Aquavit]

Originally posted by the_smurflord
One I think would be nice, going along with the Dirty Tricks ability, would be for a merc to play dead. Can lay on the ground and appear as a corpse, but can get up at any time and attack. Of course while in corpse form he can still be attacked too.

Ironically, given Klav's reference to stealing ideas from EQ, this is a feature of the Monk class in EQ. In high-level EQ Monks are the uber pullers using this ability - they pull a group of mobs, then play dead until they start to lose interest, then get up again and pull a smaller number. Repeat until you've got a manageable number of mobs to kill - it's quite an art done well.

I agree it would make a nice RvR feature, though.

 

[old.Jable]

Originally posted by The Kingpin
Since am lazy and can't be arsed reading all that at the moment...

Anyone care to tell me what a master Quest is about in a short matter?

Wow, what a lazy bastard.

 

[Chenuba]

Paladins could get "turn undead". Could be very useful in PVE.

 

[Falcon]

I'm sure bonedancers would love paladins to have that too

 

[Chenuba]

Originally posted by Falcon
I'm sure bonedancers would love paladins to have that too

Yeah, that too