mana eldritch questions

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exc_hib_boo

Guest
Originally posted by old.giriam


come on, its not that hard.

- start to remove the diseases
- when the mages get low on life cast your group instant
- remove the rest of the diseases
- heal people, starting with the low con classes

healers that are so close to the keep that they get dot'ed should be shot on sight anyway :p

G

Thats for 3 casts (disease, str/con debuff, dot) from 2 chars. Imagine them doing it every 20 seconds for a few minutes. The healers will be out of mana soon and ppl will start dying.
 
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Danya

Guest
Don't forget the tanks will no doubt keep running back for more getting rediseased and redotted repeatedly until you're very OOM. :p There's no recast timer on disease or dot and no immunity timer. And you don't get a group instant every 30 seconds. :p

On the snaring... I draw your attention to the 1.50C patch notes:
"Disease spells have had their values tweaked. RvR effectiveness of the strength debuff has been increased, and the PvE effectiveness should be the same. The snare component of disease will work on players, but does not currently work on monsters"
Disease has a snare in addition to it's str debuff. AFAIK it's a 15% snare.
 
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old.Charonel

Guest
if you have enough voidies to make gtaoe destructive enough then yes, i agree, the ability to cast it without having to stand at the doors risking being blasted does own pbaoe. on the other hand you can do the same kind of damage with far fewer pbaoeers around, question of numbers only, if, that is, your talking about using gtaoe to bombard the gates same as pbaoe.

personally, unless you have large numbers of gtaoers to make it lethal, it's use is best as a way to stop enemy gtaoers i'd think.
 
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old.Charonel

Guest
just found the thing on vn boards when i first ever heared about it becomming an aoe snare DD, link is here:

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=37710904&replies=3

now i'm not one to think that a vn board link is gonna be conclusive of pretty much anything other than a flame fest :D, but it's not the only thing i've seen, as i said, someone on my pet mage said they already had it etc... all i can think is that they meant they're getting it, worded badly perhaps, but i certainly read as if they already had it there in the US... having checked mythics site myself though it doesnt seem likely :(, shame too since i was really looking forward to it, BUT, maybe they're gonna change it :clap:.

still, the attackspeed debuff is ok too, and remember, it's weak, but it's a ranged aoe DD, meaning you can hit milegates iwth it to uncover stealthers etc...

hardly useless.
 
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Lessurl

Guest
Originally posted by old.Charonel
if you have enough voidies to make gtaoe destructive enough then yes, i agree, the ability to cast it without having to stand at the doors risking being blasted does own pbaoe. on the other hand you can do the same kind of damage with far fewer pbaoeers around, question of numbers only, if, that is, your talking about using gtaoe to bombard the gates same as pbaoe.

personally, unless you have large numbers of gtaoers to make it lethal, it's use is best as a way to stop enemy gtaoers i'd think.


Nope, i am talkin about usin gtaoe to bombard the casters/healers at the back. And maybe the occasional one at doors, it drains mana of the healers and can kill people, 100-200 damage every shot can't be sniffed at, especially when it double ticks. That's in a defence situation. In an attack you can use gtaoe to hit people who keep poppin up then back down again b4 u can get a cast off, and to hit people resting in the courtyard.
Of course pbaoe still is better for hitting tanks on doors, and for defending lords room (tho gtaoe may put a stop to second) but that is a very limited amount of time in a keep raid as you can't do it till they are on second door. Gtaoe you can use from the off and slowly drain the enemies mana and hp. War of attrition (sp?) etc.
I fear attacking a keep with gtaoers in more than one with pbaoers in. Easy to counterract pbaoers. Use your own pbaoe on door, or ranged aoe or gtaoe to stop them gettin to it to pb. When in lords room just gtaoe the room till you kill them or flush them out, plus lord will come to meet you now (as we discovered at nged a min ago, lol, he ran half way down the stairs) so no need to go in at all. But with gtaoe the only way to counter is with another gtaoer or an assasin, unless they make the mistake of showing their face.

hence, gtaoe > pbaoe for keep attack/defence
 
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Danya

Guest
Pretty easy to just move out of the area of effect of a gtae though. And 100 dmg every 10 secs isn't that much really. I can pretty much regen that amount of hp with hot while in combat. :p
 
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Lessurl

Guest
it is less than 10 seconds, gtaoe is on a 6 sec timer. And shh, you're one of those damned overpowered ments.

Also moving out of range of gtaoe is good for the gtaoe user too, means he is scattering his enemy and also at most keeps moving out of range means moving out of range or los of doors so they can't heal the tanks. you then start on tanks till they are forced to come back in to range to heal. Plus movin the mages out of range means your mages/archers can have free reign on the walls. Basically gtaoe is a general nuisance in keep defence and it's near impossible to stop w/o your own gtaoer.
 
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old.Charonel

Guest
lessurl has a point though danyan, and remember :), last night we found that your hot gets owned by disease :D
 
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Lessurl

Guest
Just thought of something else, once first door is down, pbaoer combined with gtaoer will be a very good combo. First gtaoe on door, to interupt enemy pbaoers, your pber runs in and starts, then gtaoe moved to healers/mages to interupt the healers attempts to heal tanks/pbers on doors and interupt enemy ranged aoers from aoeing the door to get your pbaoer.

Right, if you can follow that i think you deserve a lolly.
 
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Danya

Guest
Originally posted by old.Charonel
lessurl has a point though danyan, and remember :), last night we found that your hot gets owned by disease :D
Disease isn't gtaoe though. :p

And Lessurl, I'll have a strawberry lolly, thanks. ;)
 
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old.Charonel

Guest
hehe, people whine about hibs being overpowered in keep defence as it is, could you imagine the flames if we got gtaoe disease? :), wouldnt start at first, until they find that unless they take keeps from us very quickly they end up being unable to defend themselves etc... :D

<-------------wants that and aoe DD snare :)

and lessurl, it is actually 1 gtaoe every 10 seconds, you have to remember casting time, 4 seconds to cast, then have to wait 6 seconds to start another 4 second cast again etc...

actual delay may be only 6 seconds, but in real nuking terms, you only get one shot every 10 secs :)
 
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Lessurl

Guest
Actually when you factor in dex etc. it's less than ten seconds. :p
 
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old.Charonel

Guest
:) pffft, well if you want to get finicky about it, there's allways lag increasing things slightly :)
 
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old.giriam

Guest
Originally posted by exc_hib_boo


Thats for 3 casts (disease, str/con debuff, dot) from 2 chars. Imagine them doing it every 20 seconds for a few minutes. The healers will be out of mana soon and ppl will start dying.

why not simply deal damage instead? the disease doesnt help kill anyone, damage does. and the healers will be just as much oom from healing damage as they will be from removing disease :)

G
 
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old.giriam

Guest
Originally posted by Danyan

On the snaring... I draw your attention to the 1.50C patch notes:
"Disease spells have had their values tweaked. RvR effectiveness of the strength debuff has been increased, and the PvE effectiveness should be the same. The snare component of disease will work on players, but does not currently work on monsters"
Disease has a snare in addition to it's str debuff. AFAIK it's a 15% snare.

ok i stand corrected. the str debuff is nearly non existant in rvr though, i think the "knowledge debuffica" from the eld TL report listed it at -9 str or so (cant be bothered to look it up atm), which is marginal at best.

G
 
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old.giriam

Guest
Originally posted by old.Charonel
still, the attackspeed debuff is ok too, and remember, it's weak, but it's a ranged aoe DD, meaning you can hit milegates iwth it to uncover stealthers etc...

no stealther in his right mind would go close to the gates in an milegate standoff, because the doors and the gateway DOES get bombarded by void/light menta aoe all the time.

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Alkoran

Guest
.......

There's almost always a stealther at AMG... not always between the doors, but it's worth a shot anyway...also it's not always a case of uncovering them... when AoE spells start going off it's very scary from a stealth point of view and it can make assasins think twice about making a move for any easy targets.
 
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old.Charonel

Guest
also, not each time you go through a milegate, will it be a stand off like in emain, frequently i've been saved in odins by hitting hmg with a void aoe DD before going thorugh, uncovered six infils at once point :), you've NEVER seen me run that fast before :D

almost allways a lone assasin in odins mile gates from what i see these days, usually either uncover one with aoe DD or they perf you just as your casting, but i'd prefer to use a ranged aoe DD to do it rather than pbaoe... which is rather more dangerous i think :).

low damage from mana aoe DD attackspeed debuff maybe, but if you do it them with it, it does it's job nicely for destealthing, and on top of that, since assassins rely on getting they're styles off more than anything, slowing their attackspeed is very handy.

and giriam, yes the str reduction is small, but you have to remember, that as your casting the disease, you can at the same time be hittign them with a -73 insta str/con debuff, so it doesnt actually matter much, disease is more there for the healing and health regen problems it places, and while yes, you can just spam them with aoe DD's for the same effect as dot, you WILL die if you stand on the walls doign that, with a very powerfull, full mana spec dot like danya's talking about, you cast once then drop back out of view, meaning that your own side doesnt have to keep healing/rezzing you while you get turned into a pincusion :), less usefull to use aoe DD's in my mind than an aoe dot combined with aoe disease, because of the fact that "you can't spam aoe DD's if dead" :D
 
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Kobold

Guest
I played a mana eld in BG a bit, and must say it is pretty fun. You have lotsa wierd stuff to cast, and it's cool to annoy you're enemies with aoe disease. Allso the aoe damage is pretty nice, and I'm pretty sure it's snare blast too. And pbaoe is nice to uncover stealthers that is about to PA you. But the snare blast is uber...for hunting aswell....funny spec indeed :D
 
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Danya

Guest
Originally posted by old.Charonel
and giriam, are you trying to say that a minus 73! str/con debuff get's resisted down to averaging -9 str/con? would you mind linking the info? beacuse it's hard to get my head around that to be honest and i'd rather like to know more about it before hitting someone with it and having go "pftzzzz" :(
No he means the debuff effect os disease in RvR.

As for ae on the doors, I like to spam an AE dot down to check for assassins. Getting hit by that is not good as it prevents stealth for 34s :D
 
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Kobold

Guest
Hmmm...are you sure?

I think I could stealth with my ranger while poisened/dotted/diseased after what I remember. It's a while ago though, so might have been changed in later patches anywayz...
 
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old.Charonel

Guest
Originally posted by Danyan

No he means the debuff effect os disease in RvR.

As for ae on the doors, I like to spam an AE dot down to check for assassins. Getting hit by that is not good as it prevents stealth for 34s :D

hehe i know he did, which was why i changed the post about ten seconds after making it :), stop being so damn fast :p
 
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Danya

Guest
Originally posted by old.Eternal[EW]
Hmmm...are you sure?

I think I could stealth with my ranger while poisened/dotted/diseased after what I remember. It's a while ago though, so might have been changed in later patches anywayz...
You can't stealth while under attack or for 10 secs afterwards. DOT counts as being under attack every 4 secs for 24s. :p AFAIK you have never been able to stealth while taking damage. :p

Lessurl, who needs mez? Just stun them. :D
 
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Amadon

Guest
Mana elds should get a 9 sec win-button^^^ I mean AOE stun :p
 
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old.Charonel

Guest
that'd be a non resist effected stun, with a nice "group them on top of each other" effect please :D
 
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Lessurl

Guest
Who needs stun when you got MoC and a friendly healer. ;)
 
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Amadon

Guest
Originally posted by Lessurl
Who needs stun when you got MoC and a friendly healer. ;)

me - I'm a gimped 1-shotted-wonder :p

and MoC is:
a) expensive
b) on a 30 min timer
c) a LONG way off for me unless I get lucky in some keep defense or something :p
 

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