TV Making a Murderer

Raven

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I read about this in the news and thought it was an hour long special or something, it's actually a series 10x 1 hour episodes on netflix.

Its about a guy who was put away for the rape and attempted murder of a women. 18 years later he was set free and exonerated based on DNA evidence. It turns out the entire prosecution was a fix from the start. The cops lied, fucked with witnesses, fucked with evidence and set the guy up.

Anyway, a few years after getting set free he is once again arrested and later sentenced for the rape and murder of a different women, once again it looks as though he is being set up by the same police department and some of the same cops who shafted him before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Avery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_a_Murderer
Really good documentary, on episode 5 so far.
 
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Big G

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Spoilers dude, I'm only on Ep 5. Will post about this properly later because I was going to make a thread.
 

Raven

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Yeah, spoilers perhaps (if a mod can edit please!) Was trying not to spoil anything and only posted what was in the news.

Either way, seriously compelling stuff.
 

Raven

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Anyway, seen it all now.

The whole documentary feels pretty one sided, that being said...There are plenty of questions that were not answered.

Why would he load the body into the victim's car when the supposed burn pit was only metres from his trailer?

What happened at the other site where they found bones? The quarry? What about the bones found in the barrel? To me as a laymen I would say the body was burned in the quarry and then the remains moved to the burn pit, in the barrel. I guess he could have driven to the quarry and burned her there but why then move the remains back again?

Why did the car key suddenly appear in his trailer after however many previous searches?

No fingerprints from Avery found in the vehicle so the cops say he wore gloves. Then claim Avery's blood found in the car came from a cut on his finger...urm...

The vehicle was found in their own car wrecking yard, why on earth would Avery just leave it there, containing blood and not just crush it and dispose of it?

Why was there no trace of blood or any other DNA from the victim found in his trailer or his garage, the place the prosecution allege that she was murdered...such as the cracks in the concrete floor of the garage, they found his DNA so it cannot have been scrubbed. Why was there no blood splatter? If he stabbed her and then cut her throat on his bed then why was there no trace of blood found there?

The way the prosecution went about describing the murder in detail to the media pre-trial based on the statements from Brendon, who can only be described as a fuckwit, a fuckwit that was clearly forced into saying what the cops wanted to hear. He clearly doesn't know what he is supposed to be saying, he just wants to go home and would say anything to do that.

wtf happened with the vial of blood? Obviously we didn't see the full custody of the evidence box but it appear that when the defence lawyers inspected it, it had been tampered with by someone.

Then there is the motive, what possible motive would Avery have for carrying out the murder, knowing full well he would be suspect number one. Plenty of motive from the state or at least a few people representing the state to shaft Avery, they were staring down the barrel of a 36 million dollar payout for the original fiddled conviction that was not covered by insurance, it would have finished them off. Then ofc any criminal convictions against close knit authority/government players.

I doubt the cops murdered her (not impossible...) but I think they found the vehicle dumped (that cop knew what type of car it was when he called in with the plate number, the same cop that made all sorts of conflicting statements) and then found the burned body, they then moved both to Avery's yard and later planted further incriminating evidence such as the key, the bullet and the blood. They also made sure that the search team would check that area, the opposite side of the compound to the entrance, the only member of the search team to have a camera too.

That slimy fucking prosecutor, jesus I would never get tired of smacking him in the face with a tennis racket. The questions raised in the post conviction emails and whatnot regarding his character, proper corrupt cunt.

If the juror that left for emergency family reasons is to be believed then they went from 7 people thinking him innocent to finding him guilty, plus allegations of jury tampering, it doesn't sit right.

From what I saw in the documentary, as a juror there is no way I would be able to come up with a guilty verdict.
 
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Aoami

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Anyway, seen it all now.

The whole documentary feels pretty one sided, that being said...There are plenty of questions that were not answered.

Why would he load the body into the victim's car when the supposed burn pit was only metres from his trailer?

What happened at the other site where they found bones? The quarry? What about the bones found in the barrel? To me as a laymen I would say the body was burned in the quarry and then the remains moved to the burn pit, in the barrel. I guess he could have driven to the quarry and burned her there but why then move the remains back again?

Why did the car key suddenly appear in his trailer after however many previous searches?

No fingerprints from Avery found in the vehicle so the cops say he wore gloves. Then claim Avery's blood found in the car came from a cut on his finger...urm...

The vehicle was found in their own car wrecking yard, why on earth would Avery just leave it there, containing blood and not just crush it and dispose of it?

Why was there no trace of blood or any other DNA from the victim found in his trailer or his garage, the place the prosecution allege that she was murdered...such as the cracks in the concrete floor of the garage, they found his DNA so it cannot have been scrubbed. Why was there no blood splatter? If he stabbed her and then cut her throat on his bed then why was there no trace of blood found there?

The way the prosecution went about describing the murder in detail to the media pre-trial based on the statements from Brendon, who can only be described as a fuckwit, a fuckwit that was clearly forced into saying what the cops wanted to hear. He clearly doesn't know what he is supposed to be saying, he just wants to go home and would say anything to do that.

wtf happened with the vial of blood? Obviously we didn't see the full custody of the evidence box but it appear that when the defence lawyers inspected it, it had been tampered with by someone.

Then there is the motive, what possible motive would Avery have for carrying out the murder, knowing full well he would be suspect number one. Plenty of motive from the state or at least a few people representing the state to shaft Avery, they were staring down the barrel of a 36 million dollar payout for the original fiddled conviction that was not covered by insurance, it would have finished them off. Then ofc any criminal convictions against close knit authority/government players.

I doubt the cops murdered her (not impossible...) but I think they found the vehicle dumped (that cop knew what type of car it was when he called in with the plate number, the same cop that made all sorts of conflicting statements) and then found the burned body, they then moved both to Avery's yard and later planted further incriminating evidence such as the key, the bullet and the blood. They also made sure that the search team would check that area, the opposite side of the compound to the entrance, the only member of the search team to have a camera too.

That slimy fucking prosecutor, jesus I would never get tired of smacking him in the face with a tennis racket. The questions raised in the post conviction emails and whatnot regarding his character, proper corrupt cunt.

If the juror that left for emergency family reasons is to be believed then they went from 7 people thinking him innocent to finding him guilty, plus allegations of jury tampering, it doesn't sit right.

From what I saw in the documentary, as a juror there is no way I would be able to come up with a guilty verdict.
Obviously they had a motive for the second arrest, but the first offence? Why was he 'framed' for that one? That is a big hole in the story imo.

It seemed clear they had evidence the whole time that the other bloke did it, but just put Avery away for it anyway.
 

Trem

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Episode 5 for us and just wow!
 

TheDon

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Defo didn't do it, read a few theories, but hope he gets a retrial

You fucking idiot, use spoiler tags you utter prick :eek:
 
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Trem

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I'm so fucking angry, @Deebs can I ban people for ruining shows?
 

Yoni

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Stop hating on the new people.
The Don is not new (if it is the same one that I used to play PS and BF42 with)..... He was in BW before you could hold a joystick..... @Trem calm down please, don't make me spank you :p remember people coming back may not know how to do stuff on the forums...
 

Trem

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The Don is not new (if it is the same one that I used to play PS and BF42 with)..... He was in BW before you could hold a joystick..... @Trem calm down please, don't make me spank you :p remember people coming back may not know how to do stuff on the forums...
That's no excuse. It's obvious to not reveal something about a series on a forum. If you can't use spoiler tags keep your gormless mouth shut.

It's totally ruined something I was loving and something that was taking my mind off endless amounts of shit we are having right now.

I'm sorry @Yoni this is one of those times where I won't ease off. I am livid.
 

TheDon

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so sorry... I had didn't know there was a spoiler tag. How do I do that? Once again apologies if I've ruined it for anyone. New here and didn't know what I was doing.
 

Trem

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so sorry... I had didn't know there was a spoiler tag. How do I do that? Once again apologies if I've ruined it for anyone. New here and didn't know what I was doing.
I know that mate, like I said you may not of known about the spoiler tags but when it comes to something like this it is obvious to not reveal the outcome of something, surely?

Apology accepted.
 

TheDon

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I know that mate, like I said you may not of known about the spoiler tags but when it comes to something like this it is obvious to not reveal the outcome of something, surely?

Apology accepted.
Cheers Fella.. getting to grips with tags now :)
 

Access Denied

It was like that when I got here...
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Anyway, seen it all now.

The whole documentary feels pretty one sided, that being said...There are plenty of questions that were not answered.

Why would he load the body into the victim's car when the supposed burn pit was only metres from his trailer?

What happened at the other site where they found bones? The quarry? What about the bones found in the barrel? To me as a laymen I would say the body was burned in the quarry and then the remains moved to the burn pit, in the barrel. I guess he could have driven to the quarry and burned her there but why then move the remains back again?

Why did the car key suddenly appear in his trailer after however many previous searches?

No fingerprints from Avery found in the vehicle so the cops say he wore gloves. Then claim Avery's blood found in the car came from a cut on his finger...urm...

The vehicle was found in their own car wrecking yard, why on earth would Avery just leave it there, containing blood and not just crush it and dispose of it?

Why was there no trace of blood or any other DNA from the victim found in his trailer or his garage, the place the prosecution allege that she was murdered...such as the cracks in the concrete floor of the garage, they found his DNA so it cannot have been scrubbed. Why was there no blood splatter? If he stabbed her and then cut her throat on his bed then why was there no trace of blood found there?

The way the prosecution went about describing the murder in detail to the media pre-trial based on the statements from Brendon, who can only be described as a fuckwit, a fuckwit that was clearly forced into saying what the cops wanted to hear. He clearly doesn't know what he is supposed to be saying, he just wants to go home and would say anything to do that.

wtf happened with the vial of blood? Obviously we didn't see the full custody of the evidence box but it appear that when the defence lawyers inspected it, it had been tampered with by someone.

Then there is the motive, what possible motive would Avery have for carrying out the murder, knowing full well he would be suspect number one. Plenty of motive from the state or at least a few people representing the state to shaft Avery, they were staring down the barrel of a 36 million dollar payout for the original fiddled conviction that was not covered by insurance, it would have finished them off. Then ofc any criminal convictions against close knit authority/government players.

I doubt the cops murdered her (not impossible...) but I think they found the vehicle dumped (that cop knew what type of car it was when he called in with the plate number, the same cop that made all sorts of conflicting statements) and then found the burned body, they then moved both to Avery's yard and later planted further incriminating evidence such as the key, the bullet and the blood. They also made sure that the search team would check that area, the opposite side of the compound to the entrance, the only member of the search team to have a camera too.

That slimy fucking prosecutor, jesus I would never get tired of smacking him in the face with a tennis racket. The questions raised in the post conviction emails and whatnot regarding his character, proper corrupt cunt.

If the juror that left for emergency family reasons is to be believed then they went from 7 people thinking him innocent to finding him guilty, plus allegations of jury tampering, it doesn't sit right.

From what I saw in the documentary, as a juror there is no way I would be able to come up with a guilty verdict.
Couldn't agree more with all of that, plus...

When I heard that the jury was to be comprised of people from Manitowoc County I thought "What??" The Avery's aren't too popular in that town and no doubt there would be those that would keep in mind that he was put in prison for rape before. Wrongfully accused or not.

Also, I wondered why no forensic testing was done on the debris heaped on and around the car. Surely with such porous materials as wood there would be DNA, there would be fingerprints on the metal. Then as you said, blood in the car but no fingerprints. Avery is below average intelligence but even he's not stupid enough to wipe his prints but leave blood behind!

There are far too many unanswered questions for my liking. As for the possibility that the evidence was planted, in my opinion it's more than a possibility. The bedroom was searched 7 times before the key was found. 7 times!! Surely the Calmut Country Sherriff's dept aren't so inept that they would have missed such a crucial piece of evidence. Then there's the fact that it was "Found" by a Manitowoc County Police officer who according to his own superiors, shouldn't have had anything to do with the search in the first place. Also, there's the key itself. The only DNA found on that key belonged to Steven Avery. It is patently impossible that Theresa Halback had that key in her possession for however long and managed to avoid getting her DNA in any of the cracks and crevices.

No DNA from the victim found in his trailer or the garage where she was supposedly murdered. No blood splatter anywhere in the garage, depsite the prosecutions assertion that she was shot 11 times in the head. The bullet with her DNA on it, found in the garage. Again "Found" by the same officer who supposedly found the key, and this was 4 months after the garage had been searched originally. 4 months! Again that calls into question the competence and observational skills of the original search team.

The documentary is a little biased but I'm frankly astounded that the case got to trial in the first place. Lack of credible evidence, conflicting statements from the officers. It was a circus from start to finish.

In my opinion, Steven Avery is entirely innocent and while I don't necessarily believe that the police had any involvement in Theresa Halbacks death, I firmly believe that they saw an opportunity to implicate Steven Avery and they took it. As you said, they were looking down the barrel of a $36m lawsuit that the insurance companies wouldn't cover. That's motive enough for anyone.
 

Access Denied

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Obviously they had a motive for the second arrest, but the first offence? Why was he 'framed' for that one? That is a big hole in the story imo.

It seemed clear they had evidence the whole time that the other bloke did it, but just put Avery away for it anyway.
There was bad blood between him and the wife of a deputy. Plus the whole family generally isn't too well liked anyway from what I saw.
 

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