Main Tanks TL's

[Belomar]

And now about the shield tanks vs Vamps - Ok it will take the vamp slightly longer to get them down its true but its not as if you can block and parry their spells so once they have a bit of power its nuke nuke heal nuke nuke nuke /laugh /F8

Wow, yet another clueless Vampiir whine--how did this thread take such a bad turn anyway? Now, please take the opportunity to inform yourself about the class before you whine. Vampiirs get power by hitting the enemy. Without power, they will have a default 14% at the start of a fight. The reason your Skald goes down so fast is because Skalds are notorious for having very poor defense. This starts a vicious circle, since the Vampiir will be hitting you with almost every hit, which will allow him to heal, fumble debuff, and DD. Yes, a Skald is easy RPs for a Vampiir.

A shield tank, on the other hand, will have no difficulties stopping most of the attacks of the Vampiir. With 14% starting power, a Vamp will not be able to do much; maybe pop a haste and/or fumble debuff. They certainly won't be able to "nuke nuke nuke", since there will simply be no way for them to get the power to do so. Even if I have not played in L50 RvR with my Vampiir (only in Leirvik), I dread shield tanks much more than any other opponent (save Warlocks) for this reason.

Don't get me wrong, the Vampiir is a very strong class and you will be able to take down most enemies (even shield tanks, with some difficulty). Regardless, they are used mostly for solo, and will thus not have a major impact on the game.

 

[RS|Phil]

It's not clueless - I actually rolled one on Pry/Hib to understand the class I really enjoy playing him. And it's not specifically a whine about Vamps; I'm just responding to a post above. In fact if you bothered to read what I've said I'm bemoaning the Warlocks too...well actually all of the Cata classes are stupid.

I know why I lost to Vamps on a Skald - yes poor defense and vulnerable to thrust I'm dog food - what I don't like are people saying that Vamps will lose every time to a buffed melee class which is what I keep seeing.

Also it's true - a fully buffed high shield/parry spec tank will stand a good chance against a Vamp - except they don't seem to. In theory they should kick the Vamp's arse but it seems to be that just one or two shots that get past the tank's defense are enough to win the fight especially if they power tap and immediately boost their WS up. And I do speak from experience, really I do - and the tale above of my healer and a thane fighting a Vamp and just giving up isn't fabricated it happened and I'm sure it happens a lot.


Again I'll say it - Catacombs classes ruin the game for everyone trying to play a classic or SI class. Nothing can take my Warlock cept a Vamp and nothing can take a Vamp cept Warlocks.

 

[Raven]

Hmm, read the thread, I don't think anyone is asking for them to be buffable?

hmm, read the thread, people are comparing unbuffed vs buffed tanks v vamp, i just made the point that if they were buffable they would be insane. remove rod from arse please

 

[Raven]

and as for not used in groups, why not? banelord, charge, an attack that goes through BG, vamps dont have any problems gaining mana in a fg fight and with the RR5 ability they can go nuts.

 

[Raven]

oh and also if they have GOLM (which all light tanks should have) they can insta remove rez sickness and be fully "buffed" and ready to go without bothering to get rebuffed.

 

[Belomar]

hmm, read the thread, people are comparing unbuffed vs buffed tanks v vamp, i just made the point that if they were buffable they would be insane. remove rod from arse please

Heh, Raven rearing his ugly, yet luckily clueless, head again. Amusing and easy to wind up, priceless combination.

 

[Puppet]

Skald with Evade1 and 4+9 parry aint exactly highly defensive. This allows the Vamp to get mana to do all their stuff. Basically all the vamp is doing is try to survive the frontload of the skald. If Vamp survives that (should be possible unless the skald has Forceful Zephyr) its a lost cause for the Skald; long fights will always be won by the vampiir due to the nature of the Vampiir (it gets stronger during fights).


DD, DD, melee, mezz............... Ragnarok/Conquerer DD,DD and hope the Vamp is dead by now.

 

[Raven]

Heh, Raven rearing his ugly, yet luckily clueless, head again. Amusing and easy to wind up, priceless combination.

was it not you that started (and usually does) randomly calling everyone clueless because they happen to disagree with you?

 

[knighthood]

It's not clueless - I actually rolled one on Pry/Hib to understand the class I really enjoy playing him. And it's not specifically a whine about Vamps; I'm just responding to a post above. In fact if you bothered to read what I've said I'm bemoaning the Warlocks too...well actually all of the Cata classes are stupid.

I know why I lost to Vamps on a Skald - yes poor defense and vulnerable to thrust I'm dog food - what I don't like are people saying that Vamps will lose every time to a buffed melee class which is what I keep seeing.

Also it's true - a fully buffed high shield/parry spec tank will stand a good chance against a Vamp - except they don't seem to. In theory they should kick the Vamp's arse but it seems to be that just one or two shots that get past the tank's defense are enough to win the fight especially if they power tap and immediately boost their WS up. And I do speak from experience, really I do - and the tale above of my healer and a thane fighting a Vamp and just giving up isn't fabricated it happened and I'm sure it happens a lot.


Again I'll say it - Catacombs classes ruin the game for everyone trying to play a classic or SI class. Nothing can take my Warlock cept a Vamp and nothing can take a Vamp cept Warlocks.

Have to 100% agree with phil here. Even if it is just the BG's and not lvl 50, the fact is, despite me being defensive <24shield 13parry 19crush all +5> Theres no way in hell i can beat a vamp one on one bcoz of his spells. Even at that lvl in the bg's they hit far too hard. And my dmg output cant keep up with the HoT, and if i switch to a 2hand or pole ? then i lose my defense so he can hit me more with wep AND OFC gain more power for his spells. Its a no win situation unless your a crush merc.

 

[RS|Phil]

Wait till you fight them at higher levels - BG4/5 and NF - they're a lot stronger than BG1 in relation to the other classes.

 

[Thegreatest]

Well I've killed Vamps solo several times in thidranki with my Skald, where the vamps seem to shine. Ok I was buffed but not with uber gear, had blue con armor and just 4% thrust resist (add to that the vulnerability to thrust of chain = ouch!). First Vamp I encountered was a lvl 25 one, I did dd dd ragnarok and waited till he casted his hot and just before he could finish his hot casting I mezzed him. Then I waited a few secs to bring my dd's back up, did dd dd ragnarok again and he was at 30% health at that point. Not much he can do, he managed to get 1 hot casted tho but I did too much damage which the hot couldnt keep up with. The few other fights I encountered with Vamps wasn't that hard too, use same tactic and it will work out 8 out of 10 times. Only few times that you'll eat dirt is when your mezz or dd's get resisted a lot. Now I don't know how it will work out in lvl 50 RvR but seems like Vamps are more powerfull in thid than at earlier lvls so think I'll still have a decent chance to kill Vamps as a Skald.

Now dunno why this topic turned into a Vamp whine but I thought I would like to share my view on the Vamp issue

 

[Aeva]

Its a no win situation unless your a crush merc.

I always save my dt for vampiirs, whenever i encounter one i click that and start doing my buisness.. i usually win 80% of the time.

and I'm too embarassed to mention what a certain vamp did to my armsman

 

[RS|Phil]

Now dunno why this topic turned into a Vamp whine but I thought I would like to share my view on the Vamp issue

You will get eaten alive at higher levels believe me

 

[Kagato]

Havent lost to a vampiir yet, although one brehon did manage to take me to 25% when I had a bad start. That was mostly due to me under estimating them though and not using any abilities.

I don't see why a decent armsmen should have trouble with one if buffed.

 

[Asysh_pryd]

A few random points i'd like to make.

First and foremost, do not blame the poor TL's, they care, they really do, and they are doing all they can with the limited power they have. But they cannot change anything, and if they scream and yell at mythic they will just get removed from the programme, those with short memories just look back at the Bezerker TL incident when they nerfed left axe.

As someone already mentioned, the TL program is simply Mythics PR stunt to make it look like they give a shit about player opinions. The truth is Mythic only care about marketing, they force the game down the zerg path so they can get screen shots of 'epic battles' to advertise with, so comparing one class vs another or tank vs caster is pointless, Mythic are looking at a broader picture no one else truely cares about.

But going back to the main topic the main heavy tank problem is two fold, utility and casters.

Utility is the value to the group, as a tank thats either damage or protection. Damage heavy tanks are poor at, we do less over time then our dual weilding cousins and we are more prone to CC due to lack of access to Charge.

So our utility is halved already. Now as for defense our sole redeeming feature is Bodyguarding, which again will only save vs other enemy melee types and for Armsmen this is worse with paladins to compete against.

Now casters, yeah they drop like flys. Oh, But hang on, they don't. Not anymore, with TOA and NF theres hundreds of ways to nullify and reduce melee damage or simply prevent from being hit in the first place, and it only introduced maybe 1 or 2 equivilents for magic damage. Now add this to the uncapped casting speeds and rediculous cast times now and your looking at 3 times the damage of a 2 H tanks at max range + range bonus + height bonus being pumped out 3 times or more in the same time it would take you to swing a polearm once.
And thats before we go into things like snares, roots, unbreakable snares, TWF, ST and good old fashioned kiting, strafing and window dragging lamers.

In short, without really good resistances and IP up a caster has you by the balls and even if you do manage to close the distance they can easily escape melee.

This issue is a big one to solve and don't expect any changes soon, its also something that is shared by heavy tanks from all realms though I do believe armsmen suffer worse in the group ability and utility stakes.

The main solution in my eyes is a big review of casting speeds and resistances and CC, whilst giving heavy tanks some form of unique advantage to make them at least a viable option to a group. Better defense and damage is an option but it doesn't solve utility, and offering a unique advantage to the group is the only thing that will make a heavy tank wanted.

Rarely does a fh post talk sense.

But 9/10 for that