Main Tanks TL's

[knighthood]

Can u give them a poke plz .. Really need to steamroll onto Mythic and make them do something about the classes. Especially Armsman. Considering its supposed to be the MAIN TANK of Albion. When are the main tanks gonna get a bit of love. At least give us x1.5 or x2 hp regen passive so we dont have the stupid dowtime between fights <make it passive as in out of combat would do me>. And also , why would u use a pole or 2hander when a merc outdmg's u. Plate armour is a joke, it doesnt absorb that much more dmg that ive noticed, and it doesnt absorb spell dmg any better. Thats something else tbh ALL MAIN TANKS shuld have is a bonus to spell resists. Maybe and extra +5% base from making one. Theyre slinkin further and further down the usefullness table now

Bored rant and annoyed with my downtime lol.

 

[Thadius]

Can u give them a poke plz .. Really need to steamroll onto Mythic and make them do something about the classes. Especially Armsman. Considering its supposed to be the MAIN TANK of Albion. When are the main tanks gonna get a bit of love. At least give us x1.5 or x2 hp regen passive so we dont have the stupid dowtime between fights <make it passive as in out of combat would do me>. And also , why would u use a pole or 2hander when a merc outdmg's u. Plate armour is a joke, it doesnt absorb that much more dmg that ive noticed, and it doesnt absorb spell dmg any better. Thats something else tbh ALL MAIN TANKS shuld have is a bonus to spell resists. Maybe and extra +5% base from making one. Theyre slinkin further and further down the usefullness table now

Bored rant and annoyed with my downtime lol.

My qq exactly. And I think a lot of the older armsmen would agree

It seems if you want a shield tank, roll a paladin

Give armsmen something that makes them more useful in a group, other than a blockbot

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

We could blame Mythic for giving the Armsman class a strange RR5 or we could blame the groups not grouping the Armsman class or we could do both.

I mean a Hybrid Armsman can provide BG, good damage or extreme frontload damage, 9 second stun, tons of hit points. But then someone gave light tanks charge and made them un-CC-able and I guess a few Banelord Mercs charging someone are way better than a rooted/mezzed Armsman and a Merc charging someone.

I am leveling a HO Pole/Thurst Armsman myself to see how bad the situation really is. So far I like him a lot. Luckily my guild ain't that biased against character types that don't fit into the opted groups that good but I am also quite sure that if you manage to play an Arsman good while being in an opted group, people would prefer you over Merc/Paladin/Reaver.

 

[Thadius]

When I leveled my s/s one, many in my guild or who I leveled with said " Why dont you just roll a paladin?"

Reavers get a bomb(dunno what its like now after they nerfed it), Paladins get chants(good for pve) and armsmen get a moveable crossbow(which they should have anyway, not for achieving rr5)

 

[Elitestoner]

my armsman kills shit just fine ty :O

 

[knighthood]

this isnt about killing thigs, its about the fact armsman get sod all to set them out from the norm. Warriors can spec 50wep 50shield rest parry and most r trolls, thats the highest Wepskill in the game and they get evade. Heros can go moose with that extra hp and crap and also spec a large wep with no base dmg loss. Arms get squat, what use is a pole when it takes 5seconds to swing the damn thing in which time they run or strafed around u or used some other super duper ability. Arms r far from useless, look at Kagato or Lazza, they both superb. But Armsman still need love badly and mythic have made no attempt to improve us at all.

 

[Thadius]

Charge would be good, or an immunity timer where nothing can hit you as you charge towards the enemy

 

[eggy]

Dual pole-wield!!!!

 

[Raven]

some of what you say is true, extra resistance to magic etc, but plate armour a joke??? i would gladly take it off your hands, feel free to try my scale armour.

 

[Dallas]

I am also quite sure that if you manage to play an Arsman good while being in an opted group, people would prefer you over Merc/Paladin/Reaver.

I dont see why people would prefer a good armsman, over a good merc
Theyre no good at bg, pally of friar do that job better..

2h line is great, but just doesent bring anything to the grp that anyone else can do much better, wish they would fix something about it

 

[Flimgoblin]

dunno why you're slating the TLs - they just raise the issues - they can't do anything about it....

 

[Belomar]

Plate armour is a joke, it doesnt absorb that much more dmg that ive noticed, and it doesnt absorb spell dmg any better.

Eh, hello, Mr Clueless, what do you base this on, the observed damage on your level 22 Armsman? And why would plate armor absorb spell damage better, nowhere does it say that it should (except bolt damage)? Yes, main tanks need to be improved, but whine about them should be done in an intelligent fashion.

 

[Bahumat]

dunno why you're slating the TLs - they just raise the issues - they can't do anything about it....

actually they probably can.....they're our point of contact in a way. we give them ideas and they go do stuff with them when they chat to the devs or whomever they speak with

the downside of plate is your weak to crush, i think we are neutral to mid chain and all mid tanks go crush except zerkers....and lets face it they hit soooooo hard anyways they could pwn most ppl with cheese sword/axe

 

[siaka]

actually they probably can.....they're our point of contact in a way. we give them ideas and they go do stuff with them when they chat to the devs or whomever they speak with

try reading one of the tl reports and you will see the tls actually attempt to do a lot for the community, however the standard response by mythic is either 'tabled, need specifics' or 'design decision'.

 

[Mabs]

the TL system is just mythic saying *we pretend we care* has very little effect on anything

and as for armsmen getting love ? pull the other one, its got bells on

 

[Danamyr]

It would be great if Armsmen were given 50 - 100% more HPs, increase their damage by 50 - 100%, give them a decent RR5 RA - something like a 100% magic absorb for 30 secs on 5 min timer, give them free Pole and free 2H so they can spec 50 damage type and 50 Shield and still have 28 Parry

Bet you'd see more then a few running about in NF then

 

[Kagato]

A few random points i'd like to make.

First and foremost, do not blame the poor TL's, they care, they really do, and they are doing all they can with the limited power they have. But they cannot change anything, and if they scream and yell at mythic they will just get removed from the programme, those with short memories just look back at the Bezerker TL incident when they nerfed left axe.

As someone already mentioned, the TL program is simply Mythics PR stunt to make it look like they give a shit about player opinions. The truth is Mythic only care about marketing, they force the game down the zerg path so they can get screen shots of 'epic battles' to advertise with, so comparing one class vs another or tank vs caster is pointless, Mythic are looking at a broader picture no one else truely cares about.

But going back to the main topic the main heavy tank problem is two fold, utility and casters.

Utility is the value to the group, as a tank thats either damage or protection. Damage heavy tanks are poor at, we do less over time then our dual weilding cousins and we are more prone to CC due to lack of access to Charge.

So our utility is halved already. Now as for defense our sole redeeming feature is Bodyguarding, which again will only save vs other enemy melee types and for Armsmen this is worse with paladins to compete against.

Now casters, yeah they drop like flys. Oh, But hang on, they don't. Not anymore, with TOA and NF theres hundreds of ways to nullify and reduce melee damage or simply prevent from being hit in the first place, and it only introduced maybe 1 or 2 equivilents for magic damage. Now add this to the uncapped casting speeds and rediculous cast times now and your looking at 3 times the damage of a 2 H tanks at max range + range bonus + height bonus being pumped out 3 times or more in the same time it would take you to swing a polearm once.
And thats before we go into things like snares, roots, unbreakable snares, TWF, ST and good old fashioned kiting, strafing and window dragging lamers.

In short, without really good resistances and IP up a caster has you by the balls and even if you do manage to close the distance they can easily escape melee.

This issue is a big one to solve and don't expect any changes soon, its also something that is shared by heavy tanks from all realms though I do believe armsmen suffer worse in the group ability and utility stakes.

The main solution in my eyes is a big review of casting speeds and resistances and CC, whilst giving heavy tanks some form of unique advantage to make them at least a viable option to a group. Better defense and damage is an option but it doesn't solve utility, and offering a unique advantage to the group is the only thing that will make a heavy tank wanted.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I don't agree that the TL programme is just PR... but we'll need to see the results of the TL report meeting before we can see that really however some TL report points made it into patch notes of late - and there have been changes in the past based on the problems they highlight (usually not with the solutions the TL suggested or anything remotely resembling them mind you...)

The last lot of feedback was utterly shite though

Kagato hit the nail on the head pretty much with the problems there, lets hope Mythic agree and get around to doing something about it.

Though the pessimist in me says it's gonna be part of champion levels

 

[Crookshanks]

Oooh heavy tank discussion - my favourite

Kagato nailed pretty much everything on the head - whereas other classes have moved ahead with ToA and NF with respect to damage output and avoiding melee damage - the three heavy tanks have remained largely stagnent. Which isn't to say they are a bad class at all - its just other classes are preferred.

The Armsman "appears" particularly poor of the three - which is a misconception in my opinion. The main problem with the Armsman class are Paladins - which are greatly superior when it comes to defensive work. AF self buff, same defense (plate + large shields), self healing (awesome for keeping aggro in pve) and end chants (not to mention damage adds and all the resists), plus the same ML paths. Paladins have not-too-dissimilar hit points too with constitution being their primary stat. All that Paladins lack is damage output - yet in the current game spell damage greatly outweighs melee damage anyway.

Offensively specced - an armsman (and the other heavy tanks) approach the damage of a light tank - with all the problems of using a single weapon vs duel wield (pbt, shield guards, evade). I think this is justified however - if a heavy tank out damaged a light tank - what would the point of the light tank be?

In my opinion - the solution would be increased hit points for all three heavy tanks - as Danamyr said as much as 50% would be a huge boost. There would be no need for spell resistance boosts, or increased armour absorb - the heavy tanks would simply live up to their name "heavy" and take the punishment. I think its rediculous today that the light tanks have as much health as the heavy tanks - what exactly is "light" about them (other than downrated armour + 360 degree evade)?

 

[Mabs]

there are lots of things they could do to improve the tanks in general, and armsmen
any 2h weap/pole auto goes thru blade turn ?
more hp ?
magic bladeturn for bolts etc?
all this and more has been suggested before, mythic just tell em where to stick it
personal favourite would be the new armour types *heavy* plate/chain/scale, for heavy tanks only with extra 5-10% abs on it
but it wont ever happen so uke:

 

[Kagato]

I don't agree that the TL programme is just PR... but we'll need to see the results of the TL report meeting before we can see that really however some TL report points made it into patch notes of late - and there have been changes in the past based on the problems they highlight (usually not with the solutions the TL suggested or anything remotely resembling them mind you...)

The last lot of feedback was utterly shite though

Kagato hit the nail on the head pretty much with the problems there, lets hope Mythic agree and get around to doing something about it.

Though the pessimist in me says it's gonna be part of champion levels

The TL program has been around for a very long time now, and after all these years theres still next to nothing that has been acted upon from it, and I would not be suprised if its pure coincidence that the few items that were fixed as a TL suggested got acted upon by Mythic.

I feel sorry for the TL's, they put alot of time, effort and heart into their reports and its not appreciated by Mythic or given any encouragement, it must be a frustrating task. If I had more spare time i'd of been tempted to try it but would probably end up hurling abuse at Mythic

 

[knighthood]

Eh, hello, Mr Clueless, what do you base this on, the observed damage on your level 22 Armsman? And why would plate armor absorb spell damage better, nowhere does it say that it should (except bolt damage)? Yes, main tanks need to be improved, but whine about them should be done in an intelligent fashion.

Actually i had a 44 pally before , my point is, its supposed to be the most efficent armour in the game and yet i never noticed a HUGE difference between the absorbtion of chain, mind u, its been so long since i used that char i couldve just forgotten lol

 

[RS|Phil]

All tanks need charge and then it'd be fine. Makes me giggle that Wagner wrote a song about Valk's charging.... and we don't get charge

Seems the song should be (for DAOC) Wagner's afamed Slow Jog of the Valkryies - till they get mezzed.

 

[knighthood]

And to add, Q_Q to me too but... Im a heavy tank shield and parry specced for bg1. 19crush 24shield parry13 all +5. Vamps r weak to crush <hib leather> and yet, depsite my hmm think its 760 maybe more unbuffed HP i cant kill a vamp one on one. And im capped to hell in good armour ect.. And this is supposed to be the Defensive tank ? . That stupid claw move they have every 2 secs eats through my hp in seconds its pathetic. I agree with the other poster about our HP , arms shuld have about an extra 15-20% hp than they do have. Being killed by a crappy 20dmg pierce user cos im unbuffed is just bullshit. And yes i know how to play my class .

Hey look i changed it into a vamp whine thread too
I hope a unbuffed arms shield specced at 50 could take a vamp solo or this games become very silly indeed.

 

[Belomar]

A Vampiir is always buffed; come back with buffs and you will see that you will be able to kill that Vamp pretty easily. Having said that, at higher levels, Vampiirs really struggle against targets with high defence. High defence means that they don't get to hit the enemy often, and this means that they can never build up the mana reserve to start clawing you every 2 seconds. So, yes, it's better at high levels.

 

[knighthood]

Thank god for that lol
is it true they can break 900hp in thid btw, cos my arms had base con of 85 normal cap +14con cap, buffed with +13% buff bonus by a lvl 24 buffbott in thid and i only break 890. :O

teh sillyness continues

 

[Belomar]

Vamps obey the same rules for buffs as other characters. However, my Shar Vampiir had 80 base con at creation, and this is a rising stat, so 109 con at L24. From what I remember, I was above 900 or close to it...

 

[Raven]

the whole point of a vamp is that it doesnt use buffs (already has them) asking for them to be buffable would just make them even more powerfull at lvl 50 rvr.

 

[Belomar]

Hmm, read the thread, I don't think anyone is asking for them to be buffable?

 

[RS|Phil]

This crap about Vamps struggling at higher levels against shield tanks is nonsense but I'll get to that in a moment.

Hibs are also saying that Vamps don't do as well at higher levels against any melee class - well how is it (ok this is only 40-44) that every fight I've had with my skald in BG5 against a Vamp I've had my arse handed to me by a huuuge margin. I aren't kidding - I lose big time. I'm fairly well off resist wise and always fully buffed - yet the Vamp beats the fook out of my Hammer Skald in every way you can imagine. I'll hit him for 250 dmg with 2h and he'll hit me back for 120-150 but he'll get two hits in for my one then also cast two spells which hit me for anything from 200-300 - can you say ouch? My 1800 HP soon go bye bye.

And now about the shield tanks vs Vamps - Ok it will take the vamp slightly longer to get them down its true but its not as if you can block and parry their spells so once they have a bit of power its nuke nuke heal nuke nuke nuke /laugh /F8

I was duoing with my healer and a thane once and came across a Vamp. The Thane laid into the vamp and we had him on 20% fast but one hit landed on the Thane turned the tide as the Vamp turned on his HoT - in the end I'd burned my whole power bar healing, DI and MCL and I just got the Thane to step out of combat, rooted the Vamp and we just left him there.

This is more and more what I'm doing now in all situations - if I see a vamp I'll just mez or root and ignore him cos there's no way I feel I can beat them in a fair fight


To be frank, the problem isn't Vamps (tho it is kinda) it's Catacombs. At least, for Warlocks and Vamps it is - Heretics not so much but they can be a bitch. Since Catacombs came out Mid and Hib (obviously) are playing their new super OP classes which just ruin the game for everyone - My warlock kills everyone, and often kills Vamps. Vamps kill everyone else cept buffed Warlocks. It's shite - the new classes are just insane and ruining the game for anyone who wants to play anything else.