Lotus Notes v Microsoft Outlook

[Lamp]

We use Lotus Notes in our company. Everyone hates it. We all prefer Microsoft Outlook. When I worked for US / UK companies we had MO. When I worked for Dutch / German companies they used LN.

Doesn't MO get bundled with the other MS Office apps when it comes to issuing corporate user licences ? We have over 100,000 users in our company.

Is LN a cheaper licence ? Do Lotus Notes give European incorporated companies bigger discounts than UK / US clients ?

 

[Chronictank]

Thunderbird is by far the superior mail program tbh (and free)
http://www.mozilla.com/thunderbird/
In terms of deployment there isnt the endless registry keys and no single point of faliure (i.e the .pst file),
the only real problems i found was that it had problems converting some IMAP in boxes, i'm not sure what the outcome of that was as i moved to a new department before it was resolved.

And if you want a free open source version of "office" try Open Office by Sun
http://www.openoffice.org/
Its very easy to manage as there are very few registry keys, most of the functions are controlled by XML files which you can edit by hand if you want.
Only things really to be weary of are the fact that all the applications run under the Open Office engine not seperatly,
as a result all global settings are manged by one file and the app specific changes are managed by another. I cant remember what the files were off hand but its very obvious so not hard to find at all

 

[Alan]

ROFLMAO.

You try installing thunderbird or OpenOffice on a companies workstation to use instead of the standards - youll be out that door quicker than you can say "opps"

Its not just the client you have to consider its the back end servers.

We run LN here and i hate it, would love to go back to an outlook+exchange environment but theres no chance of that at all.

Outlook was included with Office pro back in the old days when I used to use it, im sure its teh case now if you go for the enterprise edition of office - youll get outlook included.

At the end of the day if your companies standard is Lotus Notes - deal with it.

 

[Chronictank]

ROFLMAO.

You try installing thunderbird or OpenOffice on a companies workstation to use instead of the standards - youll be out that door quicker than you can say "opps"

Its not just the client you have to consider its the back end servers.

We run LN here and i hate it, would love to go back to an outlook+exchange environment but theres no chance of that at all.

Outlook was included with Office pro back in the old days when I used to use it, im sure its teh case now if you go for the enterprise edition of office - youll get outlook included.

At the end of the day if your companies standard is Lotus Notes - deal with it.

Actually quite the oposite,
firstly Open Office is free and open source which is a big incentive as from what he says he has little/no money to play with for liscences.
Secondly he didnt specify whether it was a manged system or 100,000 stand alones, either way its pretty irrelevant both run on a server aswell as on stand alone clients.
And if you ever actually used open office (which by your responce shows you never have), it is pretty much the same/close to the MS Office Suite aswell as tools to convert existing Office, Works and Lotus files to the Open Office standard and vice versa.

As for thunderbird, client side doesnt really matter now does it? The main infrastructure will be the same regardless what mail client the user is using to look at the mail. Thunderbird has a nice interface and supports all mainstream protocols (altho i prefer to recommend IMAP to users for the sake of backing up all their mail).

Lotus is and i wouldnt touch it with a barge pole to be quite honest.

Maybe i misunderstood his question, but far as i can see he is talking about what software his clients are going to be running not the server side infrastructure, aswell as the fact i was talking about running them along side to give the users more choice

 

[Lamp]

I'm just curious why my organisation would choose LN over Outlook, given that the latter is a far superior product. Is it that Microsoft multi-user corporate licences are too expensive ?

 

[Chronictank]

I'm just curious why my organisation would choose LN over Outlook, given that the latter is a far superior product. Is it that Microsoft multi-user corporate licences are too expensive ?

Lotus is cheaper yes afaik

 

[Alan]

Actually quite the oposite,
firstly Open Office is free and open source which is a big incentive as from what he says he has little/no money to play with for liscences.
Secondly he didnt specify whether it was a manged system or 100,000 stand alones, either way its pretty irrelevant both run on a server aswell as on stand alone clients.
And if you ever actually used open office (which by your responce shows you never have), it is pretty much the same/close to the MS Office Suite aswell as tools to convert existing Office, Works and Lotus files to the Open Office standard and vice versa.

As for thunderbird, client side doesnt really matter now does it? The main infrastructure will be the same regardless what mail client the user is using to look at the mail. Thunderbird has a nice interface and supports all mainstream protocols (altho i prefer to recommend IMAP to users for the sake of backing up all their mail).

Lotus is and i wouldnt touch it with a barge pole to be quite honest.

Maybe i misunderstood his question, but far as i can see he is talking about what software his clients are going to be running not the server side infrastructure, aswell as the fact i was talking about running them along side to give the users more choice

Sorry but your completely wrong here.

It doesnt matter if you have server based computing or stand alone, if you try to install software on to any half decent companies workstation without authorisation - no matter if its free - your going to get a bollocking.

Your also way off the mark with open office, we investigated its use but due to the amount of complex Access databases and Excel spreadsheets incorporating VBCode it was decided that a switch over was not cost effective. Just because something is FREE doesnt mean its a possability, also what would be the cost in rolling out open office to 100,000 clients accross 15 sites throughout the UK ?

As for email - if you are just using a standard POP or IMAP then sure Thunderbird would be a possability, but every company I have worked for uses other features of a mail system such as notes/exchange including the address book, public folders/databases and distribution lists and custom integrated applications.

!!! You cant just take some software off the net and install it on your PC at work !!! its people like me that have to clear up the mess users make trying to do this.

 

[Loki]

For me its just the other way around, i prefer LN over MO.
I find that most ppl who dislikes LN, is cause they dont use all the possibilities LN has to offer. They use it as a mail program, which is only a fraction of what LN can do.

I may be biased tho, I work a LN developer and administrator

Loki

 

[Alan]

Just as an example.

Today with LN :-

• Sent an email to a centrally maintained distribution list
• Created a change controll request in a notes database
• Sync'd the notes calendar with my phone calendar
• Automaticaly moved status emails to a custom folder (via rules)
• Located a company policy using the notes DB search
• Arranged a tech meeting through the calendar

So yeah sure Thunderbird can do all that ?

Now as for Open source, yup its cool - i use firefox, thunderbird and open office at home on the main pc and linux for the firewall,mail server, teamspeak server, test web sites etc. Open source has its place, but if you want that place to be the working office you need to do it properly not just tell someone "yeah thunderbird is cool - go download it and install it"

 

[Ryuno]

And if you ever actually used open office (which by your responce shows you never have), it is pretty much the same/close to the MS Office Suite aswell as tools to convert existing Office, Works and Lotus files to the Open Office standard and vice versa.

To quote you directly: if you ever actually used open office (which by your responce shows you never have) you would know that Open Office doesn't come with a database program (aka Access in Microsoft Office).

I love open source products, I work on and use many myself. But there is a time and a place for them, and blindingly using them just because they are free is not always the best option. You have to look at the bigger picture.

Thunderbird is a great program. I use it at work and at home, but it doesn't offer many of the features in other programs, like a Calendar and other things. Which is why it isn't the standard in many companies.

 

[Chronictank]

Just as an example.

Today with LN :-

• Sent an email to a centrally maintained distribution list
• Created a change controll request in a notes database
• Sync'd the notes calendar with my phone calendar
• Automaticaly moved status emails to a custom folder (via rules)
• Located a company policy using the notes DB search
• Arranged a tech meeting through the calendar

So yeah sure Thunderbird can do all that ?

Now as for Open source, yup its cool - i use firefox, thunderbird and open office at home on the main pc and linux for the firewall,mail server, teamspeak server, test web sites etc. Open source has its place, but if you want that place to be the working office you need to do it properly not just tell someone "yeah thunderbird is cool - go download it and install it"

didnt say unauthorised install sorry to all who thought i did, ofc you need to go through the proper channel as Tears said its a BIG nono.
I misunderstood him and thought he was the person doing the installs on all the servers for people, hence ahd access to get the software authorised.
My mistake and your 100% right, you cant just install stuff on work machines.

All depends on what the company uses tbh, we have the MO and Lotus but we use Corporate Time to organise everything

To quote you directly: if you ever actually used open office (which by your responce shows you never have) you would know that Open Office doesn't come with a database program (aka Access in Microsoft Office).

it does, it's called Base

 

[Lamp]

My company has 100,000+ employees located in 60 countries worldwide. Almost everyone I've spoken to dislikes Lotus Notes. Our LN servers go down on a daily basis. Users constantly moaning at the lack of user-friendliness and office features. My product technicians constantly complain about its lack of robustness in hosting database applications, and users complain that if such applications crash they can't use their email client either as they're on the same server.

We have a strict policy that no one is to download anything from the internet without approval - for obvious reasons. You can't just log on and download an email client !

I need to decide the viability of scrapping LN for Microsoft Outlook.

 

[Alan]

My company has 100,000+ employees located in 60 countries worldwide. Almost everyone I've spoken to dislikes Lotus Notes. Our LN servers go down on a daily basis. Users constantly moaning at the lack of user-friendliness and office features. My product technicians constantly complain about its lack of robustness in hosting database applications, and users complain that if such applications crash they can't use their email client either as they're on the same server.

We have a strict policy that no one is to download anything from the internet without approval - for obvious reasons. You can't just log on and download an email client !

I need to decide the viability of scrapping LN for Microsoft Outlook.

The problem is once you have an email soloution in place its pretty hard to change it.

- New hardware
You would almost certainly look for a phased switch over so need hardware to cope with that

- Licence cost
Naturaly you already have LN licences and possibly support contracts with IBM - how much would the same be for MS Exchange, also if the clients are not licenced for the full blown office youll need to upgrade/purchase for outlook

- Clients
Are the clients able to run outlook ? I know from experience the notes client is a little less gready for resources

- Consultancy
Even the brigtest of people would probably look at getting a MS Exchange expert in to provide some advice on a change over

- Convertion
How many system so you have that plug into notes, not just databases and custom apps but other systems that point to notes as an email gateway, we have quiete a few systems here that use notes as a SNTP gateway

- Roll Out
How much is it going to cost to visit all the sites and all the computers to change them over

- Training
There will be some people in the organisation that have never used outlook before, and others that need a brush up.


and thats just from the top of my head - your gona need some serious ££££'s imo - but its a change I would love to see in our company

Outlook ->

Notes ->

 

[Lamp]

Changing from LN to MO in an organisation as big as mine is going to be a massive project. As you point out, its gonna cost bucks too. Just as well we made record pre-tax profits Q4, 2005 !

 

[Naffets]

I use LN 6.5 at work, can't fault it really. Quite nice.

 

[Lamp]

The Calendar in LN sucks. No reminder pop ups. If someone sends an amended meeting through, you can't accept it and therefore update the old meeting time.

Or maybe you can, but no one can seem to get it to work as well as MO's Calendar feature.

 

[Alan]

The Calendar in LN sucks. No reminder pop ups. If someone sends an amended meeting through, you can't accept it and therefore update the old meeting time.

Or maybe you can, but no one can seem to get it to work as well as MO's Calendar feature.

Thats working ok here, i quite often get updates to a calendar item, click the ACCEPT button and its done... and then every 10 mins sync'd to the calendar on my phone over bluetooth - damn i love technology.

 

[Lamp]

Our USB ports are disabled - need written permission signed in triplicate and written in the blood before they'll let any non-IT person get access to their USB port hehe so can't insert a Blutooth dongle.

(Anyone else think "dongle" sounds rude ? hehe)

 

[Alan]

Our USB ports are disabled - need written permission signed in triplicate and written in the blood before they'll let any non-IT person get access to their USB port hehe so can't insert a Blutooth dongle.

(Anyone else think "dongle" sounds rude ? hehe)

Ahh..... shame there arn't as many dongles around now... so many memories

"I cant get my dongle in right, ive tugged at it but it wont come off"

---

I guess working on the IT team helps here Purchased my own bluetooth USB thing with a massive range, i can be upstairs in a meeting room and the calender still syncs

 

[Ryuno]

it does, it's called Base

aye your right, new to version 2. my bad

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

We use Lotus Notes in our company. Everyone hates it. We all prefer Microsoft Outlook. When I worked for US / UK companies we had MO. When I worked for Dutch / German companies they used LN.

Doesn't MO get bundled with the other MS Office apps when it comes to issuing corporate user licences ? We have over 100,000 users in our company.

Is LN a cheaper licence ? Do Lotus Notes give European incorporated companies bigger discounts than UK / US clients ?

You Can youse MO with Lotus .. why do i know this ...

because i used to be a network eng and a Lotus notes admin .......
I hated using Notes so i read up on MO and found it is possible =)

 

[Alan]

You Can youse MO with Lotus .. why do i know this ...

because i used to be a network eng and a Lotus notes admin .......
I hated using Notes so i read up on MO and found it is possible =)

You can use ANY pop client to access a notes email account - but you will not gain access to the notes database, calendar, address books... yada ...yada... yada...

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

You can use ANY pop client to access a notes email account - but you will not gain access to the notes database, calendar, address books... yada ...yada... yada...

well ya dateabases right you can't , but calendar and address books you can =) .. but it's been a good 6 years since i even though about that crap i've forgotten