lo m8erz, infils r weak

[Gesta]

This is my personal thought on the matter

I dont think theres a huge difference imo between the classes, I'm competing quite well and have even found myself outdamaging infs.

But I do have to say theres a lot more bad SBs than there are good ones, I 'm not going to mention names cause I dont generally care what rr or who is in front of me, I'm still going to attack them. But I rarely lose to a SB and have had some good fights with them which generally means they are able to compete with the right setup and the right tactics.

An Inf though is normally a very tough opponent whether they are skilled or not. Generally cause they all normally do same or more dmg than I do.

I'm not a great believer in stats, I'm more of a believer in how you play the game but it would be foolish to deny that infs don't outperform all stealthers.

After 3 years (including beta) playing mostly a stealth class, since the 2.5 points that infs received they have always been the toughest cookie to beat and it's always very satisfying to beat one. Purely because when they they have the best equipment they kick ass and when they have that plus relics which they dont normally have then they are obviously going to kick ass even more.

Everyone who plays the game probably already knows this and to deny it just causes my head to shake in disbelief at there ignorance.

Btw this isnt a whine or a call to nerf infs, I enjoy beating them even more knowing the fact that they have 20% more dmg output.

 

[Gesta]

because he's from birmingham,


DUH!!!!!!!!!!!11

excellent, I shall inform all of Birmingham of their nobleness except any that are villa fans.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

why would we need proof to prove something any semi skilled assassin regardless of realm already knows?
becos i dont see any reason we should prove anything to you, becos there aint anything you can do about it if we proved it with loads of logs/screenies and videos anyway.

Ah welcome to myth and rumour land - always the same.

What logs? What screenies? Not the rare anomolies and exceptional cases that crop up every now and then, or the edited videos - but hard and fast controlled tests. See you get lots of Sbs referencing these, but no-ones got them.

So if you've got the proof post it - but I'm guessing you've heard of them, or based your opinions on partial information, one offs and edited highlights.

Consider - if someone was to put together and edited highlights video of a Sb wtfpwnzing everything would you accept it as definite proof SBs needed a nerf? Because thats what you're advocating here.

 

[Gesta]

Still have the one for chubbiest doof runie? ;D

Yes I often polish my piece with fondest memories of my time in mid with yourself....and the trophy isnt bad either :wub:

i think you'll also find it was an award for being vertically challenged

 

[Aussie]

Ive got Mop4

ever considered mop3 & str3 would give alot better dmg output ..?
there's 24str difference between my scout & your sb. since norse get 10 more str then briton & you didnt even take aug str ,
my guess your gimp suit got about +14str cap . pathetic if its true

Quickness 128

I doubt you get 250quickcap = loss of dps.

MoS4

the "I need free rps from scouts" RA? i'm sure thats gonna help you alot against infils. Defensive shit worthless in combat. too many points. 3 should be enough. 10 points to spend on Thoughness 3.

Vanish1

Defensive Luxe RA, Worthless in fights. You never had it, live without it. Empty Mind 1. 10% resist boost for 45sec on 5min reuse timer. Looks like Avoid Pain for Legendaries.

but hey I have no clue at all according to mistar r6 xD
ignore me

 

[Chronictank]

Ah welcome to myth and rumour land - always the same.

What logs? What screenies? Not the rare anomolies and exceptional cases that crop up every now and then, or the edited videos - but hard and fast controlled tests. See you get lots of Sbs referencing these, but no-ones got them.

So if you've got the proof post it - but I'm guessing you've heard of them, or based your opinions on partial information, one offs and edited highlights.

Consider - if someone was to put together and edited highlights video of a Sb wtfpwnzing everything would you accept it as definite proof SBs needed a nerf? Because thats what you're advocating here.

[url="http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ccaaadd/sb_vrs_infil.avi]Cleric AF Effect[/url]
Streamable but 100 people ganking wont give u the best connection in the world

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

This is my personal thought on the matter

I dont think theres a huge difference imo between the classes, I'm competing quite well and have even found myself outdamaging infs.

But I do have to say theres a lot more bad SBs than there are good ones, I 'm not going to mention names cause I dont generally care what rr or who is in front of me, I'm still going to attack them. But I rarely lose to a SB and have had some good fights with them which generally means they are able to compete with the right setup and the right tactics.

An Inf though is normally a very tough opponent whether they are skilled or not. Generally cause they all normally do same or more dmg than I do.

I'm not a great believer in stats, I'm more of a believer in how you play the game but it would be foolish to deny that infs don't outperform all stealthers.

After 3 years (including beta) playing mostly a stealth class, since the 2.5 points that infs received they have always been the toughest cookie to beat and it's always very satisfying to beat one. Purely because when they they have the best equipment they kick ass and when they have that plus relics which they dont normally have then they are obviously going to kick ass even more.

Everyone who plays the game probably already knows this and to deny it just causes my head to shake in disbelief at there ignorance.

Btw this isnt a whine or a call to nerf infs, I enjoy beating them even more knowing the fact that they have 20% more dmg output.

The interesting thing here is that for a NS an infil is the toughest class - and as you say sometimes you beat them on damage and sometimes they beat you (relics ignored for now). Funnily enough for an infil the same is said of a ns. Its because these 2 are the closest (personally I think the NS has an edge at RR5).

SBs are very predictable when you fight them - odds on the will have battler/malice, odds on they will either purge the debuff or sit and wait for a stun to purge - but they are fixated with purging. And odds on they will have 1 or more friends and you will know where on the bridges.docks.tower routes they'll be camping. Poisons are usually weak.

NS on the other hand are a bastiche to fight - they use weapons more effectively and more situationally, they have good poisons and i'm running into more viper 3 NS than i'd like too. They're a much tougher fight than SBs and I think although fights with them post NF are less i've lost more to NS than i've won. But i do have a lot to learn about fighting shades still.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

[url="http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ccaaadd/sb_vrs_infil.avi]Cleric AF Effect[/url]
Streamable but 100 people ganking wont give u the best connection in the world

Af effect known but a non issue as all realms can get this as a charge with +%buff taking effect. Talk to Haldar - he runs with 718 af.

Next non issue please.

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

Ah welcome to myth and rumour land - always the same.

What logs? What screenies? Not the rare anomolies and exceptional cases that crop up every now and then, or the edited videos - but hard and fast controlled tests. See you get lots of Sbs referencing these, but no-ones got them.

So if you've got the proof post it - but I'm guessing you've heard of them, or based your opinions on partial information, one offs and edited highlights.

Consider - if someone was to put together and edited highlights video of a Sb wtfpwnzing everything would you accept it as definite proof SBs needed a nerf? Because thats what you're advocating here.

i rely on my own experiense only, and my experiense is that SB is underperforming.
you assume i do this and that and assumed i had been inactive for ages since it says "on vacation" in my sig and assumed my knowledge about the subject was outdated, well HELLO mister i repeat i dont have to prove anything to you, i havent done any tests but experiensing with different RA's and Specs have turned out useless cos with 3 str relics we where as even with infils as we'll ever been since LA nerf and without them we are a joke regardless of uber templates and items.
secondly who the fuck are you to demand proof?
why do you care so much about the subject as you dont even own a SB and we aint "yelling nerf your class" but merely want balance for our own class wich btw can only mean boost SB or nerf 90% of the other classes in the game.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

i rely on my own experiense only, and my experiense is that SB is underperforming.
you assume i do this and that and assumed i had been inactive for ages since it says "on vacation" in my sig and assumed my knowledge about the subject was outdated, well HELLO mister i repeat i dont have to prove anything to you, i havent done any tests but experiensing with different RA's and Specs have turned out useless cos with 3 str relics we where as even with infils as we'll ever been since LA nerf and without them we are a joke regardless of uber templates and items.
secondly who the fuck are you to demand proof?
why do you care so much about the subject as you dont even own a SB and we aint "yelling nerf your class" but merely want balance for our own class wich btw can only mean boost SB or nerf 90% of the other classes in the game.

So you rely on your own experience.

Experience can be limited, misleading or narrow. It can lead to incorrect assumptions and bias. I suggest you balance your experience with some proper tests, as i believe your experience has slipped into misconception and inaccuracy.

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

So you rely on your own experience.

Experience can be limited, misleading or narrow. It can lead to incorrect assumptions and bias. I suggest you balance your experience with some proper tests, as i believe your experience has slipped into misconception and inaccuracy.

so 99% of SB population along with several infil/scout/NS population is wrong and you are right?
that's narrowminded

 

[Aussie]

so 99% of SB population is wrong

worthless you mean, yes.

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

worthless you mean, yes.

don't refrase and use it in quotes cos that wasnt a quote of me.
i suspect many ppl in daoc played doom with god mode on, i didnt but i didnt play on "nighmare" either wich is the way every SB does atm.

 

[Nalistah]

ever considered mop3 & str3 would give alot better dmg output ..?
there's 24str difference between my scout & your sb. since norse get 10 more str then briton & you didnt even take aug str ,
my guess your gimp suit got about +14str cap . pathetic if its true

I have capped str and +18 cap increase. Couldnt have more if I wanted to have some decent resists. AND I have played with MoP3 and AugStr3 intstead of MoP4 and Str2.
And I can totally say that MoP4 and Str2 ->>>>> MoP3 and Str3.
Atleast what i felt when playing.

I doubt you get 250quickcap = loss of dps.

No, I dont reach the cap fully, If i should, I have to sacrifice other important things in template, and I dont feel like getting arseraped from some r2 with, lets say Spirit weapons. And Im not very far from that cap anyway. And how much dps u think I loose from this? not noticable.

the "I need free rps from scouts" RA? i'm sure thats gonna help you alot against infils. Defensive shit worthless in combat. too many points. 3 should be enough. 10 points to spend on Thoughness 3.

This, I have considered many times, and im thinking of going MoS3, but MoS4 improves a whole bunch when playing critblade, but what do u know about that?

Defensive Luxe RA, Worthless in fights. You never had it, live without it. Empty Mind 1. 10% resist boost for 45sec on 5min reuse timer. Looks like Avoid Pain for Legendaries.

Ofcourse its worthless DURING fights, but its only 5pts, and it can save your ASS from /release, rebuff, portback and that whole 20min-scenario. Its well worth 5pts.

but hey I have no clue at all according to mistar r6 xD
ignore me

When you have a screenshot on previous page, that I can tell you have seen. There u see "+6 to ALL specs" .. and still you come with a reply as "but hey I have no clue at all according to mistar r6" .. That one means you don't know that +6 to all specs means RR7 .. lal, You can't really be that clueless, can you?

And yet again, what teh fk has Str/MoS/etc to do with the amount of dmg an infil hits me for? That's what this thread is about. So keep to the topic.

zZZZz

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

so 99% of SB population along with several infil/scout/NS population is wrong and you are right?
that's narrowminded

And 83.2% of all people have a 77.3% chance of making up 56% of statistics on the spot.

 

[Killrake]

Give SBs dexbased weapons and/or dex/quick debuff poison, that would help a little anyway, not all though

 

[Summoner]

I can not remember the exact time it happen, if it was just before, or just after LA-nerf, but I believe it was just before.

Albs had managed to get all strength relics, and the first person I meet in Emain when I relaised they'd gotten them when I logged on after work the next day was Sbfoff or whatever he's called, but it was let alone a slash-infil. Not sure it's even worth telling that he won the fight with 85% left, and was hitting for 300-400 damage or so.
Wish I had screenshots to back it up, but they're deleted, so I don't.
This was pre-ToA and my sb had the best possible suit to get in that patch, so that wasn't really an issue.
Sbfoff was at max rr5 that time so rr wasn't an issue either.

Now lets think back to the real reason LA was tooned down, yes it was because of berserkers + frenzy, and the whiners who made ss's only when they got hit for much, and not the avrage damage. (Yes, the growthrate test did play a major factor too, but do you know that main factor doublefrost have such a HUGE end use? It was to justify it's damage, its damage was tooned down, but end usage wasn't. Don't you find that kinda silly?) I don't justify their damage, it was to high, but sb's on the other hand had the advantage because of the relics, not the LA growthrate. SBs and infils would've been on par if they've had equal amount of bonus from relics. And if it had been a slash-infil vs a sb, and not a thrust infil, because that person would meet 36%+ resist.

So people have forgotten that SB's was totaly overlooked when they tooned down LA. A correction was mabe needed, but not in that scale. For berserkers on the other hand I'm not suprised it happened, but those screenshots that was taken and made complains about was from people who had gone totaly frontload, as in 35 qui, and if lucky even gotten help from their apponant and gotten haste debuffed.

This flaw, if I may call it that, does now shine more then ever, because now mids have lost the only thing that did hide the difference.


PS. He who say that whine doesn't help and idolize what's written on VN boards (there is a reason nearly 90% of eu players believe it's only rubbish that comes from those boards). A needed correction was added to the Amber Caba pet to toon down the stunrate, and what happen? It was corrected back the next day, because of peoples spontaneous heavy whine.
(If you're wondering why I do not play SB anymore. I can tell you that I stopped playing it before 1.62 because of the stealthzergs.)


-Inwe-

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

lol - if you think whining works then keep trying. it hasn't for 10 patches, but hey mebbe in another 10, or 20.....

Wyrds nos show LA still has a higher dps than CD/DW - but then whats he know, he's only the zerker TL....

 

[Summoner]

lol - if you think whining works then keep trying. it hasn't for 10 patches, but hey mebbe in another 10, or 20.....

Wyrds nos show LA still has a higher dps than CD/DW - but then whats he know, he's only the zerker TL....

You're not actually original, each time I read a replay written by you it's sounding more like clichés than ever.

If you can't prove me wrong, why replay? Then influence VN have had on your mind, has fried your braincells long time ago.

And why don't you grante Vodkafairy the information he ask for? Wasn't it you who said that the truth comes from raw data? Why be afraid? We allready know there is no meaning to any of your words.

Lets make a real life senario. If two people want a job, and one have abit more knowledge then the other person, but the other person on the other hand have 20 years of experience and have managed to build up a reputation. Who do you think would get the job?

And you're going to test a car and trust fully on raw data where you've managed to calculate how long it takes the car to stop from the time you hit the breaks. In reality would that length be correct?


-Inwe-

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

You're not actually original, each time I read a replay written by you it's sounding more like clichés than ever.

If you can't prove me wrong, why replay? Then influence VN have had on your mind, has fried your braincells long time ago.

And why don't you grante Vodkafairy the information he ask for? Wasn't it you who said that the truth comes from raw data? Why be afraid? We allready know there is no meaning to any of your words.

Lets make a real life senario. If two people want a job, and one have abit more knowledge then the other person, but the other person on the other hand have 20 years of experience and have managed to build up a reputation. Who do you think would get the job?

And you're going to test a car and trust fully on raw data where you've managed to calculate how long it takes the car to stop from the time you hit the breaks. In reality would that length be correct?


-Inwe-

lol - yes because a game governed entirely by mathematics is the same as a job interview....And besides - having held job interviews - it isn't always the one with more experience that gets the job.

And yes - given all the criteria you could calculate how long that car would take to stop.


So 2 more incorrect or irrelevant examples and your point is?

 

[Summoner]

lol - yes because a game governed entirely by mathematics is the same as a job interview....And besides - having held job interviews - it isn't always the one with more experience that gets the job.

And yes - given all the criteria you could calculate how long that car would take to stop.


So 2 more incorrect or irrelevant examples and your point is?

You can mabe get close, but you won't be anywhere near correct on the length.
Other senarios would've had influence on the jobs then, but an experienced person with huge reputation gives the company a better PR, but it might just as well work the other way around if they want it to.

Rather give some hard facts about your char than babling shit.

So far from all information you've given people they can draw three conclutions: "1. You're low realmrank. 2. You've no experience 3. Your suit, yet expensive, is shit."


-Inwe-

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

You can mabe get close, but you won't be anywhere near correct on the length.
Other senarios would've had influence on the jobs then, but an experienced person with huge reputation gives the company a better PR, but it might just as well work the other way around if they want it to.

Rather give some hard facts about your char than babling shit.

So far from all information you've given people they can draw three conclutions: "1. You're low realmrank. 2. You've no experience 3. Your suit, yet expensive, is shit."


-Inwe-

Ah yes, classic tactic - when you're wrong and have no substance then bluster.

1. Has no effect on mathematics, tests and hard facts.
2. Has no effect on mathematics, tests and hard facts.
3. Quite possibly true, yet has no effect on mathematics, tests and hard facts.

Want another go?

 

[Summoner]

Stand forward, make people who is capable to provide tests and hard facts do so. If you don't then you don't even believe what you've been claiming for over 30 pages.


-Inwe-

 

[Wmv]

Dragonfang VS Aom3+Em2

To bad it doesnt leave me with many points left over for some offensive RA´s and is completly wasted vs slash infils and many other classes who doesnt use Legendary weaps

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

Stand forward, make people who is capable to provide tests and hard facts do so. If you don't then you don't even believe what you've been claiming for over 30 pages.


-Inwe-

Not sure what you're saying?

Are you suggesting that because you think theres something wrong with your class I should test it to disprove your opinion? Sorry lad, thats your territory - you think somethings wrong and you want a fix> Far as I'm concerned its all OK as is.

 

[Summoner]

Not sure what you're saying?

Are you suggesting that because you think theres something wrong with your class I should test it to disprove your opinion? Sorry lad, thats your territory - you think somethings wrong and you want a fix> Far as I'm concerned its all OK as is.

My class ? You must be joking.

If I face you alone with my main, I'll win!
If I face you alone and you get in PA + CD, I'll win!

Why, oh why do I claim this?

Absorb what I've said, think about it then try find my main and even you will understand...
(This just proves that you don't even read what's written before handing out your cards saying, prove it, convince me etc. (Even though you admit you're afraid to prove any of your own claims.))


-Inwe-

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

My class ? You must be joking.

If I face you alone with my main, I'll win!
If I face you alone and you get in PA + CD, I'll win!

Why, oh why do I claim this?

Absorb what I've said, think about it then try find my main and even you will understand...


-Inwe-

So you're whining about SBs because?

 

[Summoner]

So you're whining about SBs because?

The impact on other realms amount of stealthers make a huge difference in fair fights. Fair fights, as in fg fights, that is totaly fucked up because of someones leet-toon. (And if some realms stealther is superior to its counterparts ofcourse its numbers will go up in the sky!)


-Inwe-

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

The impact on other realms amount of stealthers make a huge difference in fair fights. Fair fights, as in fg fights, that is totaly fucked up because of someones leet-toon. (And if some realms stealther is superior to its counterparts ofcourse its numbers will go up in the sky!)


-Inwe-

fg v fg fights are dead and buried

And you've got more of an issue with archers than assassins in these circumstances.

(and btw hunters - hundreds of the buggers everywhere)

 

[Summoner]

fg v fg fights are dead and buried

And you've got more of an issue with archers than assassins in these circumstances.

(and btw hunters - hundreds of the buggers everywhere)

Because of Golden Spear it doesn't matter if you're an assasin or archer, both is just as annoying. And you've NO clue about who's the biggest issue, because I frankly doubt you've ever tried playing in a real group.

For a reminder, remember the first days of NF? When a fg killed the zerg over and over and over and over and over and over again ?

Oh, allmost forgot, if you claim it's hundred of hunters out there, then I'd to say it's atleast ten times that amount, scouts out there.


-Inwe-