Livid

[Wij]

My Dad left a message on my phone sayng that a friend of his visits a medium and this time the medium said that she had a message from an Eddie who died in an accident who wanted to say that he was happy.

How fucking dare they use my brother's death as a means to drum up more business. It was hardly a secret, everyone in the village knows. Now my Dad's confused and I'd hate to think how my Mum will feel if she hears about it.

Utter fucking scum. Profiteering off the misery of others. There are laws against conning people. Why can't they be used against such parasites ?

I'd happily send them all over to the other fucking side with my bare hands.

 

[Ch3tan]

Go round and tell the medium to fuck off. Not much else you can do, talk to your dads mate and tell him it ain't helpful.

 

[Tom]

I did a shoot once filming a medium. She told the female contributor we were filming at the time that she'd be pregnant soon.

The contributor had had a hysterectomy a few years before.


Basically, if a person believes in mediums, they're a gullible fool. You should tell your dad to tell his friend to mind their own fecking business.

 

[ECA]

I thought this was going to be about porn until I realised you said livid not vivid.

Welcome to the a front seat view of the gutter of humanity.

 

[Kryten]

My dad and his girlfriend/fiance/wife are heavily into this type of thing. I generally just say "I keep an open mind" to everything said on the subject so I don't cause offence

It is indeed bollocks and it hurts to see them use names in such as way. I do have an open mind and I'm open to all sorts of ideas and theories, but in most cases this type of thing gets filed alongside "religion" as far as bollocks goes.

 

[DaGaffer]

I used to have a girlfriend who'd get really upset with me when I ranted at the telly about Derek Ackorah and other such utter wank. Its the most shameless abuse of the emotionally vulnerable there is. Makes me sick.

Wij, give your Dad the new Christopher Brookmyre book, Attack of The Unsinkable Rubber Ducks, great book that also does a nice demolition job on this kind of shit.

 

[Dukat]

I can almost understand how it might annoy some people, but most people seek out this sort of thing because they are seeking closure of some sort, my mother was one of these people and what she was told by the medium she saw really did help her.

I dont know the ins and outs of whats happened here Wij, but all I would say is that perhaps its not so much about drumming up business from it as trying to give people who believe in that sort of thing a bit of peace of mind - its not meant unkindly.

I'm not sure if I believe in it myself or not. Obviously we'll have the sceptical squad in here telling us all the tricks and buzz words they use, but I cant help wondering if theres something in what some of them do.

 

[DaGaffer]

I cant help wondering if theres something in what some of them do.

No, there isn't.

 

[Dukat]

No, there isn't.

You cant know that.

You might know of a few fakes, or maybe lots of them, you may have a good reason to suspect that all of them are fake, but you cant know for sure.

I agree that making money by abusing peoples emotions is wrong, however if someone believes in this sort of thing enough to want to see one of these people, then what harm are they doing?

In Wij's case (sorry to use you as an example here), what has the medium done wrong? Wij doesnt like hearing about this sort of thing, so he'd never go to a medium, and the sort of medium I am referring to does not go door to door, so there would not normally be a conflict, its because someone has - believing they're helping - said something to a friend.

If they phoned Wij directly without asking permission and intruded on his privacy in this matter then yes, fine, they're the lowest scum on the earth, but that isnt what they're doing. They're offering thier services to people who feel they need it.

 

[Dukat]

Look, dont get me wrong here, I'm not saying I believe in them, I'm not saying Wij is wrong to be angry/upset over this. Frankly that side of things has nothing to do with me and I dont want to sound like I'm butting in, I only posted originally because I wanted to offer an alternative point of view that might lessen the anger a little. Grief is a very personal thing and I'm a little concerned I'm coming over wrong.

I myself have become angry seeing the TV shows on this subject, because I believe those people are the ones making money off of other people's misery - they make it into a horrible spectator sport that makes me cringe whenever I see it.

That said, I'm not so quick to dismiss some of the others, and things like Tom's statement that "if a person believes in mediums, they're a gullible fool" isnt something I want to ignore. If someone doesnt believe in it fine, whatever, but insulting anyone who does believe like that is just plain wrong.

 

[Tom]

You might know of a few fakes, or maybe lots of them, you may have a good reason to suspect that all of them are fake, but you cant know for sure.

Yes you can. Force them to read somebody without asking questions, or seeing their face.

They won't be able to tell you fuck all.

Uri Geller is a classic trickster. He still manages to convince people hes somehow supernatural, but in truth hes no different than Paul Daniels.

 

[Dukat]

Yes you can. Force them to read somebody without asking questions, or seeing their face.

They won't be able to tell you fuck all.

You know this, because you've forced every medium in the entire world to read you without asking questions right?

This is what I meant, you cant test every single one, so you cant know for sure if they're all fake.

 

[ECA]

You know this, because you've forced every medium in the entire world to read you without asking questions right?

This is what I meant, you cant test every single one, so you cant know for sure if they're all fake.

You cant disprove Scientology we should accept it?

This school of logic is deeply flawed, mainly because it makes no fucking sense.

 

[Tom]

I don't have to force every medium to do this. I just have to invite any medium to do it, and pass.

Its futile to try and prove a negative. For instance, you can't tell me that every bunny rabbit in the world can't speak English, because you can't prove it.

 

[Wij]

I dont know the ins and outs of whats happened here Wij, but all I would say is that perhaps its not so much about drumming up business from it as trying to give people who believe in that sort of thing a bit of peace of mind - its not meant unkindly.

Peace of mind has nothing to do wth it. It's all about profiteering off dead people.

If Toys'R'Us started telling people that dead peoples' souls were reincarnated into Action Men and that by buying one every year to keep our loved ones' souls happy and buying some accessories too to keep them occpied we could guarantee them a nice afterlife would you consider that acceptable ?

I think you wouldn't. It's scummy fucking behaviour and it should be prosecuted.

 

[Pfy]

Unfortunately it's no use going round to beat them up as they'll know you're on your way and won't answer the door :/

 

[Damini]

Wij, I know you must be really hurt by this, and if this woman is going to carry on leeching money out of your family then I would definately get your pitchfork out, but now that money's been paid, and *if* they aren't going to keep going back, then can you not just let them hold onto that comfort blanket and bite your tongue? They wouldn't have visited a medium in the first place if they weren't desperate for some kind of reassurance, and I guess they got what they needed.

Don't confuse what I'm saying with condoning the behaviour of the so called medium - I think abusing anyone's devastation for financial gain is absolutely hateful, and they deserve everything the karma mobile can throw at them, but if your family gained even a little bit of piece of mind from this then salvage that one small positive from a big wrecking ball of negative.

Wij. I'm so sorry you've had all this dredged up again. It must feel like picking at an open wound.

 

[MYstIC G]

I hear what Lou is saying, however I disagree.

Amigo I think you're 100% correct. This will just serve to confuse your Dad and could become a brick wall between him and accepting the fact that your brother has passed away.

Think you should take your Dad down the pub mate, just you and him, see if you can't get all of this nonsense out of his head.

 

[Dukat]

Peace of mind has nothing to do wth it. It's all about profiteering off dead people.

If Toys'R'Us started telling people that dead peoples' souls were reincarnated into Action Men and that by buying one every year to keep our loved ones' souls happy and buying some accessories too to keep them occpied we could guarantee them a nice afterlife would you consider that acceptable ?

I think you wouldn't. It's scummy fucking behaviour and it should be prosecuted.

I agree that if they were doing that it would be horrible.

But is that really what mediums are doing?

They arent saying that only by going to speak to them are you going to keep thier souls happy, they're not saying you have to keep seeing them after you go to talk to them once.

From what I've seen of mediums it isnt done like that at all, you go there and speak to someone if you want to. They're not doing it like some kind of marketting scam, that you need to buy something to make the afterlife better for your loved ones, they're simply there as a means of giving some peace of mind to people who want it.

If they're doing this where you live, then sure, I can understand that you'd be angry, but from what I've seen of them they only offer a service to give some sort of comfort and/or closure to those who want it, instead of trying to market it as something everyone needs otherwise x y or z will happen.

For my mum it helped her a great deal, she doesnt go often, infact i dont think shes been more than 5 times in the last 5 years, but every time she goes she comes back looking as though she feels better for it, and imo if it helps her then its well worth far more than the admission fee that is charged.

I dont see why everyone is looking at this as if its a con, when its clearly helping some people to cope. As I said, if you dont believe in it, thats fine, but why does that make anyone who does a fool?

Its about faith, and imo this is something that is down to the individual.

 

[Mabs]

i can understand how you feel about it, and it is a bit shitty


however, on the whole truth of it thing - yes i think its bollocks, i also think religion is bollocks, and having people go to church to find spritual peace is just as laughable. but if its your thing, and as someone said, you use it as a security blanket, then who am i to argue with that.

i would leave the medium out of it, it may be distastful but you prob wont get anywhere with it, best bet is tell the mate if he wants to thats his affair but not to feel the need to share it with people .

 

[DaGaffer]

I dont see why everyone is looking at this as if its a con, when its clearly helping some people to cope. As I said, if you dont believe in it, thats fine, but why does that make anyone who does a fool?

Its about faith, and imo this is something that is down to the individual.

Do Mediums charge for their "service"? Yes they do. That should immediately raise your suspicions. The fact that "spiritualism" in the modern, seance, "knock once for yes, twice for no" sense, has only been around since the 19th century, should raise your suspicions further. Its fake. Its bullshit, and preys on the vulnerable. Think about it, when have you ever heard stories of a Medium telling one of their patrons bad news? You haven't because they want repeat business, and they're good at giving the audience what it wants. Helping people to "cope" by creating a false reality is not a good thing in the long run, especially when its parting them from their money.

 

[Guest]

i'm not a medium i am an XXL



it is all a load of balony....


fkin most haunted, load of old rubbish.

 

[Dukat]

Do Mediums charge for their "service"? Yes they do. That should immediately raise your suspicions. The fact that "spiritualism" in the modern, seance, "knock once for yes, twice for no" sense, has only been around since the 19th century, should raise your suspicions further. Its fake. Its bullshit, and preys on the vulnerable. Think about it, when have you ever heard stories of a Medium telling one of their patrons bad news? You haven't because they want repeat business, and they're good at giving the audience what it wants. Helping people to "cope" by creating a false reality is not a good thing in the long run, especially when its parting them from their money.

Doctors, dentists and councillors charge for thier service, should I be suspicious of them as well?

Your mind is well made up, thats obvious enough, but not everyone else agrees with you and I dont see why you cant accept that.

Giving someone closure is a good thing. Its up to the person to decide if they want to pay the fee for a service, and if they do so and find it helps them then thats good enough for me.

'Repeat business' I dont get. I've never heard of someone having to go to a medium regularly, I've always seen it as the sort of thing that happens once or twice, you go, it helps you, thats that. As I said my mum only ever went a couple of times, and they were years between visits. not regular at all. Perhaps we're talking about slightly different people here?

 

[Calaen]

I agree with Dukat, I think its all bollocks as well mind you, but whether or not these medium can do what they say is irrelevant, is it any different to paying for a counselor? I bet its a hell of a lot cheaper. And if anyone is able to take something away from a reading and help themselves move forwards with their life then that is not a bad thing.

People all over the world prey on people they consider vulnerable to make money it is nothing new.

Each to their own I say, everyone needs something different when dealing with grief, I find it easier to not get involved in their ways of moving on.

 

[DaGaffer]

Doctors, dentists and councillors charge for thier service, should I be suspicious of them as well?

Your mind is well made up, thats obvious enough, but not everyone else agrees with you and I dont see why you cant accept that.

Giving someone closure is a good thing. Its up to the person to decide if they want to pay the fee for a service, and if they do so and find it helps them then thats good enough for me.

'Repeat business' I dont get. I've never heard of someone having to go to a medium regularly, I've always seen it as the sort of thing that happens once or twice, you go, it helps you, thats that. As I said my mum only ever went a couple of times, and they were years between visits. not regular at all. Perhaps we're talking about slightly different people here?

'Repeat Business' isn't just the same person going back time and again (although apparently that happens a lot) but also word of mouth. You're not going to pass on the Medium's details to one of friends if she'd told you that your husband was saying from the other side, "thank God I don't have to listen to you anymore you superstitious old bat", are you?

Dealing with a medium doesn't give 'closure', quite the reverse in fact, as this very thread shows.

As for "proving" all this, well, James Randi has had a $1m prize available for any spiritualist who could prove themselves under controlled conditions for quite some time now, strangely no-one's won...

 

[Dukat]

Dealing with a medium doesn't give 'closure', quite the reverse in fact, as this very thread shows.

How does this thread show anything of the kind?

It shows that people are different and have different opinions and beliefs. It shows the reason that some people do not go to mediums, and the reason that other people do. It shows that perhaps the content of these sessions should be kept private, or atleast passed around with a little more care.

This thread doesnt show a normal visit to a medium because no one here went to the session we are talking about.

This thread doesnt illustrate a typical visit to a medium. Information was passed along to someone who didnt want to hear it, who seems to have little interest or belief in mediums anyway.

The typical visit to a medium would more likely be made by someone who either believes in mediums or is atleast curious about them on some level, and who either wants closure on something like this, or who isnt going to be hurt to hear something like Wij heard.

Yes, this thread shows how a medium's services can cause hurt if the content of the sessions are passed around to people who dont want to hear it. I cant imagine this being the typical scenario though.

Seeing a medium did give my mum closure, as I've said several times already. It helped her and it has helped other people I know. I havent been because I dont know if I want to hear what they have to say, or if I would believe it anyway.

Basically what cal said:

Each to their own I say, everyone needs something different when dealing with grief,

 

[Dukat]

You cant disprove Scientology we should accept it?

This school of logic is deeply flawed, mainly because it makes no fucking sense.

Look up the meaning of faith. Who says it has to make sense? Doesnt faith by definition defy logic?

The logic I was using was to show that no one is qualified to call all mediums fake unless they have tried them all.

You're right, you cant disprove scientology, or any other major religion for that matter, but that doesnt mean you have to accept them, just that you cant disprove them, which was my point.

 

[DaGaffer]

Look up the meaning of faith. Who says it has to make sense? Doesnt faith by definition defy logic?

The logic I was using was to show that no one is qualified to call all mediums fake unless they have tried them all.

You're right, you cant disprove scientology, or any other major religion for that matter, but that doesnt mean you have to accept them, just that you cant disprove them, which was my point.

You don't have to prove or disprove anything; you just have to look at the balance of probability; this is how science works, there are often situations where the balance of proof isn't absolute, but the weight of evidence leads one to predict an outcome with high confidence. I can predict with extremely high confidence that spiritualism is utter wank because its failed every single scientific test its been exposed to.

And if you can't work out how this thread demonstrates the damage that these people can do, I despair. Its not harmless, and it doesn't just affect the people who go to visit a medium; that should be patently obvious.

 

[Calaen]

And if you can't work out how this thread demonstrates the damage that these people can do, I despair. Its not harmless, and it doesn't just affect the people who go to visit a medium; that should be patently obvious.

However Dukat has also covered in this thread the good that they have done.

 

[Dukat]

And if you can't work out how this thread demonstrates the damage that these people can do, I despair. Its not harmless, and it doesn't just affect the people who go to visit a medium; that should be patently obvious.

Have you read a single word I've typed?

Can you not see that this thread represents the worstcase scenario? and the fact that the medium wasnt the only factor that contributed to someone being hurt? If the guy who went to see them had realised the effect this would have had he probably wouldnt have said anything, and then there would've been no harm done what-so-ever.

I can see how harm can be done if people dont think before they pass along information like this - I've also seen first hand how they do a hell of a lot of good for people who are just looking for reassurance or closure or whatever.