Linux - the way forward

[dysfunction]

What you can get at the moment (Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn)) :

YouTube - More compiz-fusion
[youtubevid]yzNjIBEdyww[/youtubevid]


A few cool things to expect from Linux in the very near future...(Linux Metisse)

Video Mandriva Linux 2007 Metisse Pager - mandriva, linux, 2007, metisse, 3D - Dailymotion Share Your Videos

Video Mandriva Linux 2007 Metisse Copy Paste - mandriva, linux, 2007, metisse, 3D - Dailymotion Share Your Videos

Video Mandriva Linux 2007 Mirror - mandriva, linux, 2007, mirror, opensource - Dailymotion Share Your Videos

 

[ST^]

'cool' but generally useless.

Tell me when it does something that'll help me work ¬_¬

 

[Yaka]

its easier to amke ti work on current build, previious version was night mare to get running my other pc

 

[Shovel]

In order of unimportance:

‘Mirror’ is, err, eye candy, implemented for no practical purpose whatsoever. I'm sure someone might find a use for that hardware capability but, err, I don't see why they've made an entire demo out of it.

The other two features are more interesting, and contrary to ST^ they definitely do offer some practical benefits (though not universally).

The Pager strikes as being pretty much like every other Virtual Desktops implementation, but has huge UI overlaps with Mac OSX 10.5 Spaces feature, namely the grid view, and interacting with windows whilst zoomed out. In some respects this is good, because Spaces is the best Virtual Desktops implementation I've ever seen. A bit rich to say that it ‘differs from any HCI you've ever seen’ in the video description, though.

The pager goes further than Spaces, and the ability to dynamically zoom windows to fit around desktop space is interesting. Would only be practical for certain types of windows, though, and buggers any concept of having spacial perspective when zooming happens independently like that.

Is this a proof of concept, or is it an attempt at building a ‘product’ that you would instruct someone to install? As a POC I can understand all these different organisational ideas going on together, but as a product that you'd expect someone to actually use, it seems like a lot of subtly different ways of doing the same thing (often, seeing more windows at a glance, rather than moving or minimising your active window).

So it's good, but the core of the feature is also in OSX, so doesn't give Linux any draw for me. The enhancements that go beyond Spaces have limited or questionable benefit. Cutting holes in windows is definitely crap, too.

I'm impressed with the copy+paste, though. Pretty neat, though the peeling window seems overkill on effects. What happens if you select text from a window that's 3 windows deeper? Will everything around it peel in different directions? I think it might be saner if the windows just slid out of the way. And for comparison, I count 3 to 4 ‘clicks’ to do the same on Mac OSX: 1. Select background window // 2. Select text // 3. Click+Drag the text back over original window (with optional 4. Cmd+Tab or Exposé to bring the original window back into focus). So it's got some small beneficial to productivity.

I'm pleased that the Linux desktop is catching up and also trying new things. A shame someone sees fit to overblow its significance, but nice work.

 

[Jonty]

Hi guys

I think Shovel hit the nail on the head: although some of the features and effects are nice, parts are just 'because we can'. Microsoft suffers from this too, and that's why MacOS is still comparatively more refined: Apple usually knows when 'less is more' (although just for the record, I don't happen to own or use any Apple products at this point in time).

Personally I don't mind who thought of what ideas first. Legal issues and fanboys aside, at the end of the day it's the end-user that benefits. And let's face it, MacOS uses Windows ideas, Windows uses MacOS ideas, and Linux is no different either.

As for the features, again like Shovel said, it's really great to see Linux progressing, but it still has a long way to go before it becomes viable in the home-consumer realm (like Murphy said, 'The easy way is always mined'). Windows still has the widest hardware and software compatibility of any operating system, and MacOS still has the nicest user experience. Although Linux's growing adoption is a plus (for example, Dell's growing support), it still has a long way to go. However, competition drives innovation, so it's all good in the end.

Kind regards

 

[Kryten]

Spot on. I've been playing with Fusion on mine, and like so many other things it's more of a "tech showcase" for what can be done. The fact that it does it all so well and smoothly is a testiment to the platform and the producer of it, and with luck the same knowledge is applied to other products in the future. I've never really gotten into linux or gotten to learn as much as I feel I want to, but it's now firmly implanted in my mind when something comes up that needs acheiving - Windows is certainly no longer the only answer or platform I need to work on to get where I want and it's also increasingly easy to persuade my bosses that for a certain type of application, Linux has huge benefits over Windows - not least the lack of annual licensing reviews and such. And having a LiveDVD that I can just slap in a computer and showcase my idea - while subtley using a couple of Fusion's "nicer" features just shows it's not as scarey as it once was, and not limited to a command line that limits development to the "company geek "

Lets hope this sort of thing keeps coming

 

[Chilly]

Waste of electricity running your GPU at a non-idling load just to pretty up the desktop.

It is damned cool, though. Its also pretty old news, all that stuff has been in the various compositing packages for a while, its just they have traditionally been a PITA to get working. It's going maintream now I spose. This will help crack the market of people who are too thick to make decisions based on tech specs and good old utility rather than "ooooh purdy".

 

[Kryten]

Chilly : that's pretty much my point. There's a LOT of people who run their businesses, and have done for years, on Windows hardware, and have been used to buying licenses and software to suit.
Then you get their tech guys like me - although using Windows ourselves, far more open to "other technologies" and other ways of doing something - in my eyes something as widely supported as much open source software is a great way forward for lots of solutions - but it's so damned hard to get a non-techy to understand why.
"But if everyone has the ability to edit these programs to how they see fit, isn't it dangerous?" being a common one.

Having something as "pretty" as this and a simple-as-linux-gets interface offered by Ubuntu (as an example) often makes things a little bit easier for these folk to understand.

 

[soze]

A large company will not drop Windows for linux any time soon. Mainly because the support and programmes for Windows is un mattched. The reason my boss would never go with linux is if the guy who knows he tricks is on Holiday you cant just ask an other techie like now and you also do not have Microsoft there backing you up.

Add to that programmes you think its hard going to Vista try speak to people about linux versions of the software

 

[Alliandre]

I've found the support for Linux to be extremely good since I started using Linux. I've been using Ubuntu, and I've found that any question I've asked on the Ubuntu forums has generally been answered within minutes.

I've also had no problems finding applications for things I used to do before. Where I just wanted to (or had to) use Windows only programs, I've used Wine, which although sometimes a little tricky, can get the job done. Just to show the range of programs, there's a list here made specifically for people switching over from Windows.

It may still be harder to use (setting up media support for some things in Ubuntu can be a pain), but pretty much everything's free. It also shares the lovely not having to scan for virus' feature that Mac's now have.

And back on the topic, that stuff may be pretty, but it doesn't seem to work to well on my PC. I'll have to see if it works better in the next Ubuntu release for me. It's not exactly something that I'll miss if it never works on my PC.

 

[soze]

You cant rely on a forum for business critical solutions in a company with a 1000 users and you can't just find a bit of free ware to do the same job you would have to redo traing policy documents ect.

I play with Linux on my PS3 and i have never been tempted to drop windows for it. Its ok but i can't see why you would drop windows unless its a money thing

 

[Kryten]

For the customer/normal user end of a business, Windows is not likely to dissapear any time soon, thats a given.
However for the parts of the business running behind the scenes, Linux is a big, big player and has more say in any of it than Windows - or more so than any of us are likely to admit quickly.
Although the front end of much of what we use is Windows based, the workings are all more than likely running Linux powered.

In my case, I've been trying to get some of the "inner workings" transferred over to Linux systems - becuase the support for those particular parts are far better supported than hte Windows counterparts. (database innards for example)

Sorry for quality of the english and spelling in this post - bit pissed :|

 

[yaruar]

people should drop their prejudices and use the best tool for the job they have. Windows has its place, linux has it's place, Solaris has its place even VMS has its place. Although we should all go back to using netware on file servers and anyone using a Mac is gay.

 

[GReaper]

You cant rely on a forum for business critical solutions in a company with a 1000 users and you can't just find a bit of free ware to do the same job you would have to redo traing policy documents ect.

No, you rely on the IT staff who have knowledge of the systems which they have a level of expertise in. You can't rely on a forum for any network with 1,000 users.

 

[TdC]

people should drop their prejudices and use the best tool for the job they have. Windows has its place, linux has it's place, Solaris has its place even VMS has its place. Although we should all go back to using netware on file servers and anyone using a Mac is gay.

the man is wise; heed his words!

 

[soze]

No, you rely on the IT staff who have knowledge of the systems which they have a level of expertise in. You can't rely on a forum for any network with 1,000 users.

That was my point with Microsoft you also have a huge amount of support with Technet ect and then the phone numbers which get you though to a team of experts. Untill a Linux company can offer than large business would not make the choice to switch over.

And if a Linux company employed support staff they would have to charge.

 

[GReaper]

Funnily enough you can pay certain companies for support if you really feel you need it. They do actually provide support for many large businesses already, you just probably don't realise it.

Smaller companies can still rely on their own IT staff without the need for expensive support contracts.

 

[soze]

Funnily enough you can pay certain companies for support if you really feel you need it. They do actually provide support for many large businesses already, you just probably don't realise it.

Smaller companies can still rely on their own IT staff without the need for expensive support contracts.

Maybe if every IT department in the world had staff who tried Linux during there own time or let them run up test servers for fun. My company has 10 technicians 1 or 2 of wich loves Linux but everyone knows at least basics on Windows. So if we impliment a Linux system and they went away either we would need to retrain people to cover Linux. Or get a support contract. Windows has free support and you do not need a support contract with Microsoft you can pay per incident.

I have nothing agaist Linux if i was told to learn it i would but it dose not have anything that would make me delete windows on my home machine to try it. So for my company like many other changing to linux would mean a support contract and retraining staff. Theres no point. Maybe a new Company could set up on Linux and get staff accordingly but i cant see many companies changing to it.

 

[GReaper]

You've dismissed it on cost and inconvenience without knowing anything about it and without considering any benefits, so it's obviously not for you.

 

[Kryten]

Not a great deal of point in arguing about costs of support - they've all got pros and cons for performance, ideal usage, level of support.
A lot of companies hire people specifically for knowledge with Unix and derived systems, as they do for Windows and it's various technologies.