Lewis Hamilpwned

[ECA]

Is the FIA are bunch of racist fucks?
Are Hamilton and Mclaren dirtier than tdc at an all you can swaffle buffet?
Does Ferrari have so much influence at the FIA?


What the fizzuck.

 

[rynnor]

Its pretty clear that the FIA hate him - race may be an issue - not sure.

Personally I dont particularly like him - I thought it was naff when he buggered off to a tax haven and blamed the UK media when he constantly seeks publicity

 

[MYstIC G]

Does anyone actually know without hearing everything that was said...

 

[Chilly]

what you lot on about? links and pics and vids!

 

[Ch3tan]

It seems the stewards were too busy to hear mclaren out on the point during the race. But yes, like meg says, we do not really know what happened.

 

[Chilly]

what you lot on about? links and pics and vids!

qqq

 

[Rubber Bullets]

BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | Hamilton loses Aussie GP points

If Hamilton deliberately set out to mislead the stewards and get Trulli a penalty then he deserves sanctions.

If McLaren deliberately set out to mislead the stewards and get Trulli a penalty then they deserve sanctions.

If neither of the above then they shouldn't have done anything.

Either way the FIA seem to be following on from last year in trying to find new and inventive ways to make themselves look very stupid indeed. It is surely reasonable that we know the winner and positions of each race as the cars cross the line, and not have to wait days or weeks until the stewards decide what the positions really are based on the FIA bias of the moment.

RB

 

[Wij]

Perhaps they should just implement a -5 points per race for darkies rule. Much simpler to understand.

 

[rynnor]

Perhaps they should just implement a -5 points per race for darkies rule. Much simpler to understand.

Oh and +10 points if you dress up as a Nazi

 

[Kryten]

I no longer care for F1. Prefer watching races on the track and not battles in the courtroom, and this is the straw that broke the camels back. Noone will care but I did :/

 

[Ch3tan]

Kryten, I have read a few stories around it now, and it appears that Mcclaren are to blame here. Think this quote from Brundle sums it up best:

BBC commentator and former F1 driver Martin Brundle"This does not look good for Hamilton or McLaren.

"Hamilton passed Trulli as he was off the road. Hamilton clearly wondered then, to give him the benefit of the doubt, if he had passed under the safety car conditions and was trying to let Trulli back through.
"There was a point when he was doing just 15mph in his McLaren and Trulli had no option but to repass him.
"I think Lewis then saw half a chance of a third place instead of a fourth, went up to the stewards and didn't give them the full story.
"Now they've matched up his comments (to them) to radio content between him and the team, and other information they've gathered, and they've decided that effectively he was telling fibs.
"I think it's a big issue and it's not going to go away. If they were asked a direct question they should have given the right answer, and they clearly didn't."

 

[Krazeh]

Noone has seen the transcripts from the original hearing and it appears the FIA aren't particularly interested in releasing them. This means the only thing we have to go on is the statement made by the FIA which claims that certain questions were put to Hamilton and Mclaren and that the answers they gave differed from the evidence provided by the radio transmissions and media interview.

Unless and until the transcripts of the original hearing are released we're really unable to conclude whether or not the right answers were given in response to direct questions.

 

[Kryten]

There's plenty of transcripts around for after which I've listened to, and there's no conclusive evidence to any of it. Absolutely regardless, short of lewis and whitemarsh personally radioing race control and calling the FIA a bunch of ecclestone-fucking windowlickers there is absolutely no reason for this penalty as it stands.

It's clearly just a continuation of the "musn't let hamilton/mclaren succeed" vibe thats been going for 2 previous years.
As for whats said to stewards minutes after a race : like fuck would anyone, hamilton included have been able to say anything with full coherence or meaning after pulling up to 5Gs wrestling a car doing 18000rpm and 200mph for 70 odd laps in a highly tuned machine like that.

At the absolute worst, Trulli should have been reinstated to 3rd, Hamilton back to 4th, for "human error".

 

[ECA]

It's really annoying.

Let's take football for example - when a penalty is awarded does anyone expect the recipients player to speak up and say "no it wasnt a penalty".

The FIA has all the tapes and the timing of race decisions...why not just watch the video, and make the correct decision instead of this "we dont want another schumacher so lets try and punish him at every opportunity" bullshit.

 

[Zenith.UK]

In F1, I expect the cars that come in 1st 2nd and 3rd to get the points.
In football I expect the ball to go over the goal-line to score.
In rugby I expect the ball to be grounded to score a try.

It's pretty clear cut what constitutes a goal, score, point or whatever. People going "Wah wah wah" afterwards are not only bad sports but bring their sports into disrepute. I still like Lewis Hamilton as a driver, but right now I find Jensen Button to have more "character" about him. I suppose it's because he said he watches porn when his girlfriend isn't home.

 

[Tom]

As for whats said to stewards minutes after a race : like fuck would anyone, hamilton included have been able to say anything with full coherence or meaning after pulling up to 5Gs wrestling a car doing 18000rpm and 200mph for 70 odd laps in a highly tuned machine like that.

You're wrong there. Mansell had that problem, but most modern F1 drivers are very fine athletes indeed.

 

[Kryten]

Yes, they are. Point being, however, they're far more concerned with the racing aspect of the sport rather than that might be going on a bit later on. People aren't cruising round the last few laps thinking about who they're gonna shag later (Jenson) or wondering what bar to drown their sorrows in (Mass... oh, he did have time for that in the end!) but still. If anyone thinks McLaren are likely to lie on purpose to anyone to bump up a position, they've got to be very wrong indeed. The only thing McLaren are likely to be guilty of is being so worried about what the FIA will do they're trying to appease them in every way possible by conceding places they probably didn't have to.

 

[soze]

Sniff Petrol

 

[kirennia]

People still keep going on about the stewards being biased...

autosport.com - F1 News: Q & A with Lewis Hamilton

Maybe that'll clear it up; they lied, Hamilton and their sporting director to try and get Trulli disqualified and all for one place, one point. Fair play to him for coming clean but to be honest, only coming clean after already being found out isn't the same. He should have realised his mistake and said it before it was actually found out, I mean he had 2/3 days to do so; why on earth he'd hold back information against his cheating... well tbh, this happened back when Alonso was with McLaren too with them stealing other team information.

And then people wonder why Hamilton isn't all that popular.

 

[ECA]

People still keep going on about the stewards being biased...

autosport.com - F1 News: Q & A with Lewis Hamilton

Maybe that'll clear it up; they lied, Hamilton and their sporting director to try and get Trulli disqualified and all for one place, one point. Fair play to him for coming clean but to be honest, only coming clean after already being found out isn't the same. He should have realised his mistake and said it before it was actually found out, I mean he had 2/3 days to do so; why on earth he'd hold back information against his cheating... well tbh, this happened back when Alonso was with McLaren too with them stealing other team information.

And then people wonder why Hamilton isn't all that popular.

Why dont the FIA just watch the tapes instead of asking the teams?
They could have easily made their decision that way and just left trulli in 3rd.
If the initial inquiry had left trulli 3rd none of this shit would have happened.

Because the FIA rushed to take a decision we now have this shitstorm.

The FIA is scared shitless of another schumacher dominating the sport and no doubt hamilton placing 3rd/4th and destroying everyone in the 1st race of the season is making them nervous because F1 is actually popular again.

 

[Macey]

Hamilton and McLaren do have a nasty habit of making life worse for themselves though. Every time they go out to get as much as they possibly can from every event and 9 times out of 10 it seems to back-fire and cause them a lot more problems.

Personally, Ive always preferred Button as a character, hes much less arrogant and much more interesting. Hamilton is by far the better driver though, the guy is just amazing. Watching him at Silverstone in the wet last year was like watching Schumacher again, very impressive stuff.

 

[Kryten]

It's all pure bollocks tbh. Pointless trying to follow it because it's clear noone will get the full truth out of any of them in F1 until the morons running it disband.

 

[Ch3tan]

I'm sorry Kryt, but you seem to be right up Mclarens arse on this. I have read a lot of articles and points of view on it. And while the majority agree that the FIA should have acted sooner, they all also agree that Hamilton did not give the correct info to them when asked. The radio logs clearly do not match what he told the stewards. It was Trulli who complained, the FIA did not make this a witch hunt against hamilton. I think we have a lot of anti FIA sentiment in this country, and a lot of it is pure bollocks. I also think, in this case hamilton showed a lot of immaturity by clearly lieing in the first place. He is a great driver, but had he told the truth in the first place he would still have fourth place.

 

[Kryten]

Pedantically, he didn't actually lie, he allegedly "withheld information" - information that isn't public to you, me, any media or anyone else outside of FIA's imaginary circle of friends. Whatever was said it's resulting in someones dismissal/suspension from McLaren, which leads me to believe McLaren are the ones indeed trying to bend rules again, something they clearly should know better than. Regardless of what's being reported in the media, 90% of it is misunderstanding/miscommunication, the rest is people trying to make it better for themselves and failing to do so.
It's also worth noting that this is a *very very very minor* issue. A problem which reportedly happens with just about half of the grid per season, yet because it's McLaren and Hamilton, for whatever reason the FIA are making an example out of it. An issue that normally sees teams get a slap on the wrist and that's it, certainly no punishments of this magnitude nor certainly the media attention.

But, my point isn't giving a too much of a shit about what has or hasn't been said, because as pointed out above, it's purely speculation from both our and the media's POV for the most part. What annoys me, is the twattishness the FIA display in dealing with this matter and that they continue to let race results be altered whenever or however they feel like it.
If anyone should be punished, it's McLaren and McLaren alone. Simple as. Hamilton certainly didn't deserve it, having pulled one of the best drives of the day out of the bag, then following orders. What more could he really do. I whole heartedly agree that telling the truth and acting truthfully in the first place should be the precedent set and McLaren were certainly morons for ignoring that. I'm not up their arse certainly, I'm also following all the media (it's amazing how much of it differs in small yet quite important details) and everyone appears to be drawing their own conclusions.

Too much PR, too much media speculation, too much politics and not enough racing. There lies the problem, and the cause of which is the FIA's inconsistency.

 

[tierk]

The FIA are in a lose lose situation here. If they didnt act, everyone says that they are biased, if they acted they still get called out for it, like a lot of people here, for being anti Mclaren, racist against black people, Ferrari lovers.

Now they have seen everything and given the correct decision - that yet again Mclaren are cheating and the FIA still come out as the bad guys as they are called out for not acting fast enough etc.

They do a fine job in difficult circumstances.

They should disband Mclaren as they are quite clearly one of the biggest cheaters out there and RON DENNIS should be barred from racing anything bigger then tri-cycles, though i am sure he will find a way to cheat at that as well. Either he is completely incompetent - he never seems to know that there was any cheating going on in his team and that the cheaters were acting on there own - or alternatively he is biggest liar on this planet, knows exactly what is going on but doesnt give a toss so long as his team wins.

 

[Kryten]

Tierk : thanks for the post however it might be worth looking into it a little before making statements like that For a start Ron Dennis has little/nothing to do with it any more.

 

[Embattle]

He claims Dave Ryan, McLaren's sporting director, had instructed him to "withhold information".

You can get as fancy as you like but looking at the various quotes they didn't tell the stewards everything and that is both Lewis Hamilton and Dave Ryan, in essence they witheld information and in my book that is as good as lying.

I've no doubt this isn't a McLaren only thing but the FIA are now cracking down harder than ever and more often on such events and thus trying to claim things such as racism is just utter bollocks.

@tierk - Just to point out Ron Dennis doesn't run the team any more.

 

[tierk]

Tierk : thanks for the post however it might be worth looking into it a little before making statements like that For a start Ron Dennis has little/nothing to do with it any more.

He is still at the team - yes in a reduced capacity - and he still holds a large amount of stock in the team so no he is not having little or nothing to do with it.

The facts still remain that him and the entire team he has built up have cheated, cheat and will continue to cheat if they think they can get away with it.

They have managed to bring the entire sport down in one way or another. First the Ferrari problems, where everyone was making comments that the FIA love only Ferrari.

They eventually got found guilty and it has to be said Ron Dennis didnt come out as clean as he likes to make out.....

Dennis says that he was vindicated personally; indeed, he claims to have been so keen to cooperate with the investigation and protect his own and McLaren's fundamental reputation for integrity, that he personally informed the FIA of new evidence which was ultimately used to convict the team. However, FIA President Max Mosley who Dennis telephoned about the issue, has said that Dennis contacted him only to deny that any further evidence existed against his team. Although Mosley says that he accepted Dennis's word at the time, the subsequent receipt of information that had been uncovered by the Italian police prompted the FIA to bring the team before the World Motorsport Council once again.

This created a situation where a lot of people thought that the FIA are biased and now once again making things bad for the sport by once again cheating, lying and quite frankly acting in a way that can only be construed, at a minimum, as unsportsman like and they can certainly be accused of once again bringing the sport into disrepute.

Oh and BTW yes i have an axe to grind about Ron Dennis.

@tierk - Just to point out Ron Dennis doesn't run the team any more.

Hang Him Anyway!!!

 

[Kryten]

nngh @ bold. DAOC player?

Perhaps I should try and put a point across in a different way.

Noone gives 2 anti-gravity fucks on Mars about the FIA. The FIA is very well known for being full of shit. Everyone knows it.

Noone gives 2 brass monkeys about the politics. It's dull, boring and isn't the reason 99.9% of fans turn on their telly or drag themselves out to a circuit to watch the race.

BUT, because of both of the above, the politics is unavoidable, however you choose to enjoy it. The only way around that is to avoid watching or reading about it, and looking at the championship table after the last race. Well after the last race, just in case someone decides Ferrari didn't do well enough.

And if anyone thinks McLaren are bad: open your eyes a little. Take a look at every single other team on that grid. Not one of them is squeaky clean. And how can they be, when half the rules they have to follow are as clean as mud? People seem to forget about the amount of cheating Ferrari did right in front of our eyes. On radio. But that was forgotten by the next race because Michael Schumacher was going to win. Now lets have a look back. Honda. BAR. Tyrell/Prost. Williams. Renault/Bennetton. Jordan. Toyot... fuck it, there's not a single team I can't think of that hasn't pulled some really stupid stunts in the past. Some got away with it, some didn't. Some of the best drivers in the world have pulled some of the dirtiest tricks around. Not just drivers either, the same goes for many sportsmen. People will rant and rave about the likes of Schumacher, Senna, Muhammed Ali etc, but never about what absolute fucking morons they were and the stunts they pulled to get the status they did.

So in essence : yeah, you're probably right. McLaren probably did cheat. There's no point saying "they did" because you don't know. Noone but they do, simple as.

And the moral of it all?

Noone gives a flying fuck. We should be able to sit and enjoy a race where the results are decided on track. Otherwise, get brundle, jordan and that other unknown guy out of the BBC and replace them with Jeremy Paxman and Trevor McDonald.

 

[Rubber Bullets]

McLaren were fucking stupid, Hamilton was fucking stupid too, I don't see how this can be argued with, but...

Hamilton overtook Trulli under a yellow flag, he had every right as Trulli was off the track at the time, but the team got extremely twitched about it despite repeated assertions from Hamilton that he had every right to do so.

Why were they so twitched? Because the FIA stewards have a recent history of fucking around and making totally inexplicable decisions, often at McLarens expense. It was a huge mistake by the team, but perhaps not totally surprising. What they, and Hamilton, did after this was monumentally stupid, but probably would never have happened if the stewards had a better reputation for fair, prompt and professional decisions.

RB