let's get back to a true test of skill..

[Lejemorder]

But you have to select a lot faster because 8 sec on debuff isnt long...

8 sec is very long just ask ns/sbs there got stunned for 9 sec

 

[Vindicator]

8 sec is very long just ask ns/sbs there got stunned for 9 sec

Actually the Debuff will last about 4 secs with good resist's. As for 9s stun, its more like 7.5 and with BB resist's even less .

Either way, Removing Assist would get rid of some of the /assist monkeys but it would hurt the casual gamer more I think since The best offensive tanks would still select the same targets just as fast. When I play with some friends in my guild we usually target the same people anyway, Raping those bards eh nighty :x ?.

 

[Ormorof]

always has?

clicking buttons requires skill?

 

[Jpeg[LOD]]

remove /assist from game and use your eyes to pick targets.

assist trains ruining game now.

(and yes i play hib and i know hibs do it to nuke.. but u cant interupt tanks can you? not properly...)

get back to old school ways imo.. /assist is the tool of the idiot and unskilled.

IMHO there is NO such thing as skill in DAOC it is 100% knowledge of your class... your owns realms classes and the enemy classes.

no skill in hitting the buttons..... its knowing when to hit the buttons that needs knowledge .

its just a case of knowing your job in a grp . knwoing who/what to hit and when .. no skill involved

 

[Ormorof]

hell a 10 year old can play daoc effectively

 

[Zebolt]

The best offensive tanks would still select the same targets just as fast. When I play with some friends in my guild we usually target the same people anyway

What makes everyone think casters have more trouble with that? Are casters only played by n00bs or what?

 

[Morchaoron]

hell a 10 year old can play daoc effectively

actually my 10 year old brother (was 9 when he started playing) played a paladin on my buffbot account and he was better then the average player, all i did was explaining him in 5 minutes how to twist/assist and why you do it, never did anyone say anything about his playstyle, and they didnt even whine about his crappy english

 

[Ctuchik]

clicking buttons requires skill?

no, but knowing who, when and how to best kill someone does..

 

[Ctuchik]

IMHO there is NO such thing as skill in DAOC it is 100% knowledge of your class... your owns realms classes and the enemy classes.

no skill in hitting the buttons..... its knowing when to hit the buttons that needs knowledge .

its just a case of knowing your job in a grp . knwoing who/what to hit and when .. no skill involved

really? then what would u call that if not skill then? it IS a form of skill. just not the kind u need in real life.. especially this part

its just a case of knowing your job in a grp . knwoing who/what to hit and when ..

coz u need skill to know HOW to play ur class RIGHT, removing assist trains would probably empty the rvr zones of 80% of the active "leet rvr guilds" as they have no clue how to play without assist....

 

[Jpeg[LOD]]

really? then what would u call that if not skill then? it IS a form of skill. just not the kind u need in real life.. especially this part



coz u need skill to know HOW to play ur class RIGHT, removing assist trains would probably empty the rvr zones of 80% of the active "leet rvr guilds" as they have no clue how to play without assist....

knowledge isnt skill lol ........ do you REALLY think pressing the buttons at a certain time is SKILL? lol get real . its knowledge and knowledge is power. which is why u get beaten by those groups who pwn servers cos they are a buncg of people who have the KNOWLEDGE of others in there grp.. there playstyles and there job within the grp and when to do it.


if knowledge was SKILL . then im leet @ skills then cos i always press the "train button" at right time . i also press the view journal button at the right time........ doesnt mean i have skills.. just means i know what to press and when = knowledge. shitty point but im sure you know how i mean


but removing assist wont change the outcome on rvr apart from people who dont know much about the game. cos the high rr gps know enough about the enemy on who to hit and who not to hit ..... lower rr grps or "newbs" as some people like to call them (not me) , will be fucked without assist cos if a alb grp mezza fg mids the lower (less knowledgeable albs grp) will run around like headless chickens breakingmezz's left right n centre.... but i suposse it would be good in the long run cos people will learn by there mistakes who to twat and who not to twat when enemy grp is mezz'd etc.

but IMO its stilll skilless to play and its 95% knowledge and 5% reflex's to press the buttons

 

[Ctuchik]

Pffft, bleh. i hate when ppl sinks a perfectly good statement like that... i stand corrected now that i think about it...

 

[Balbor]

remove assisting on player targets (ie so you can still do it in PvE), or give a penilty to those that use it: half AF & resists and prevent evading/ blocking/perrying (against players other than the one your assisting against) while using MA to represent the fact you are ignoring everyone else and they can therefor attack you more effectifly.

 

[Shike]

remove pbae box then aswell, not that i couldnt live without assist macro... its silly shouldnt be ingame, but boxing up and spamming pbae is not that either.

humm...

And what EXACTLY do you expect most mages to do when he has 2 tanks or more on him trying their best to bash the shit outta u?

DD them both to death? hmm

AoEDD!!! them both to death? hmm

Debuff em so they get scared and run away?? hmm

Bash em with the staff?! hmm

Run and get PFd, snared, slammed, wepstylestunned, etc.. ? hmm

Dorin my friend, what you kinda forget is how easy it actually is to suppress mages with a sorc/healer/shaman/skald/mincer/thane etc, what you also forget is how easy it actually is to kite PBAoE, heck I even do it with my chanter when i see kobbiebombs with moc rushing thru their ickle bodies.

PBAoE for my group is used as a last defense mostly (thats the idea anyway and it doesnt work vs more than a FG really), debuffed DD's is the casters mainweapon and if you remove assist, killing sure will be harder for us too but I think a tight group where assisters know how the MA plays, it wont be a problem. It shouldnt really be a problem for tanks either.

 

[Shike]

i agree stupid box system is far more easier to play then assist trains..
the leader needs to pick targets...
box system is only "Oh nice inc lets stay all at 1 point and spam pbae, spread heal, grabble, bodyguard -> oh we have won ? i dont even targeted one enemy"

and if you really think its _that_ easy then you really should play caster some more. Incase you havent noticed, one or two tanks are mostly already dead when you guys approach a good magegroup. Yeah, that was pbae doing it on 1000 range....

 

[Dook]

PBAoE boxes are usually reserved for noobs or zergs.

If you fall into one of those categories then you either a. (in the case of noobs) need to learn a thing or two or b. deserve to be obliterated by teh box you zerging scum. :>

Removing PBAoE box 'coz silly /assist noobs can't function without it is silly. :>

 

[Saggy]

IMHO there is NO such thing as skill in DAOC it is 100% knowledge of your class... your owns realms classes and the enemy classes.

no skill in hitting the buttons..... its knowing when to hit the buttons that needs knowledge .

its just a case of knowing your job in a grp . knwoing who/what to hit and when .. no skill involved

Hitting right buttons at the right time and 0.5secs before the enemy time after time isn't skill? Sure, running 100m doesn't require skill, its just knowledge of when to use your left and right legs but if you can do it faster than avarage runner you are skilled, no? Or making a Nuclear Bomb requires no skill, just knowledge of how to make it? Basically everything what you can do better/worse than someone else requires skill, imo. I've seen many better Daoc-players than me -> they are more skilled than me.

if knowledge was SKILL . then im leet @ skills then cos i always press the "train button" at right time . i also press the view journal button at the right time........ doesnt mean i have skills.. just means i know what to press and when = knowledge. shitty point but im sure you know how i mean

Yes, you are more skilled at pressing "train button" than someone who fails to press it at all. What about those who write with keyboard for their living? Those who can write stuff without typos 100 times faster than avarage writer? Are they skilled at all? All they do, after all, is pressing right buttons at the right time.

Removing PBAoE box 'coz silly /assist noobs can't function without it is silly. :>

Well, thread-starter's point was that /assisting requires no skill and manually targetting does require skill. PBing, however, doesn't require either of them so something has to be done to make it require some skill (<- that's not my opinion ). Usually tank can only hit one target at the time. Most tanks (=all but Savages ) cant' make enough damage alone to take down enemies -> they have to hit the same target. I can imagine Firbolg Druid and 4 Luris bombing inside of it, good luck on targetting the same Luri without /assist <o/ And I thought BG/Grapple would be overpowered.

 

[Dorin]

humm...

And what EXACTLY do you expect most mages to do when he has 2 tanks or more on him trying their best to bash the shit outta u?

DD them both to death? hmm

AoEDD!!! them both to death? hmm

Debuff em so they get scared and run away?? hmm

Bash em with the staff?! hmm

Run and get PFd, snared, slammed, wepstylestunned, etc.. ? hmm

Dorin my friend, what you kinda forget is how easy it actually is to suppress mages with a sorc/healer/shaman/skald/mincer/thane etc, what you also forget is how easy it actually is to kite PBAoE, heck I even do it with my chanter when i see kobbiebombs with moc rushing thru their ickle bodies.

PBAoE for my group is used as a last defense mostly (thats the idea anyway and it doesnt work vs more than a FG really), debuffed DD's is the casters mainweapon and if you remove assist, killing sure will be harder for us too but I think a tight group where assisters know how the MA plays, it wont be a problem. It shouldnt really be a problem for tanks either.

yea thats why you got staffs ffs!
anyways i dont expect anything else, but boxing up and spaming pbae with bodyguard+grapple protect is not a l33t tactic and not something harder then spamming assist+anytime. mmm what was this topic about anyways i forgot xd not to mention chanters nuking out for 500+ dmg from box ty for debuff, i dont like that either (tho its fun if you are in the hib grp xD)!
reread topic, removing assist wouldnt hurt teh average tank, stick to ma or teh use of eyez helps a lot (if not encountering a box its easier, as assist macro is kinda delayed with high ping, like 4-5 sec delay on it, which sux )

 

[Ssera]

in a box are usually vulnerable to ranged attacks -> rofl show me one alb group that runs with mages (i really wonder why i seee sooooo many albion pbae groups -> our casters owns)

What does that have to do with the people in the box being vulnerable to ranged attacks?

learn about the other classes in your realm and realise there's more than just tanks and support classes in the game -> aha you opened my eyes that must the reason for 3 healer 3 savage groups

My rm can one shot most casters with a bolt. My bolts have a greater range than any pbae I know of.

nothing beats a hib group with 2 bg, bladeturn and chanters nuking in 0.2 s while somone is using grabble

Granted bg is very tough but can be worked around and that leads on to the next point:

Stay away from the box -> so chanters can debuff their own nukes to assist kill our alb support

with bg on you, you can't move - so how are you going to debuff nuke the enemy group who have stepped out of range and while their casters/archers are slowly picking you apart?

Bring on New Frontiers -> when albion will finally loose their RA advantage so they can die faster to pbae groups

If you're dumb enough to run at a pbae group that is blocking a bottleneck, no amount of RAs will save you.

anymore nice ideas?

Try playing this game for fun and testing out new tactics. Sure you'll get beaten down quite a few times but that just makes the times when you win that much better

 

[Bracken]

the "box system" as you put it is actually an age long military tactic used when defending against overwhelming enemies. More commonly called the "square" you basically have 4 lines of pike/riflemen (depending on which era you're in ofc ) that form the 4 sides of a square. Cannons (if available) go at the corners and any officers, support elements etc go in the middle.

And then the cannons spam pbaoe4tehwin?

 

[Ormorof]

actually my 10 year old brother (was 9 when he started playing) played a paladin on my buffbot account and he was better then the average player, all i did was explaining him in 5 minutes how to twist/assist and why you do it, never did anyone say anything about his playstyle, and they didnt even whine about his crappy english

well my 10 year old brother plays warrior and nobody seems to notice

oh and ive said it before and ill say it again, to beat pbaoe, BRING THANES!!!!

 

[Ssera]

And then the cannons spam pbaoe4tehwin?

would be nice, grapeshot 4tehwin

 

[Iceflower]

>the "box system" as you put it is actually an age long military tactic used when defending against overwhelming enemies. ...square....

I would love to see the books you have read that supports this statement

 

[Balbor]

>the "box system" as you put it is actually an age long military tactic used when defending against overwhelming enemies. ...square....

I would love to see the books you have read that supports this statement

The Box System, or Square works best against cavalry (bu not mounted archers) as used in the battle of waterloo (after Napolian fell ill and went for a sit down his someone desided to send in hthe french cavarlry & Lancers so the british formed square and despide being pounded by cannon they held there formation). But being in a box formation isn't so good if you get yourselve surounded, infact a smaller number of attackers can kill a larger army that it has boxed in becuase they will have more people in melee than the boxed in defenders (Hannibal vs the Romans i think).

 

[Ssera]

Sorry, there's no one book I've read that explains the square, it's just what I've picked up from studying battles and wars for the last ten or so years. I believe the square was first devised by the Swiss during the 13th century as a respone to cavalry charges (which almost everyone (especially the french)loved using in that period) using tight ranks of pikemen 2, 4 or 8 deep.

Jumping through time this gradually evolved and pikes were slowly replaced with muskets and bayonets, but cavalry was still used. Many different approaches to the square have been used in the past, hollow squares with each line being 3 ranks deep, 6 ranks deep, in an oblong or hollow oblong formation, solid square and even 6 deep double ranked lines (technically not a square though). The Egyptians used them extensively against the Mamelukes in the 1790s and had light gun emplacements on the corners.

The french army used squares over and over again during the napoleonic wars: Shevardino in 1812, Bautzen, Kulm and Lutzan in 1813 and of course Waterloo in 1815. They could even move around the battlefield but progress was very slow and the formation was hard to control. At Lutzen they had 6 infantry brigades all advancing on the enemy in squares at the same time.

Like I said though, squares are extremely vulnerable to ranged attacks, and artillery would eat up a square if it wasn't adequatly protected by friendly artillery set up nearby and/or cavalry. Stories of squares being broken are quite rare and the cases when it did happen are usually due to a combination of events - heavy rain dramatically reducing the effectiveness of the muskets within the square and a lack of friendly artillery cover to protect the square in its weakened state. The battles of Dresden and Katzback illustrate this (I'll let you read up on them if you're interesteed - they both happened on the same day but had quite different outcomes).

I'll also add that it does work somewhat against infantry too though casualties will be higher than against cavalry. The Foreign Legion used it a lot during the 1860s when they were fighting in Mexico and in North Africa. Camerone is a good example where a force of 65 legionaires beat off an attack from around 2000 men and 800 cavalry. The rest of that battle has gone down in Legion history. Even today the British army uses it (well a triangle in this case) when setting up a position for the night with light support weapons facing out from the corners of the triangle and officers in the middle.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my statement. This tactic won't win you a battle against overwhelming odds, but it'll greatly increase your chances of survival.

Moving back to DAoC though, the box pbae'rs use works on exactly the same principle really (closed square) just with the difference that each "rifleman" (ie pbae'er) can hit in every direction at once which negates the need to form men up in lines each facing a particular direction and divides the number of people you need to make one by 4. Oh and I don't think the french had speed 5, mez, stun, dots and trolls bodyguarding them either or Waterloo would have been one hell of a fight

 

[Ssera]

infact a smaller number of attackers can kill a larger army that it has boxed in becuase they will have more people in melee than the boxed in defenders (Hannibal vs the Romans i think).

well the romans didn't really form a square there, they got surrounded by hannibal and then slowly crushed to death. Forming a square requires each line to hold it's position and if one line caves in then the square is broken and everyone dies.

Having a grater number of people in melee isn't necessarily true of the attacking force. The swiss only had pikemen 2 or 4 deep (8 occasionally but that's actually a double line) so almost all of them could fend off cavalry charges. In a situation where a box is completely surounded, the people in the box usually surrender (the romans were never given that chance) .