Legal vs Ethical

[mercury]

I think I've been stuffed by a out-and-out scoundrel. See what you think.
I have a Lvl50 RR3L2 ML0 toon, (no 2nd account and so no bb) I thought I'd advance a bit while Prydwen was off-line.
Me and a mate went to do Peridas - did it, and moved on to Night Terror Island to do GoLM. There was no-one there. Stayed a coupla nights and my groupy left. I stayed for a few more nights, never leaving and not going afk. The game day before he popped up comes this anon character Furyy, says nothing and starts killing harpies. When NT eventually popped he runs in, it hits him and I start to kill. When dead I get 2 GoT and he gets the arti which he runs off with and eventually activates.
Wot you playing at, sez I. Not your mob he says - you can't camp an unspawned mob - read RoC and CoC. Anyway I camped this for 5hrs earlier today and an animist stole it off me. So this one's mine. (Bit of a contradiction there?). He wouldn't give it back or even admit to doing anything in the least bit iffy.
I contacted Celtic Leaf Army GM (and so did my groupy) and after a long debate, got nowhere. All he would do was to warn him about respecting other people.
This is how I suggest it should be done. As I left NT Island I passed Peridas, went in and killed him again. A guy who I hadnt seen pops up and tells me he's been camping it for 3 hours. Although he also hit he mob and actually got the belt, even if he hadn't, I was quite prepared to give it to him and all the other things Peridas drops. I wouldn't have HAD to, but I think it would have been proper to do that. Furyy would disagree, and so I feel would his GM.
Hence the title of this thread - there is such a thing as the spirit of the game which Furyy seems to have lost sight of - if he ever had it. This is no whine or greed gripe - if his GM had told him to hand it over, and he had done, I would have given it to the guild. I don't need GoLM and don't want it - and the same goes for the attitude and behaviour of players like him. We can well do without.

 

[DirtyDiana]

That dude almost got me thrown out of guild the other day .. I was their with my ani .. all shroomed up ... then furry decides to start hitting harpies ... so i give him a sheild ... and then he starts pming me about stealing his camp, even though he wasnt on the island when i got their. After observing his actions for a few spawns a few days later it became aparent that this dude basically .. sits in the water off the island .. and appears to start killing harpies when someone arrives and firsts of all asks for invite for ench, even though he already has it. He got pissed at me the other day i think cos when i saw him i offered him a /bg invite rather than a /g invite. Oh well.

 

[mercury]

...so it seems he already has this arti and has been farming it. His GM said he'd been shown an activated arti, said to be the one he stole from me. Now I realise it might not have been. Tx for confirming what I already suspected.

 

[DirtyDiana]

np, the arti dropped for me that evening, but ive been popping along occasionally to try get one for my mana menta, hence i was able to observe his actions. He seems to tag up with that petspammer dude recently. Petspammer seems a nice guy though, he asked me if i had anyluck and if i knew when i was going to move, i told him when i expected to leave and he logged. Returned just as i was about to go. So petspammer nice gal/bloke, that furry dude not so nice gal/bloke.

 

[Stealthershar]

Just reading the about this and talking to You ingame about it. I think there talking rubbish about not being able to camp unsparned artifact`s. This is tamtamount to stealing. You wouldn`t put up with it in real life on say a fruit machine, You been on it for a while and why your there someone come`s along and put cash in and win the jackpot while your on it.

they should have artifact take off them and band from game for a while.

 

[mercury]

..well, I would agree with that - they obviously would not. In all the years I've played this game I have never even come near to contacting GoA over another player's behaviour. I have now.

Yup, DD I've seen Petspammer there - he was there the first coupla times I visited the Island - I just went away and left him to it, cuz I thought that was how it was done here as elsewhere.

 

[Alan]

If you can get the first hit in after camping an arti then legaly its yours and GoA will strip them of the artifact and slap them on the wrist.

And I hate to say it, but if youve been camping an arti and someone runs in at the last and completes the encounter name and shame, I'll gladly boot them from any raid - see how they like it.

 

[Solari]

If you can get the first hit in after camping an arti then legaly its yours and GoA will strip them of the artifact and slap them on the wrist.

And I hate to say it, but if youve been camping an arti and someone runs in at the last and completes the encounter name and shame, I'll gladly boot them from any raid - see how they like it.

Imagine if he ninja's a .10 step or so

 

[Leathas]

there isn't such a thing like "I camped this spot since eternity so arti is mine,fuck off",get over with it first.Person who gets the first hit on a mob is the owner of the artifact if he survives from the combat.

just wanted to add this sidenote.

 

[Alan]

Imagine if he ninja's a .10 step or so

a BG starts an encounter - an individual outside the BG completes it... mmm i see a huge ban stick inc

 

[Bluevixen]

I don't need GoLM and don't want it - and the same goes for the attitude and behaviour of players like him. We can well do without.

So why camp it for days then? Just to stick on your CM?

 

[mercury]

So why camp it for days then? Just to stick on your CM?

a. don't have a cm and what if I did? Now have a guild CM and might have wanted to sell it from there. Trading is a legit part of the game, you know. In any case the arti thief had no idea what I wanted.

b. it was freely available and I thought Id like to do it. You have a problem with that? If these things pop and no-one farms them it can mess up the respawn timer.

 

[mercury]

Person who gets the first hit on a mob is the owner of the artifact if he survives from the combat.

If that's not a load of crape then it ought to be. If the concensus is that that is ok conduct, I pity any group waiting for an arti mob that has a solo hanging around. You reckon he can just barge in and take over? Try it sometime.

 

[mercury]

And I hate to say it, but if youve been camping an arti and someone runs in at the last and completes the encounter name and shame, I'll gladly boot them from any raid - see how they like it.

Oki - his/her character name is Furyy (Celtic Leaf Army) and that's exactly what was done to me. My main point is that him and his GM seem to think it's acceptable.

Merc Lvl 50 Champ R3L3 ML0​

GM Arcane Darkness​

 

[Leathas]

look,I added survive from combat there,Nobody would try soloing danos.lets set up a scenario :

Some guy with level 95 equipment(well,you asked for the stupid scenario,sorry mercury) hanging around danos spot solo,meanwhile some other people(preferably animist army I should say) setting up their shrooms.Meanwhile,our level 95 friend goes and pulls danos solo while animists are setting up,then an arguement starts >>

--Why are you pulling?
--Why shouldn't I?(Hi to Cyberia's Russian friend !)
--Can't you see us camping the spot?
--There isn't such a thing like camping,get over with it.
--but,QQ irl we won't let you join our arveear groups ever again !
--Who cares,it isn't against eula,coc,rock etc.


not many people around me(excalibur/hib people,people who has 6-7 accounts everywhere(thanks to account sharing)) follows your "ethics" rule,sorry.In that case,neither should I,It is a piss to take,not many people would like to live in such a community,glad I'll be done with this game soonish so I won't have to act like a git towards people just because everyone else is doing same to me.


however,if animist army have hit the danos first and our lvl 95 dude attacked the mob later,that would've been illegal.

And yes,people "stole"(or whatever you wish to call it) nailah camp from my eld back then,when I told them "wth,what are you doing?we'r camping here",they just didn't care and killed the mob,right after that I told them that it was illegal(nuh huh) but in return,they happily answered that "want us to call a gm?this isn't in coc-eula"(this has been spammed 3-4 times in my chat window).So I don't have to try it,as it has been tried on me in the past


well,english is not my primary language,so forgive me If I've done any mistakes

 

[Tallen]

Welcome to the argument that killed off DAoC, the ToA artifact greed. It basically boils down to this.

Can you camp a mob?

Yes, you can camp a mob, but this gives you no right to the mob when it spawns, it simply means that you will be there when it pops and so have a good chance of killing it before anyone else shows up.

Is it right for a player to turn up and kill an artifact mob that has been camped by another player for XX hours?

Yes. Not all players have the time to camp a spawn, by your logic unless they spend a daft amount of time ingame sat at a spawn point, they will never get any contested artifacts. There is no queue, there is no reserve, first one to kill it wins, thats all there is too it. I see no reason why casual players should be penalised simply because they can only play 30-60 minutes a week, do you?

Is it ethical or polite to run in and kill a mob that another player had obviously been waiting for for several hours?

No, but that does not mean there is anything actually wrong with it.

Is it ethical to "steal" a camped mob simply to sell the artifact?

No, but as everyone does it, it is an accepted practice. To get other rare artifacts, you may need the kind of cash you can only get from selling other artifacts. Blame the economy and the small number of players who can farm the very rare artifacts and set inflated proces that means the rest of the economy must follow suit.

It boils dopwn to one thing, greed. This is the legacy of ToA.

 

[mercury]

not many people around me(excalibur/hib people,people who has 6-7 accounts everywhere(thanks to account sharing)) follows your "ethics" rule,sorry.

Tx for the contribution. Dont care about the perfect English. long as I can follow what you say.
And from the feedback I've had about this, it would appear you're just plain mistaken. Many people DO like to respect others and their intentions, do not jump queues and do NOT behave like gits. Fortunately for all of us you, and players who think like you, are in the minority. Don't want to get pious, cuz Im not that way inclined but the way to behave, imo, is in the quote which starts 'Do unto others...' and all that.

HF wherever you go, but I don't think you'll be greatly missed.

 

[Righthandof]

That dude almost got me thrown out of guild the other day .. I was their with my ani .. all shroomed up ... then furry decides to start hitting harpies ... so i give him a sheild ... and then he starts pming me about stealing his camp, even though he wasnt on the island when i got their. After observing his actions for a few spawns a few days later it became aparent that this dude basically .. sits in the water off the island ..

omg, he doesnt want to die in the 2-3 mins afk because of the birds so he sits in the water, right at the edge of the island. if you take a minute before shrooming up and look around you'll notice him. so, basically, you just admitted he was there first. -and by a later post

np, the arti dropped for me that evening, but ive been popping along occasionally to try get one for my mana menta, hence i was able to observe his actions

you just admitted you got the golm, and not him.
so overall you stole golm from a guy who camped it earlier than you. congratz on still flaming.

...so it seems he already has this arti and has been farming it. His GM said he'd been shown an activated arti, said to be the one he stole from me. Now I realise it might not have been. Tx for confirming what I already suspected.

nop, he didnt have the arti, a day before that incident of yours Dirtydiana/Dirtyfcker stole it from him, and also Petspammer stole it too that day with the same method as Dirtyfcker.

oh and yes, ive shown my gm a shiny new lvl 0 golm artifact that night, because i had just activated it. dont you think i could have lvled golm to a bit higher lvl if i had been using it for more days?(approx it lvls 1 lvl/2 orange mobs)

this is the real story, now judge if you want.

 

[Leathas]

I am aware of that I won't be missed,thanks for the community who made me act this way by the way.

 

[Mastade]

The spirit of the game what regards camping artis, stealing artis whatever, died when ToA came

ppl figured out that it wasn't illegal to rush in and kill some mob that a guy has been camping for quite some time. So ppl started to do so and unfortunately others have been "forced" to do the same.

 

[mercury]

Is it right for a player to turn up and kill an artifact mob that has been camped by another player for XX hours?
Yes.

No. IMO and that of a number of other 'victims'. If yoiu're right, why is there so much said when it happens?

Is it ethical or polite to run in and kill a mob that another player had obviously been waiting for for several hours?

No, but that does not mean there is anything actually wrong with it.

Yes there it does. If its unethical then there is something actually wrong about it, or it would not be distinguishable from other conduct.

It boils down to one thing, greed. This is the legacy of ToA.

No it isn't - at least it wasn't apparent until I came back to Hibernia on Excalibur. It seems to be just a few underhand individuals here who have failed to grasp the spirit of the game. From the way you argue, I'm afraid I include you in with them - condoning such behaviour and saying nothing is, frankly, not good enough. Try it on Prydwen and you'd be soloing with an empty chat screen until you got fed up and moved to EQ2.

 

[mercury]

omg, he doesnt want to die in the 2-3 mins afk because of the birds so he sits in the water, right at the edge of the island.

a. They'll get him even there. He's not hiding from the harpies.

b. He certainly wasn't there when we arrived just before the incident I'm on about. I've no idea what happened earlier, so can't comment, except to say he's using his being screwed to screw somebody else.

c. The judgement is becoming fairly clear - he's let his greediness overcome his sense and will probably continue to do so. It won't stop me from enjoying the game. By me and alot of others he'll be simply ignored, as such people often are irl.

Hib Excal : Merc Lvl 50 Champ R3L3​

Co-GM Arcane Darkness​

 

[Righthandof]

a. They'll get him even there. He's not hiding from the harpies.

b. He certainly wasn't there when we arrived just before the incident I'm on about. I've no idea what happened earlier, so can't comment, except to say he's using his being screwed to screw somebody else.

c. The judgement is becoming fairly clear - he's let his greediness overcome his sense and will probably continue to do so. It won't stop me from enjoying the game. By me and alot of others he'll be simply ignored, as such people often are irl.

a. they wont get him there. trust me, i have a purpose why waiting there.

b. no, you werent there. but after getting 2 times overtaken his camp and defeating golm, he decided not to care about unwritten rules, like nobody does.

c. that is your judgement. and you're pretty involved in the story so every real judges would say youre not neutral. but feel free to ignore.

ps.i wouldnt speak about irl if you camp an arti for days

 

[Maoni]

Oki - his/her character name is Furyy (Celtic Leaf Army) and that's exactly what was done to me. My main point is that him and his GM seem to think it's acceptable.

cba to read all replies here but...
1: Even tho you think its wrong, the coc isnt on your side here. What you should do, instead of badmouthing a player and drag a whole guild in it while you are at it, is use the feedback form and send a complaint to mythic asking them to rewrite the coc. Its a harsh answer but its facts....

2: I do agree however that people should try to be respectful to each others in various ways tho there is some thing that can be very frustrating - Arties that are 24/7 camped like golm and so on.....those arties make some of us think like "whatever another camper...there is always a camper here" or something similar. Same thing here, should use feedback form and try to get mythic to change the poprate of golm or something.

 

[statued]

GOA are responible aswell tbh . they must have realised when u make mobs that have a such a long spawn time and nearly impossible drop rate (such as golm) of course people cba and WILL steal it.


lets say you go to golm spot, theres 1 person camping and they golm mob pops....u realise ok i can start killing mob asap and have a chance to get arti...who cares its worth loads and rare droprate this is a chance i prolly will never get again....


im not sticking up for this guy that stole ur arti. infact i despise any1 who would see a spawn capped and kill it when it pops regardless of what CoC says

 

[Tallen]

Never have I been so badly misquoted.

Amazing, if you hack up someone's post and edit it a lot, removing half the text, changing the context and putting a spin on whats left, then you can change the origional meaning, thanks for the misdirected misquote mercury.

Also, if you are going to change the context of a post, at least TRY to make the point based on what you are quoting, you have quoted me and then gone off to rant about something totally unrelated.

If you have to stoop to this to make a point (and you dont actually make any point by the way, save for some vain attempt to flame-bait and character assassinate me for something i didnt even mean), then im sorry, but you lose any credibility you may have had.

I look forward to your efforts on ripping up this post as well

 

[Fyric]

the CoC states that the first person to attack a mob and survive "owns" it, if someone runs in, attacks the mob before you do and gets the arti its perfectly legal and theres nothing that can be done about it

 

[mercury]

Never have I been so badly misquoted.

I misquoted nothing. All the text is taken verbatim from your original. All I did was remove some of the 'amplification' and padding, and I don't believe in doing so I spun it in any way different from your intention.

I prefer to disagree with what you are actually saying - it falls on its own without my having to alter it.

 

[Leathas]

Never have I been so badly misquoted.

Amazing, if you hack up someone's post and edit it a lot, removing half the text, changing the context and putting a spin on whats left, then you can change the origional meaning, thanks for the misdirected misquote mercury.

Also, if you are going to change the context of a post, at least TRY to make the point based on what you are quoting, you have quoted me and then gone off to rant about something totally unrelated.

If you have to stoop to this to make a point (and you dont actually make any point by the way, save for some vain attempt to flame-bait and character assassinate me for something i didnt even mean), then im sorry, but you lose any credibility you may have had.

I look forward to your efforts on ripping up this post as well

thanks to mercury im now an annoyance in hibernia too I guess,you should read some books and try understanding sentences as a whole mercury.

 

[mercury]

the CoC states that the first person to attack a mob and survive "owns" it, if someone runs in, attacks the mob before you do and gets the arti its perfectly legal and theres nothing that can be done about it

Oki, lets turn this on its head. Say you've camped a mob for a few hours. Along comes a guy and jumps in and hits it first. You then hit it and eventually the arti falls to you. The implication of what you say the CoC intends is that the camper is now at fault and must hand it over. Do I interpret this correctly? If so it's patently unjust and, as suggested elsewhere, the CoC needs amending.