News Knife crime

[Access Denied]

Clicky

Read the last bit, or if you can't be bothered I'll quote it here:

Evidence gathered as part of the inquiry also found that violent DVDs and video games have a negative influence on those who watch and play them. It said the games increased a person's predisposition to be violent by some 10 percent.

That is absolute bollocks. People are jumping on this films and games are bad bandwagon and every single one that does fails to recognise that if someone is by nature violent enough to commit crimes like stabbing someone it doesn't make a jot of difference whether they watch violent films or play violent games. Having been in any number of fights I'm not what you'd call a pacifist and I've watched slasher movies and I've played the GTA series and such games, get this, I've never stabbed anyone in my life. Well there was this one guy that tried to mug me with a knife, he ended up with it in his own thigh but I don't count that =P

 

[DocWolfe]

The only people involved in this study were clearly chavs.

 

[Thugz]

That is absolute bollocks. People are jumping on this films and games are bad bandwagon and every single one that does fails to recognise that if someone is by nature violent enough to commit crimes like stabbing someone it doesn't make a jot of difference whether they watch violent films or play violent games. Having been in any number of fights I'm not what you'd call a pacifist and I've watched slasher movies and I've played the GTA series and such games, get this, I've never stabbed anyone in my life. Well there was this one guy that tried to mug me with a knife, he ended up with it in his own thigh but I don't count that =P

Think you are wrong there. There have been lots of instances where a game or video has initiated a 'attack' with a knife or gun. These people are predisposed to such crimes be it through their upbringing, their nature or their mental health at that time. If you take a million people then out of that number a few can be influenced to such a degree that they are a threat to society by watching video films or playing certain games. The number is low but not so low as it used to be. Reason being that there is now a 'knife weilding sub culture'. Don't forget a developing mind in such as a testosterone fueled teenager is open to all influences to a very high degree. Many are searching for a sense of identity. If they lack a strong father as a role model they are trying to find their own identity from other sources. Lets face it even playing Daoc for an old guy can make you seem as if you really are such a creation at times. For the mentally unstable the 2 - life and gaming - can become more entwined.

Video games, films, tv - bloody rap music etc have all been a real bad influence on society. Marvellous though they are for educating the world there is now far too much importance put on cheap thrills, sex and violence. All these stimulations influence people to some degree.

YOU might be a balanced individual but there many that are far from it. Lack of education, disgusting and sometimes violent upbringing and many more negative pressures can create a person with hatred towards others. Don't take much to cause him or her to lash out.

One last thing - and it is linked. I was watching a wild life program about treating animals with problems. There was an ape that had been badly treated. Stuck in a cage all his life in some apartment believe it or not. This ape was a fully grown male of quite a number of years. He hadn't interacted with other apes at all. The animal phyciatrist (think she was that) eventually brought a tv and video player to his new cell where he was being treated. She showed him other apes in a family environment and he watched these tapes and learned from them. She was also concerned whether or not he would react violently to these other apes. Thankfully he didn't. That about sums it up if video tapes can influence an ape then they are quite capable of influencing us too.

I could go on and on about this but it is very much accepted that the tv, video games etc DOES influence people's behaviour. Bout time something was done about it too - big time!

 

[tris-]

Ive consumed violent media for the last 15 years or so (since I was a very young kid) and I have never

attacked someone
been attacked by someone
contemplated stabbing anyone

IT may influence behaviour in people are predisposed to being maniacs, much like cannabis can affect people predisposed to mental issues etc.

 

[Thugz]

IT may influence behaviour in people are predisposed to being maniacs, much like cannabis can affect people predisposed to mental issues etc.

But isn't that the point really? By showing such material to certain people we are doing nothing more that throwing fuel on a fire. Why do it? We could all still have a great time and watch marvellous films and play wonderful games without all the over the top nastiness.

The other thing is we could test everybody to see who is predisposed to violence from watching these films - and bloody well shoot the lot of them! I getting into my stride here now. There are quite a few others I would like to shoot too come to think of it! If only I had one of them guns from Sniper Elite I was playing the other night!

 

[tris-]

Maybe you could, but people such as me who do not have mental dispositions still enjoy violent media.
By the sounds of it and you wanting to shoot people who have mental issues, maybe you have been affected by violent media your self.
What you seem to be suggesting is some kind of complete state control over what we could consume in terms of media, and Im not ready to live like they do in Equilibrium or North Korea.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Opening Poster

I agree that continued violent media does not necessarily make people violent.

However, exposure to graphic violence or violent media does gradually desnsitise you, removing the "shock" aspect from violence by gradual continued exposure. Much the same as water lapping at a brick wall will gradually erode it.

I speak from personal experirence having worked in a morgue for 9-10 months as a student. You get desensitised really quickly to dead bodies, and some quite horrific injuries (decapitations, rotting corpses, child's bodies crushed almost flat etc).

I was noticeably harder to shock after just a few shifts there - becoming desensitised is a copeing mechanism to help the human mind and behavioural structure cope with highly unusual or stressful stimuli. 12 years on, i have no reaction whatsoever to even the most graphic of injuries.

The same process applies to movies when you watch things like Saw or Hostel, or when hacking dead bodies up or beating people with their own limbs in a video game. Granted it is much more gradual and can often take years due to the level of detachment provided by a screen and "fake" stimuli, but the process is the same.

It slowly decreases your ability to find things shocking or unpleasent, and in doing so makes it easier for you to break normal social taboos in certain ways and commit violence.

This does not mean that you will become violent - a commited pacifist exposed in this way will still be a commited pacifist. If you already have violent urges that you restrain daily because they are unpleasent or shocking however, you are much more likely to act on them after becoming desensitised.

The censors as usual, have got the cart before the horse here!

 

[CorNokZ]

Same as tris-

Altho I have contemplated stabbing Drogba...

 

[Thugz]

Trouble is with most of your comments you are basing your assumptions subjectively and not objectively. Just because YOU don't feel you want to stab someone it doesn't mean that others don't. The question really wasn't about whether YOU would react in a certain way but that SOME would. If you consider it in such a way then I am pretty sure you could think of a few friends or some enemies even - bullies - that could be. Some questions are not all about YOU you know - think of others and spread those brain cell wings!

Eh you don't want to stab me now do you?

 

[Bugz]

Unfortunately legislation works on protecting the minority, even if the majority are fucked because of it.

 

[tris-]

Trouble is with most of your comments you are basing your assumptions subjectively and not objectively. Just because YOU don't feel you want to stab someone it doesn't mean that others don't. The question really wasn't about whether YOU would react in a certain way but that SOME would. If you consider it in such a way then I am pretty sure you could think of a few friends or some enemies even - bullies - that could be. Some questions are not all about YOU you know - think of others and spread those brain cell wings!

Eh you don't want to stab me now do you?

No im saying just because some are loopy does mean I should suffer by having certain forms of media made illegal.

 

[Thugz]

No im saying just because some are loopy does mean I should suffer by having certain forms of media made illegal.

That is a pretty selfish attitude though don't you think? Wouldn't you be a lot happier knowing that because of your little bit of lack of entertainment someone somewhere isn't being shot, stabbed, raped, murdered and so on?

Personally the less violence in our society the better. Unless we keep a tight rein on the way our country and society grows it could end up with dead bodies lying all over the place. You getting hammered or stabbed whilst going to the corner shop. One way or another we need controls put in place and if there is amble evidence to show that media in various forms is corrupting people's minds then it should have more control put in place. We ain't talking about Korea or some such country now just more censorship by thoughtful and educated people. Snuff films? Gratuitously violent films? These are banned now so censorship is already in place. There should be more programs on the TV if you ask me about decent people leading decent lives etc as a counter balance to all the crazy people in the soaps etc. All of these visual inputs affect people in one way or another.

Yah can't beat a bloody good rant on a forum to help get rid of that chip on your shoulder!

 

[Lethul]

Same as tris-

Altho I have contemplated stabbing Drogba...

That is more down to football than violent movies isn't it? I think everyone has had that thought

 

[Chronictank]

That is a pretty selfish attitude though don't you think? Wouldn't you be a lot happier knowing that because of your little bit of lack of entertainment someone somewhere isn't being shot, stabbed, raped, murdered and so on?

You do watch the news right? Should we ban that too "just in case" some psycho see's a report on a gunman going mad in a school and things "thats a good idea"

How about we go further and ban anything remotely to do with violence, sex or drugs (seeing as they are the social taboo's)
Because be under no illusion, that is exactly what you are suggesting by starting at cencorship here

As for the impressionable young argument Teens aren't suppost to be exposed to that sort of media, the only way they have access is through irresponsible parents. They have a adult or 18+ rating for a reason it is not the fault of the media industry that parents are too stupid/unwilling to say no to their kids

 

[Thorwyn]

How about we go further and ban anything remotely to do with violence, sex or drugs (seeing as they are the social taboo's)
Because be under no illusion, that is exactly what you are suggesting by starting at cencorship here

As for the impressionable young argument Teens aren't suppost to be exposed to that sort of media, the only way they have access is through irresponsible parents. They have a adult or 18+ rating for a reason it is not the fault of the media industry that parents are too stupid/unwilling to say no to their kids

Exactly!
Here in Germany, things are slowly getting out of hand. There was a fair some weeks ago, where they put up a medieval encampment for kids. Basically, they could sleep in tents, sit around the campfire, wear mediaval clothes and pretend to be knights, fighting with their rubber swords. The local government decided to cancel the event, because the "violent content might affect the children".

 

[Genedril]

My mother did her teacher training at some hole of a school in the Elephant & Castle area. Her tales of the 'knife sub-culture' there are truly horrific. There was at least 2 knife fights in the playground a week between 2 ethnic groups & the teachers had to go out en-mass to try & stop them but not get stabbed themselves (which apparently wasn't easy).

Now before someone says I'm saying that this is due to games/tv/films I'd like to point out that it's not because.....

This happened in the late 60's - to my knowledge the amount of computers in homes was roughly 0 (on a national average) and the number of slasher films that teenagers could see was .... roughly 0 as A. There weren't that many of them (Psycho is the closest I could come up with but that actually shows no stabbing in the original version) ; B. Getting into a cinema under aged was a damn sight harder than it is now; C. video/DvD was probably an apple in someone’s eye but it wasn't out there.

So - this stuff has always been around but now the media has something to hype it up with regards to it & link it to. But if this stuff happened before the so called 'triggers' were around / invented how can there be cause & effect??

I'd agree with TBS on the desensitisation & the effect that has (see famine fatigue etc etc) but unless someone was pre-disposed to do it anyway then all that happens is the man on the street thinks 'again??' (& the Daily Mail gets to write another outraged article about how things used to be better).

{edit} As we've moved onto 'who will think of the children' I'd like to add that surely it should be the parents that think of the children? But instead of standing up & shouting 'think of our children' they should get off the backsides & instil some morals & values into them. Preferably ones that do not include carry a knife & sticking it into someone else.

 

[Thugz]

I ain't talking about heavy handed censorship here. I am talking about finding out what the triggers are for setting some psycho off. Research should be carried out - extensively - on locating what creates such a person in the first place and then what is it about films, games etc that provide the last piece of the puzzle before they go off on some rampage. Removing that last part from films, games, tv programs whatever will help but ultimately we need to school everyone so that they are fairly well balanced at all times. The more info you have on such a subject matter the better to help create tools to combat it. The triggers are definitely in some of these media though. Removing the ones that are pressing too hard on these triggers can be justified. Knowing which they are in the first place will take some doing but hell some kids have gone over the edge on a number of occasions after watching some film or playing some game so it can't be that hard to work out. I ain't talking about full hog censorship but just considerate and responsible censorship. What about snuff films for instance? You want to be able to go pick up such in a store somewhere? Dog fighting - animal cruelty - beastiality (quite good some of this) - whatever. The more of this stuff that is on the market the more people take it up in real life. You have to draw the line somewhere.

By the way most of my comments are about true pychos. These triggers though do cause others to be more violent or more likely to be violent. Same thing really and needs addressing.

 

[fl3a]

i have watched a lot of violent movies. i have played a lot of violent games. i have read a lot of books with violent content. i havent ever stabbed, shot or beat up anyone, in fact i could say that all that violence content has shown me NOT to do it.
now if they say that i might be an adjusted individual with enough self control, education and brains to not go out shooting people because its so fun in GTA yet there are people who arent as well off as me and want to do exactly that. they say that the ones doing the murdering and stabbing are people who are mentally unstable and uneducated, wouldnt the problem be with the people doing it, not the materials they are exposed to?

violent material to people like that could be throwing fuel to the fire, but i believe if there are people that are mentally unstable enough to stab random people on the streets or shoot up a school, it doesnt really matter if they watch rambo use a .50-cal machinegun to shoot birmese soldiers to shreds or not. they are gonna do it anyway.

 

[Gorbachioo]

I'll probably get called a racist for pointing this out but i wonder how big a part of these incidents involve immigrants. Third world immigrants to be exact. Third world muslim immigrants to be even more exact...

The entertainment industry might have something to do with it but the real reason why these statistics are worse than what they used to be is because immigration in Europe is completely out of control.

Im fed up with people seriously pondering what is wrong with European youth these days when its so obvious what the real issue here is.

 

[Chronictank]

Im fed up with people seriously pondering what is wrong with European youth these days when its so obvious what the real issue here is.

Aside from basing your opinion on a very narrow focus then using (assumably you have done some research to support your argument) generic figures to justify that opinion ignoring the real picture it paints
A bit like.... the article quoted

Glass houses mate


(you will find knife crime has more to do with poverty than it has to do with place of origin, i am sure you can lookup the factsheet to proove me right/wrong)

 

[Marc]

Being caught with a knife should be a mandatory prison sentence of say 5 years. Currently there is no deterrant to carrying a knife.

 

[Chronictank]

Being caught with a knife should be a mandatory prison sentence of say 5 years. Currently there is no deterrant to carrying a knife.

I thought it was already 2 yrs?

 

[Marc]

I thought it was already 2 yrs?

It is?

 

[Gorbachioo]

Aside from basing your opinion on a very narrow focus then using (assumably you have done some research to support your argument) generic figures to justify that opinion ignoring the real picture it paints
A bit like.... the article quoted

Glass houses mate


(you will find knife crime has more to do with poverty than it has to do with place of origin, i am sure you can lookup the factsheet to proove me right/wrong)

Out of all immigrant groups muslims are always at the top of every crime statistic in Europe. I dont have any statistics in english at hand but we all know its true.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

I'll probably get called a racist for pointing this out but i wonder how big a part of these incidents involve immigrants. Third world immigrants to be exact. Third world muslim immigrants to be even more exact...

A comment re: this that occurs to me after a few beers with a mate last night. He's a serving copper in the S.Wales police, and we were talking about immigrant crime, which eventually got around to knife crime.

Now before anyone screams "racist" my mate is half & half (asian parents), so lets not focus in on the wrong issues here. His comment was that a truly staggering percentage of the knife crime incidents they get called to are between African males in the 18-40/45 bracket.

Not because they are "all criminals" but take the Somali's for example. They've come from a country with an incredibly violent recent history, where carrying a blade for self-defence is commonplace (or a firearm if you can afford it).

Not defending it, but there are deeper issues at work than just "people being violent by nature", nurture gets in on the act too.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Before games it was the TV.
Before the TV it was the radio.
Before radio it was violent books.

The "it's that things fault!" people always find something because they forget one major point; it might be your fault.

People are so reluctant to admit they are in the wrong, or that there might be a problem with fundamental principles of the society, that they find the most common similarity in people and attack it.

Peolpe who are mentally unstable might snap due to watching rambo III, but this means that the mentally unstable person shouldn't be given the chance to watch it in the first place.

This doesn't mean that normal people should be denied something.

It's as equally pointless as removing chocolate bars from schools because SOME kids may be allergic to nuts.

Ban video games, ban DVDs...then what? A lovely book bonfire?

Yeah you got it.

 

[Nate]

Aye Toht I totally agree, it is your fault all of this is happening. Even before you were born(I hope anyway, otherwise you are old!) and they didn't have TV or Radio they forgot the major point, it is Toht's fault.

They say people drink & drive all the time, causing a load of accidents..have they stopped people drinking?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Aye Toht I totally agree, it is your fault all of this is happening. Even before you were born(I hope anyway, otherwise you are old!) and they didn't have TV or Radio they forgot the major point, it is Toht's fault.

I'd rather have people blame me then some asinine reaspn like TV or games.

 

[fettoken]

They say people drink & drive all the time, causing a load of accidents..have they stopped people drinking?

Thats like a basic human right m8´s. It would be too obvious.

 

[Ezteq]

I have only ever stabbed someone (1 time) in self defence, i wasn't motivated by watching violent films (was only about 15 at the time) and theonly video games I'd played then were sonic the hedgehog and some stuff on my ancient atarii.

I was motivated by the fact that a pikey from the fair got in my tent at about 3am and was attempting something nasty, the first thing to hand was my fishing knife.

I will say that people who watch/paly violent media are probably more attracted to the concept of violence and cba repeating myself so see my post in the video game thread.