King Arthur: An Itallian????

[Graknak]

Just read an article in the newspaper about an Itallian historical guy saying that King Arthur resembles some noble Itallian guy during the same time.
If this "rumour" is in fact true, what will happen to British history as alot is based upon King Arthur as a briton and even worse, what will happen to DAoC and it's world?
Would Brittania be Italy instead? and then the Norse weren't even involved and instead Egyptians or Greek are the enemies with Minotaurs for Trolls ??

Just a tought, flame away

 

[kinag]

You are high on something, go to bed, you will feel alot better tomorrow...

 

[Archeon]

If i know my stuff and i'd like to think i do, most of the storys about King Arther are legend based on an anglo-saxon king of the same name.

Anyone claiming he was italian needs his head bashing with a very large stick

 

[Ottar]

> Would Brittania be Italy instead?

The world is rich with fascinating theosies, such as Atlantis = Antarctica and that Lenin was a mushroom. Also, the supposed prototype of Arthur Pendragon is presumed to be lived around 600 AD or so. Vikings and such came later. Also, it is highly unlikely there was many dwarves or trolls amongst them

Ottar

 

[hercules-df]

95% of the Arthur stories came straight out of celtic myths, they prolly linked him with italy since the dude who ruled at that time was considered the last roman king type chap

 

[kinag]

Forgot to add, Im very fond of The Arthurian Mythology so im reading alot of it..

And I found some very interesting information about "King Arthur",
"King Arthur" is a name of one person, wich was an heir of the britain throne many, many, many years ago..

I really wish i found that name again, I will continue searching for it, you may believe me or not, but its what I read

 

[Sortbane]

Hmmm... kinda jumping out of topic here, but Thor Heyerdal ( a norwegian adventurer that was behind the RA 1 & 2 expeditions ) had a project going on before he died..

The theory he was going after was digging deep in european myth and folklore and finally he came up with that Odin (Odeen, Othinn, etc, etc.) was a traveller from europe that brought with him the roman/old gods-worshipping and preached about that and due to his knowledge that the norse didnt know about he was named a god and the myth/folklore/ancient religion that the norse myth (midgard) was built upon was extremely similar to the myth of the romans.

I for one believe he's right in his inquiries (he was going to look upon it more but he died prematurley ) since the norse and roman mythology is so similar in many prospects and the rest is very easy to twist and turn into things related to the nation (just play a game of word twister, take a phrase, repeat it to the next and so on and so on untill the last person hears it... never the exact phrase that it all started with

But for Arthur to be Italian I cant believe, the name is anywhere hardly italian (just guessing here, it sounds like an arch-anglo-saxian name) so my guess is that the author of that document is just out after the controversy and the arguments provoced by such a claim.

oh, and what Archeon said

 

[Balbor]

i think in Norse myth Dwarves and Trolls are the same thing.

 

[granny]

Originally posted by Ottar
>and that Lenin was a mushroom.

Tell more!?

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Archeon
If i know my stuff and i'd like to think i do, most of the storys about King Arther are legend based on an anglo-saxon king of the same name.

Anyone claiming he was italian needs his head bashing with a very large stick

Wrong, Arthur was a British Celt warlord who helped stave off the Saxon invasions for a few years between 450-500 A.D. The legend of Arthur became polluted over time and he was eventually changed into a Christian Anglo-Saxon hero because that is what the public wanted and not some pagan.

 

[DocWolfe]

htf do they know what King Arthur looked like... did he leave his photo album behind in his tomb?

 

[old.Vae]

What Graknak is referring to is that there was an Italian nobleman who put a sword into a stone hence the connection with King Arthur's legends.

More info

What history seems clear about is that there was an Arthur or similar named person who did hold back the saxons for a while.

The popular book Le Morte D'Arthur may have drawn on this persona and the book is where a lot of the stories about King Arthur all originate.

On a side note it's always depressing seeing a film like First Knight where like a lot of Arthurian legend you have huge castles, knights, lances, plate armour and jousting when the reality would have been more likely wooden forts, little cavalry with maybe spears not lances, certainly no plate armour and chain/scale etc would have been very very rare. Leather armour would have been the norm.

Another link about history of Arthur I noticed when finding the above newspaper article

 

[SilverHood]

I recall reading that there was a real King Arthur who fought back the saxons during the dark ages

and a lot of Arthurian legend is pretty much bollocks , like Lancelot... fiction created by bards to spice up an old tale

 

[kinag]

Originally posted by SilverHood
I recall reading that there was a real King Arthur who fought back the saxons during the dark ages

and a lot of Arthurian legend is pretty much bollocks , like Lancelot... fiction created by bards to spice up an old tale

The real "King Arthur" fought against the saxons during The Dark Ages, and I really believe that Lancelot is a true story, due to betrayel.. Betrayel is something that happens often, and I think at the Dark Ages, Betreyal was something that happened due hard times, im convinced that its a real story, cause its understandable..

 

[cHodAX]

For an proper insight into the Arthurian legends read the following trilogy of books by Bernard Cornwell, they are fiction but rely heavily on exisiting texts from the period and try to dispel the myth's created by the Christian's that 'altered' the original tales.

The Winter King

Enemy Of God

Excalibur

Trust me these books will not disappoint as they are probably the finest books on the subject and tell a very compelling tale.

 

[Kharok Svark]

Intresting thread ... bizarre for BW ,, well ...

Between 200 and 1200 ad history was clouded, but that is the era you are talking about.

Britain was then, and continues to be Tribal ... during the era in question,many lords fought for the title of king, each as unworthy as the last.

If anyone can write fairly oooof 400 - 1400 AD many would read with interest, but sadly in those times you would on asking cone closer to sword then pen

 

[SilverHood]

the Crystal Cave by Mary stewart, and the 2 sequels also give a good impression of arthurian legengs scope, tho the books are mainly about Merlin

 

[old.Vae]

Originally posted by old.cHodAX
For an proper insight into the Arthurian legends read the following trilogy of books by Bernard Cornwell, they are fiction but rely heavily on exisiting texts from the period and try to dispel the myth's created by the Christian's that 'altered' the original tales.

The Winter King

Enemy Of God

Excalibur

Trust me these books will not disappoint as they are probably the finest books on the subject and tell a very compelling tale.

Agreed Chodax - the Bernard Cornwell books stay pretty true to the actual period and how life would have been. They leave out a lot of the more fanciful parts of the legends which are utterly misplaced in time.

 

[heilel]

I have read the Bernard Cormwall Arthur books too.
They're a very good.


But regarding the Origins of Arthur.
The most believable view to me is he was also thought to be a descendent of a Roman commander who was in Britain before the Romans left who learned roman warfare tactics stc.
Thus the unusual use of cavalry and so on.
It would also explain why he might look like this Italian guy.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Bah, it's a marketting ploy to get more Italians to play DAoC

-G

 

[Darkov]

Arthur was Celt long before the books/stories said he lived. Most of the tale was made up by a poet/bard with a lot taken from France to romance it.

I can imagine the Italians of the period influencing the story just like the French did, but the main character of Arthur was a Celt predating everything you read in the stories.

 

[scalpy]

Originally posted by old.cHodAX
For an proper insight into the Arthurian legends read the following trilogy of books by Bernard Cornwell, they are fiction but rely heavily on exisiting texts from the period and try to dispel the myth's created by the Christian's that 'altered' the original tales.

The Winter King

Enemy Of God

Excalibur

Trust me these books will not disappoint as they are probably the finest books on the subject and tell a very compelling tale.

Fantastic books, my all time favourites.

I seriously advise anyone with a slight interest in Arthurian/dark-age history to check them out.

Some people believe that Arthur was based on a chieftain from the West country/Wales. But I've never heard of him being Anglo Saxon, indeed he was a Briton who fought to repel the Saxons from further incursions westward.

 

[Peter North]

get a life you tossers

 

[Peter North]

How can King Arthur be an Italian???

Fuck me, get a grip you nigels......


Arthur lost his fortune in the movie Arthur 2 - on the rocks.

and lisa minelli sucked him off as well.... in the directors cut

 

[heilel]

Originally posted by Darkov
Arthur was Celt long before the books/stories said he lived.

If there was an Arthur, he was probably alive around the 6th to 7th century.

I can imagine the Italians of the period influencing the story just like the French did, but the main character of Arthur was a Celt predating everything you read in the stories.

As I said, he could have been a descendent of a Roman (Italian) or just a Romano/Brit who picked up some Roman warfare Techniques.

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by heilel
If there was an Arthur, he was probably alive around the 6th to 7th century.



As I said, he could have been a descendent of a Roman (Italian) or just a Romano/Brit who picked up some Roman warfare Techniques.

A number of ancient texts would indicate an date of 450-500 A.D. which is also backed up by the roman connecton. There were still many intact roman forts and towns in that period as well as decendants of the many romans that stayed after the emipre left the shores of Britain, which does make the roman lineage connection plausable.

The Roman tactics point is very interesting, the shield wall was used by British warriors for the first time during that period and that does show a very strong roman influence.

 

[Fafnir]

Originally posted by Sortbane
The theory he was going after was digging deep in european myth and folklore and finally he came up with that Odin (Odeen, Othinn, etc, etc.) was a traveller from europe that brought with him the roman/old gods-worshipping and preached about that and due to his knowledge that the norse didnt know about he was named a god and the myth/folklore/ancient religion that the norse myth (midgard) was built upon was extremely similar to the myth of the romans.

Well they showed a documentary on Swedish tv a few weeks ago about this, and this person/persons he thought was the source to the norse myths where from Russia, where he where conducting excavations before his death.

And the modern day Arthur legend is manily due to George of Mommoth or how you spell it. He wrote one of the first stories about Arthur. Dont remember it all. And heard something about Stonehedge, thats it was built by some German people who moved to the british isle.

And alot of the myths we have today are so polluted by christianity that many are wrong. The priests took the old folklore and twisted it around to serve their own cause.

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Fafnir
Well they showed a documentary on Swedish tv a few weeks ago about this, and this person/persons he thought was the source to the norse myths where from Russia, where he where conducting excavations before his death.

And the modern day Arthur legend is manily due to George of Mommoth or how you spell it. He wrote one of the first stories about Arthur. Dont remember it all. And heard something about Stonehedge, thats it was built by some German people who moved to the british isle.

And alot of the myths we have today are so polluted by christianity that many are wrong. The priests took the old folklore and twisted it around to serve their own cause.

Stonehenge pre-dates any major foreign arrival on the British Isles by almost 1000 years, it has been dated as constructed between 2800-2000 B.C. The architecture resembles many smaller stone circles found throughout Ireland which are from the same era, that would suggest the druids built them.

That is the same time as the egyptians were building the great pyrymids, Stonehenge isn't grand compared to the pryamids but the mathematics and engineering required are exactly the same.

 

[Fafnir]

Well the thing that i heard, was they had found some graves of some what they said where german people, close to Stonehedge. And dated theese graves to the same time as Stonehedge was built. Think it was on the Discovery Channel.

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Fafnir
Well the thing that i heard, was they had found some graves of some what they said where german people, close to Stonehedge. And dated theese graves to the same time as Stonehedge was built. Think it was on the Discovery Channel.

No, they found bottles of German beer buried near there. We Brits have always like those fine German beers.

There were druids throughout much of France and Belgium so it is possible there were also Germanic tribes that were involved with druids.